Building the 'Chocolate Zephyr' (GT3)

[cctransuk]

John,

Took me a bit to find them in his catalogue,(weinert-modellbau.de) (forgot what handrail knobs are called in German.....). Anyway, they are catalogue number 8463. One sprue is 20 knobs. Had some spares, so I attached a quick picture (excuse the quality, taken with the cellphone). The handrail stands 2mm off the body surface. They come with the handrail position orthogonal to the base plate, but careful twisting by opp degree won't destroy them. See photo.

They take Gibson .35mm wire.

 

In the other photo I hold them against GT3's cab edge, size seems ok. Maybe a wee bit oversized. Good enough for me. But probably a new sheet metal cab seems unavoidable. Eagerly watching what you all are doing with it.

 

Anyway, Weinert doesn't sell directly, so googling for them directly should find you a dealer, maybe even in the uk.

 

Hope this helps.

 

C,-w

 

Thanks for going to so much trouble - they do look to have possibilities.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Horsetan]

There used to be a Banbury-based supplier of Weinert parts, called Three Point Five, but I don't know if they still operate.

 

The Wagenwerk.de online shop is probably the easier option these days - Weinert part ref. 8463 is 8.90 Euros plus post for a pack of 20, and PayPal payment is available

Edited October 17, 2016 by Horsetan

[cctransuk]

Ten days ago, we left the tender looking substantially complete - but, to my eye it didn't look quite right. Study of the photos in my archive; especially the movie stills posted recently, indicated a number of detail errors.

 

Most obviously, the tender body was too tall by 1.5 - 2.0mm. This was easily dealt with by removing the excess depth from the bottom edges of the tender body moulding, and reprofiling the lower edges. I find that emery boards, as used by the ladies to reprofile their talons, are excellent for use with resin and polystyrene, and they can be bought in bulk at pound stores etc.

 

The trim mouldings on the tender body - the ridges that carry the lining - had noticeable curves along their length, so I scraped them off; straightened the top of the body sides with an Olfa 'scrawker'; reprofiled the tender top edges; and replaced the ridges with 1.0 x 0.375mm. Evergreen strip. The centre transverse rib that runs across the roof was in the wrong place, and I could not find evidence for the front one; all were too heavy, so off they came. Replacements for the centre and rear ones were fitted using the smallest Evergreen rectangular section.

 

The train heating boiler top moulding was filed flush with the roof, and the etched replacement was glued in place.

 

 

The footsteps / handrails moulded into the body sides were in the wrong place, and were the wrong size. I decided that the easiest way to deal with this was to cut out a 14 x 22mm. section of each bodyside, centred on the correct location for the steps. Two 14 x 22mm. sections of 1.0mm. plastic card were marked out, within which I also marked the step locations. The rectangular step recesses were cut out of the plastic card and tidied up with miniature files, after which the replacement panels were cut out and slightly curved to match the profile of the tender body mouldings. The prepared panels were bonded to 14 x 22mm. backing pieces of 1.5mm. plastic card, also curved to profile.

 

 

When the laminated panels had dried, the centre grab rails were added to the step recesses using 1.0 x 0.375mm. Evergreen strip, and the top recesses had the vertical grabs added from the same material. Above the step recesses, filler panels of 0.125mm. plastic card were attached.

 

 

When all was completely dried, the replacement panels were glued into the cut-outs in the moulded tender sides, leaving them a tiny bit proud. All joints etc. were filled with Milliput and left to harden overnight. Next day, the tender side panels were rubbed down so that the replacement sections were completely flush with the rest of the sides.

 

The etched brass window surrounds were glued in place, and the moulded openings filed out to match the etchings. A thinned cast whitemetal British standard gangway was glued to the tender rear and the etched cover fitted; a moulded Pullman gangway was fitted to the front of the tender.

 

 

Finally, the Gibson tender axleboxes / springs, together with vacuum and steam pipes, were glued in place.

 

That, I thought, was the tender complete apart from fitting a functional coupling, but I've just noticed that I need to add what I take to be the two circular gauges on each lower side. These will be made from brass tube, with Evergreen plastic rod inserted inside.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited October 18, 2016 by cctransuk

[cctransuk]

Sorry - it's been quite a while since the last update; too many other (non-railway) things to attend to !!

