Classsix T Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 A peruse of John Hooson's excellent site reveals evidence of Tarmac and ex-Redland PGAs to Mark's Tey and ex-RMC JGAs too. Matt, if you've never visited before, put an afternoon aside mate! http://whitemaskmk2.smugmug.com C6T. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimleygrid Posted February 20, 2017 Author Share Posted February 20, 2017 Thanks for posting the link C6T, some cracking photos on that site. I especially liked these two; https://whitemaskmk2.smugmug.com/Trains/Essex-and-East-Anglia/i-sVvT73G/A https://whitemaskmk2.smugmug.com/Trains/Essex-and-East-Anglia/i-nNqx6Qb/A Interesting to see that PGAs were used on the Marks Tey to Hayes services. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 Hi YesTor, Something that we have been considering was offering data panel transfers as an after market product for those customers that would like to renumber their wagons. Subject to there being enough demand. This might be an alternative to offering different running numbers for those that are interested. I have just come back to this thread after losing my Internet connection for a while. I am interested in these wagons but don’t want a rake all with the same number. Is there any more news on the idea of providing transfers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Goldfish Posted February 20, 2017 Share Posted February 20, 2017 A peruse of John Hooson's excellent site reveals evidence of Tarmac and ex-Redland PGAs to Mark's Tey and ex-RMC JGAs too. Matt, if you've never visited before, put an afternoon aside mate! http://whitemaskmk2.smugmug.com C6T. Thank you. This gallery is my new favorite waste of time: https://whitemaskmk2.smugmug.com/Trains/Essex-and-East-Anglia/ I won't tangent this thread too much on its container content! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimleygrid Posted February 21, 2017 Author Share Posted February 21, 2017 I have just come back to this thread after losing my Internet connection for a while. I am interested in these wagons but don’t want a rake all with the same number. Is there any more news on the idea of providing transfers? Hi No Decorum, if there is enough interest then we would certainly consider offering aftermarket transfers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thrallwelder Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 Hi No Decorum, if there is enough interest then we would certainly consider offering aftermarket transfers. Hi How is the interest looking as regards pre ordering so far ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaGrange Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 £27 each is too much - why not offer 4 for £100? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Hi LaGrange the price of £27 is higher than the old school hoppers from the main manufacturers for sure but pretty much in line with the price of modern highly detailed wagons which our hopper is designed to be in league with. On first look £27 may seem steep but when disecting what you get on the model, the levels of detail, the seperate fittings, metal chassis for weight and what it takes to have them made, painted and packaged then things become a little more understandable. We originally intended these wagons to be in the £20 to £25 price range but the costs for production and first run quantities has meant that it really has to be £27 in order to get the wagon made. This price was not plucked out of the air to give us a fat profit but carefully weighed up to provide the best value for money we could achieve and enable our future models to be considered. We have tried very hard to resist dumbing down the model to cut costs as we believe that in order to get off on the right foot we need to set our stall out quality wise. We believe that it is much harder to convince customers that our next model will be better after a shoddy start than to convince people that you are a like minded modeller with an appreciation for high quality after a first release that accepts minimal compromise. Even with this mindset we are still being asked for more specification and less cost. I for one will choose to take that as a positive response to a wagon that has inspired people to want the best that a manufacturer can offer rather than accept what is currently on offer in the market. Sadly this doesn't come cheap. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 £27 each is too much - why not offer 4 for £100? Too much for your pocket doesn't translate into what people recognising fidelity will willingly pay, neither does such a flippant statement even start to approach what these two Gentlemen have, off their own backs, approached in terms of a project. I await your fine scale 4mm must-have, but cheap, project with eager anticipation. Harrumph, C6T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 £27 each is too much - why not offer 4 for £100? Adding a multi buy option might have some merit, especially as rakes will be needed for such wagons. However gripes about costs don't really add much to the conversion. Though I find them expensive, that is purely down to my own finances being very tight. But if they fitted my time and area I'd likely put money aside to get them as not much other options of them unless someone 3d printed them I guess, but then why duplicate a rtr product? Even then, 3d printed may well not be cheaper, nor would a mixed media kit probably with rising costs for everything these days. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Thanks Kelly, we understand tight budgets, I would be the first to admit that spare cash isn't that free to come by for me. As for 3D prints (ironically where we initially considered going with this product) they do work out very expensive. The two that we had done as samples to show you all our intent weren't even all of the parts that will be produced on the RTR model and they were still £80 each. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slg Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Hornby 3 pack Tarmac PGA £44.99 RRP original designed during the 80's and Lima PGA's average £10-12 on ebay also from the 80's Seeing as £14.50 would get you a 2nd hand Redland Hornby hopper on ebay code R026 which shows just how old that wagon is, it even has an old beatties sticker on it. So for £27 per wagon with what I would say is 5x more detail going into it, £27 is not bad going for an independent manufacturer. Even Bachmann ask £28.95 for its presflos and their about similar in size. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 Hi No Decorum, if there is enough interest then we would certainly consider offering aftermarket transfers. One and all, is there enough interest in transfers? