Farish Class 40

[Roy L S]

First of all Tom, I agree with much of what you've said. Presumably, though, making room for the speaker has altered the weight of the model, so I wonder if there is a reduction in haulage ?  I would like mine to pull 12-14 coaches up a 1/100 incline, which previous Farish Type 2 and 4s do without any angst. (I am DCC but have no interest in sound.)

 

That said, presumably the speaker can be removed and alternative weight added, without affecting future re-installation of said speaker. I'd need to look when I get mine, unless anyone can comment just now?

 

Having collected my "Mauretania" yesterday, I can say I am absolutely delighted with the model and for me having the loco fitted with a speaker and wired for DCC sound was great and I would like to see more models released that way. The speaker is fitted as part of the body (not the chassis) up in the internal roof area. I very much doubt there is any compromise as far as weight is concerned. What it does allow is an easy sound fit for the average modeller who wants it without the need to (say) sacrifice cab detail one end for a speaker space. I suspect the cost price of a sugar cube speaker is minimal (even retail they are only about £8 with VAT) and the wiring just a matter of designing the speaker into the circuitry rather than extra cost.

 

The model runs super smoothly and is extremely controllable. It looks exquisite.

 

Anyway, the body was slightly tricky to remove but once I had, fitting the Next 18 sound decoder (mine courtesy of YouChoos) was a two minute job. The sound is truly excellent (my wife says it's too noisy!).

 

So, my view is that Bachmann have done the right thing to suit all potential buyers. DC - just plonk it on the track and off you go, DCC buy a reasonably priced Next 18 decoder plug it in and go, DCC sound, spend quite a few quid more but sound fit just as easy.

 

Conclusion, all in with dealer discount I have a sound fitted Class 40 for a shade over £200. I am very happy and I can't see why it won't be just as satisfactory for all users regardless of their choice of operation.

 

A massive well done to Bachmann, an epic model!

 

Roy 

[dpgibbons]

Bachmann are to be commended for making sound both cheaper and more accessible. And this doesn't just benefit those who want noises - if they sell 10% of the production with sound that's an additional 5% to revenue which helps the costings for non-sound versions.  

[nharding99]

Picked up my Mauritania today. It's a very handsome beast. I do have a question and would like to compare with other DCC users...

 

I find that directional lighting works in one direction (F0) and the cab lighting comes on in that same one direction (F2). This is with a Bachmann Next 18 decoder fitted.

 

The service sheet states the following...

 

This locomotive comes with a DCC sound speaker fitted. If you wish to make use of the AUX 5 and 6 decoder outputs on a non sound decoder we advise you to remove the speaker first. This is because on a non sound decoder AUX 5 and 6 outputs use contact pins 7 and 16 but on a sound decoder pins 7 and 16 are the speaker contact pins.

 

So does that mean that I need to remove the speaker to get directional lighting working? I'm reluctant to do that because eventually I want to use sound.

 

Has anyone else seen similar behaviour?

 

Thanks

Nigel H

[nharding99]

Ok so to answer my own question... putting some insulating tape between the pcb connectors and the speaker resolves the directional lighting issue. Just for info, F0 controls forward marker lights, F1 controls the rear lights and F2 controls the cab lighting. There are 2 undocumented switches on the PCB that completely switch off all lighting at either end. I'm curious to know, what happens for a sound decoder? Are these lighting channels retained?

Edited October 20, 2017 by nharding99

[Padishar Creel]

Seems like I had a dud delivered. It has already been sent back for a replacment

The loco was delivered to a professional modeller for a respray to BR Blue. Painfully slow and on his test track and brand new 47 (not run in) placed directly in front did one and a half circuits to the 40's half a circuit (ie caught it up). Even after an hour in each direction the 40 struggled hard to move

And the body completely refused to come off.

 

To all those who have 40s, what is the speed of their model compared to other (more) modern BachFar locos (24, 25, 55 etc) and please be objectively honest

 

I hope the replacement is better

 

es grüßt

pc

[Roy L S]

Seems like I had a dud delivered. It has already been sent back for a replacment

The loco was delivered to a professional modeller for a respray to BR Blue. Painfully slow and on his test track and brand new 47 (not run in) placed directly in front did one and a half circuits to the 40's half a circuit (ie caught it up). Even after an hour in each direction the 40 struggled hard to move

And the body completely refused to come off.

 

To all those who have 40s, what is the speed of their model compared to other (more) modern BachFar locos (24, 25, 55 etc) and please be objectively honest

 

I hope the replacement is better

 

es grüßt

pc

 

 

I put the loco on my DC test track prior to chipping, forgetting a J39 was already on there. Yes, it started off slower than the J39 which rapidly caught it up, but it wasn't struggling to move and having run a couple of hours now is beautifully smooth and controllable.

 

The body is a very tight fit and not easy to get off. I found it easier to pop the ends using a tiny jeweller's screwdriver but that requires extreme care. I did manage to unplug one of the bogies inadvertently too and this made things easier, it just popped back in like other similarly designed diesels.

 

I did notice with the bogie off the loco has white nylon gears which is an improvement, but do I recall some comment that a few Class 20s so fitted also running a bit stiffly.

 

Roy

[scottystitch]

Having collected my "Mauretania" yesterday, I can say I am absolutely delighted with the model and for me having the loco fitted with a speaker and wired for DCC sound was great and I would like to see more models released that way. The speaker is fitted as part of the body (not the chassis) up in the internal roof area. I very much doubt there is any compromise as far as weight is concerned. What it does allow is an easy sound fit for the average modeller who wants it without the need to (say) sacrifice cab detail one end for a speaker space. I suspect the cost price of a sugar cube speaker is minimal (even retail they are only about £8 with VAT) and the wiring just a matter of designing the speaker into the circuitry rather than extra cost.

 

The model runs super smoothly and is extremely controllable. It looks exquisite.

 

Anyway, the body was slightly tricky to remove but once I had, fitting the Next 18 sound decoder (mine courtesy of YouChoos) was a two minute job. The sound is truly excellent (my wife says it's too noisy!).

 

So, my view is that Bachmann have done the right thing to suit all potential buyers. DC - just plonk it on the track and off you go, DCC buy a reasonably priced Next 18 decoder plug it in and go, DCC sound, spend quite a few quid more but sound fit just as easy.

 

Conclusion, all in with dealer discount I have a sound fitted Class 40 for a shade over £200. I am very happy and I can't see why it won't be just as satisfactory for all users regardless of their choice of operation.

 

A massive well done to Bachmann, an epic model!

 

Roy 

Many thanks for the description, Roy.

[meatloaf]

Ill be getting the sound fitted version i think.. makes the most sense as ive seen it for £179.99

 

Otherwise its £115 for loco and at least £20 for a decoder which is £135. Make it just £45 more for sound

[cs233]

The body is really good in respect of detail although, I am still not comfortable with obtaining any though due to the gap between the body and bogies, understand about clearance issues etc but maybe at the prices being requested today two versions should be offered one with enhanced clearance and a significant gap and another that more accurately reflects the prototype.

[Revolution Ben]

 

Hi cs233,

 

I am not sure the gap between the bogie and the nose is *that* overscale. I think the issue is that you can see daylight through it, whereas on the prototype you can't. It certainly won't put me off acquiring the model, though I may look at using a fine strip of black card to disguise the gap you mentioned.

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

[Roy L S]

I can honestly say that any "gap" is not an issue in the real world. On a layout, if there is one it really isn't noticeable.

 

I await my second green one very eagerly and it will have the same YouChoos/Next 18 combination as my D211.

 

I honestly think Bachmann have played a blinder with this loco, and it really does raise the bar. I only hope we don't have to wait too many years for the 8F!!