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold BR Blue Posted February 23, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 23, 2017 I would be interested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 If it was a case of just the side panels I'd probably not be too fussed, but I note both the Redland and LaFarge liveries have the last two digits repeated on the ends (red stickers on the green and red stencil on the white by the looks of it). I'd certainly entertain a renumbering exercise if a sheet included these in addition to black numbers for the tops panels. The ROSCO plates are so small I'd overlook them. C6T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimleygrid Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 Part 2 of the Historical Train Formations Guide will be available soon. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimleygrid Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 Just stumbled across this photo with an interesting loco on the front, not what you would expect to see hauling such a working! 31423 by surfacestock, on Flickr 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbox321 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 On the issue of price - if like you say it needs to be £27.00, to cover the wagon, plus tooling cost for first run quantities -fair enough. But how about after that, for the original crowdfunders, for those who have bought say 5 or 7 plus, offer a 'crowdfunders' loyalty discount on future PGA based models, as they have already contributed to the tooling costs? Just a thought.... C. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazjones1711 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 In today's market £27 is not over the top in price , when a Heljan IGA Cargowaggon are a staggering £199 RRP but down to £145 on Hattons , i wish the project the best of luck along with the transfers which would an easier option to do renumbering Regards Baz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus 37 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 I think what a lot of people are forgetting this isn't some model that you can phone up Hattons for on a Friday afternoon, order a whole rake of the things with a 15% discount and get them delivered by Yodel the next morning. These are a bespoke model that at the end of the day are being produced by two ordinary but very talented modellers. If you check out either Cav's or Alex's layout threads you will see that their attention to detail on their own projects is second to none. I know that this attention to detail will be applied to the production of these wagons and that these two guys will not be happy until they are 100% right. So for a couple of quid more than the bog standard releases from a certain manufacturer I believe we will get something very special indeed. My orders in and I just hope that they reach their target so the model can be produced. Marcus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Saunders Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 If anyone really wants these you must be prepared to buy now! In years to come you will regret it if they only ever have one production run and you will not be able to buy them for any price! Mark Saunders Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdw7300 Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 Hi Alex and Cav Been watching this thread for a while. Whilst I don't "need" any of these wagons for my layout I really want to show my support so expression of interest made for a couple of wagons. All the best 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YesTor Posted February 27, 2017 Share Posted February 27, 2017 (edited) The ladders will be plastic mouldings to get the profile more akin to the real ones and the walkways will be an etched insert for the grilles. I am waiting on the last parts of the 3D print to arrive and then I will put together the sample to look at. There are parts too fine to 3D print though so these will be fabricated where necessary to try to replicate what will be on the injection moulded version. Just returning to this earlier question regarding ladders/walkways, and I can see the reasoning behind it perhaps being preferable to create some of the handrails and framework using plastic, however I'm curious if you had considered etches for the actual ladders? Reasoning - in that plastic ladders are almost always far too thick, even on very recently produced models - I'm thinking of the Bachmann PCA tanker in particular and in fact any plastic laddering that I have ever seen on any model. The laddering on the PGA appears to be very, if not totally straight, so while I can understand the use of plastic if there are particular contours that need to be depicted that would otherwise be difficult to get right in metal, I would have figured that a straightforward straight-runged ladder might just as easily be reproduced as an etched piece, and in doing so give a far more refined appearance, as per the prototype, than any plastic laddering could ever achieve? https://www.flickr.com/photos/steam60163/5704689446/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/tibshelf/15887726344 In short, the laddering on this type of wagon is perhaps one of the most noticeable features, so it would be a shame if the end result didn't appear quite right. I say all of this as simply by modifying the existing Hornby PGA with the etched kit from A1 Models the appearance is improved drastically. Of course, I am more than happy to be pleasantly surprised, but in fairness I am yet to see truly convincing plastic laddering anywhere, period. Edited February 27, 2017 by YesTor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimleygrid Posted February 27, 2017 Author Share Posted February 27, 2017 Historical Trains Formation Guide Part two - The Post-Privatisation period now available in the information section of the website: http://www.cavalexmodels.com/information.html We hope that you find this useful. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaGrange Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 Too much for your pocket doesn't translate into what people recognising fidelity will willingly pay, neither does such a flippant statement even start to approach what these two Gentlemen have, off their own backs, approached in terms of a project. I await your fine scale 4mm must-have, but cheap, project with eager anticipation. Harrumph, C6T. Well at least you read my opinion, which Im entitled to. Too bad you disagree with it, but there are no King Canutes in this world 4 for £100 or 8 for £185 is a better sell. Not everyone wants to buy a single wagon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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