 

Roy 

[grahame]

Fred Hempsall's (NGS TLO) review of the class 40, which will be published in Journal 6/17 and is due to go to the printers soon, doesn't mention any issue with an large gap.

 

To be fair Bachmann have reduced the gap size from the early EP models to the production ones. I had a good look at them at TINGS when photographing them and any necessary gap between bogie and body is not obvious or excessive.

 

I just hope the class 319 will be as good and is produced quickly.

 

G.

[Crepello]

Hi cs233,

 

I am not sure the gap between the bogie and the nose is *that* overscale. I think the issue is that you can see daylight through it, whereas on the prototype you can't. It certainly won't put me off acquiring the model, though I may look at using a fine strip of black card to disguise the gap you mentioned.

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

I reckon you CAN see daylight between the body and bogies of a 40. There's a photo of 40106 (D200) in green on page 33 of Rail Portfolios no.1 with a blue DMU behind. You can definitely see the blue betwwn the 40's first powered wheel and the front of its nose. There's other shots in this book which show daylight. Obviously the daylight on the model is exaggerated to enable it to cope with train-set curves, but it certainly shouldn't put anyone off buying what looks like a superb model.

[DJM Dave]

If it helps any, either way (and please remember i have 2 on order) i was at the Midland Railway Centre a couple of years ago with a well known fellow from this parish and i took pictures of their 40 with a 50p piece balanced on the front of the buffer beam, and the gap was simply that, a 50p piece in height.

 

OK, so the Farish one does look a little too much of a gap, but i'd rather have that and fix it, besides it's a 'mother loving beautiful model' and oh that sound!!!

[The Pilotman]

maybe at the prices being requested today two versions should be offered one with enhanced clearance and a significant gap and another that more accurately reflects the prototype.

Two lots of tooling? Can't see that happening...

[Izzy]

Ill be getting the sound fitted version i think.. makes the most sense as ive seen it for £179.99

 

Otherwise its £115 for loco and at least £20 for a decoder which is £135. Make it just £45 more for sound

 

I have just discovered that there are two next18 socket versions on this thread , see my post #7

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/127492-testing-Bachmann-36-567-with-esu-53900-dcc-decoder-tester/&do=findComment&comment=2902139

 

and that there is the possibility that a plain/ordinary/vanilla decoder cannot be fitted if desired. Hope I'm wrong.

 

Izzy

[pauliebanger]

I have just discovered that there are two next18 socket versions on this thread , see my post #7

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/127492-testing-Bachmann-36-567-with-esu-53900-dcc-decoder-tester/&do=findComment&comment=2902139

 

and that there is the possibility that a plain/ordinary/vanilla decoder cannot be fitted if desired. Hope I'm wrong.

 

Izzy

 

Izzy,

 

Don't panic.

 

Whilst it is true that with Next 18 interface the speaker connections of sound decoders share the pin positions with AUX 5 and AUX6 of non-sound decoders, all that is required is to insulate the speaker connections or the pads they make contact with on the loco PCB (or preferably both). 

 

The model does not use AUX 5 or AUX 6 so functionality will not be affected. 

 

If you wish to add sound later, just remove this insulation and substitute a NEXT18 sound decoder.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

[Izzy]

Izzy,

 

Don't panic.

 

Whilst it is true that with Next 18 interface the speaker connections of sound decoders share the pin positions with AUX 5 and AUX6 of non-sound decoders, all that is required is to insulate the speaker connections or the pads they make contact with on the loco PCB (or preferably both). 

 

The model does not use AUX 5 or AUX 6 so functionality will not be affected. 

 

If you wish to add sound later, just remove this insulation and substitute a NEXT18 sound decoder.

 

Kind regards,

 

Paul

 

 Thank you Paul, that's reassuring to know. That simple isolation of the speaker feeds is all that is really required. Nothing too drastic.

 

Given the high quality of the sound files - going by the videos on youtube -  that are fitted into these two locos (which I think you may have been involved with), it does seem that obtaining the locos sound fitted is the best/cheapest option for those that can afford it.

 

My concern is in understanding the options open to DCC users such as myself who can't, if this kind of installation becomes the de-facto standard for future releases, which following on from the Castle it would appear it might be. I guess the same situation applies there as well, if they have speakers fitted as default, not sure about that.

 

regards,

 

Izzy

[Joseph_Pestell]

Modern business (as Hornby have been finding out the hard way) is all about managing inventory. Whether you are a manufacturer, wholesaler or retailer, having several variants of the same product makes managing inventory so much harder and that raises costs all round.

 

The issue of the "gap" might have been managed at the design stage with some sort of packing washer which could have been removed by modellers who could use wider radii curves.

 

But the whole DCC/sound thing is rather more complicated to provide for in a sensible way unless one has a good network of retailers with their own workshop capability to fit aftermarket parts.

[pauliebanger]

Modern business (as Hornby have been finding out the hard way) is all about managing inventory. Whether you are a manufacturer, wholesaler or retailer, having several variants of the same product makes managing inventory so much harder and that raises costs all round.

 

The issue of the "gap" might have been managed at the design stage with some sort of packing washer which could have been removed by modellers who could use wider radii curves.

 

But the whole DCC/sound thing is rather more complicated to provide for in a sensible way unless one has a good network of retailers with their own workshop capability to fit aftermarket parts.

 

Little Loco Company (0 Gauge Class 15) and Graham Farish (N gauge Class 40), have shown that, provided sufficient thought and planning is given during the design phase, (which you suggest could have been applied to 'the gap' issue) fitting sound retrospectively should be no more complicated than plugging in a sound decoder.

 

Although the companies involved each took a different route to achieve it, both of these models are fully equipped for eventual sound fitting across the whole range available - DC, DCC and DCC sound. Speakers and wiring is all in place to make it simple to install either during initial production or for the aftermarket sector.

 

It used to be that sound fitted r-t-r commanded a price premium far in excess of the cost of the decoders, speakers, and additinal production time used. That a GF model is available with a fully sorted sound package for premium of £20 less than the retail cost of the decoder is astonishing, even more so that the nature of the N gauge sector restricts the scope for amortisation.

 

It will be a red letter day when mainstream 00 gauge models embrace this concept fully too.

 

Someone posted earlier that Bachmann have played a blinder with the Class 40. I couldn't agree more (Though if it were my company, I would have released the sound-fitted version at the same time as or slightly in advance of the DC versions).

 

Some people will never want DCC or DCC sound, and that's fine, but if they ever dispose of models which are well known for being fully ready for either upgrade, the price obtainable will reflect this.

[TomE]

(Though if it were my company, I would have released the sound-fitted version at the same time as or slightly in advance of the DC versions).

 

The sound models are usually the last to make it to the shops, presumably because someone has to sit and stick all those little red 'DCC Sound' stickers on the boxes!

 

Tom.  

[TomE]

I notice this morning that the remaining 40's have slipped from OCT/NOV to NOV/DEC on the Farish website. 

 

Tom. 

[dpgibbons]

That a GF model is available with a fully sorted sound package for premium of £20 less than the retail cost of the decoder is astonishing

 

 

Not so astonishing when you consider that Bachmann's commitment to take the MX622N in volume enabled Zimo to cut its RRP by 33%, and that the cost of sound recording is the same whether you sell 100 or 1000 copies.

[pauliebanger]

Not so astonishing when you consider that Bachmann's commitment to take the MX622N in volume enabled Zimo to cut its RRP by 33%, and that the cost of sound recording is the same whether you sell 100 or 1000 copies.

 

You might not be so easily impressed, but I'm still astonished.

[John M Upton]

Is there any sign of the blue ones surfacing yet? They were supposedly incoming (as in loaded on the boat) some week's ago.