 

Anyway, as a result of several shortish modelling sessions, GT3 now looks like this :-

 

 

 

 

Very noticeable is the two-tone loco body, the result of splicing parts of two mouldings together to make good the 4mm. short length of the moulding as provided. I think that the result is well worthwhile, giving the long, sleek look of the prototype as opposed to the slightly 'dumpy' appearance of the standard moulding.

 

I was fortunate enough to be able to barter for the second moulding, but in the absence of a spare body I would cut the moulding in two; trace the outline of the body section onto 2mm. thick plastic card; and cut out two U-shaped packing pieces.

 

If the packing pieces were slightly undersized on the outside and oversized on the inside one could be superglued to each body section, and the two extended body sections could be fixed together with solvent, in true alignment. The external shallow gap would be filled with Milliput, sanded back flush; and the interior ridge would be cut back flush with a burr mounted in a mini-drill.

 

 

This view from below shows several recent additions.

 

The tender has had a NEM pocket fitted together with a loco / tender drawbar. The latter is soldered to a length of 2.0mm. ID tube and is secured with a 10BA screw tapped into the frame spacer. I have also used a micro plug and socket to electrically connect the loco to the tender, which latter has had tread-scratcher pick-ups fitted.

 

 

 

 

 

The front bogie has been fitted with its outside frames, which carry a NEM pocket.

 

 

 

The outside frames are fixed to the lower plate of the bogie via 12BA countersunk screws.

 

 

The bogie mounting / springing arrangements comprise a 10BA screw soldered to a frame spacer, onto which fits a spring attached to 2mm. ID top-hat bearings top and bottom. The lower bearing is actually two top-hats fixed flange-to-flange so as to slide in the slot in the lower bogie plate, and the bogie is retained by a 10BA washer and nut.

 

Body to chassis fixing is via 10BA screws tapped into the body via plastic card / section packing at the rear, and above the rear axle of the bogie.

 

The mechanically complete loco runs very smoothly indeed - most gratifying !!

 

Next - assembling and fitting the body detail etches, I think.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited December 23, 2016 by cctransuk

[sej]

Hi John, that's looking very nice indeed. Did you have to modify the chassis etch to fit the lengthened body moulding?

 

Cheers

Simon

[cctransuk]

Hi John, that's looking very nice indeed. Did you have to modify the chassis etch to fit the lengthened body moulding?

 

Cheers

Simon

 

No - the chassis is scale length; to be honest, that's what alerted me to the under-length body moulding. I suspect that this error may have been introduced in order to fit the body onto the proprietary chassis for which it was originally designed.

 

I omitted to mention that the cab moulding is secured to the main loco body by a brass peg through the front of the roof and two 12BA screws, which pass up through the floor into the thickness of the cab back moulding.

 

..... and rubber British Standard corridor connections have been substituted for the moulded ones, in the interests of accuracy and close-coupling.

 

Regards,

John.

Edited May 15, 2017 by cctransuk

[cctransuk]

It's long time since the last update, but progress has been steady.

 

GT3 is now operational - running nice and smoothly, with a functioning front air intake fan, and an operational bank of three mini-fans to replicate the sound of the prototype's turbojet engine.

 

https://youtu.be/fgSnR_f0hoQ

 

https://youtu.be/UHkL-lZL2RI

 

I'm pretty happy with the results; some trial and error with resistors might produce higher fan revs / higher pitched sound, but it'll certainly do for now.

 

I'll do a follow-up posting, with description and photos of the recent work, ASAP.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

PS. I'm disappointed with the sound volume of the Youtube clips - the files play much better on my PC. Is there any way of increasing the volume when uploading to Youtube?

Edited December 22, 2016 by cctransuk

[Mad McCann]

This is a hugely impressive job, John. You're setting the bar very high for the rest of us!

 

Dave. 

[jessy1692]

Excellent work, love the noise!

James

[natterjack]

I've just come across this thread- great work.

 

After some 7 years of off/on research I've recently started construction of a 7mm GT3 from my own drawings (using Skinley's originals a s a basis- themselves drawn up from EE supplied data).

 

Let me know if I can help with any details.

 

Les

[natterjack]

Just come across this thread- great work.

 

After some 5 years research, I'm just starting production of a 7mm GT3 so let me know if I can help with any drawings (essentially edited and more accurately detailed revisions of the Skinley drawings, themselves created from original data supplied by EE ).

 

Can you give a link to your fan motors?

 

Les

[cctransuk]

Just come across this thread- great work.

 

After some 5 years research, I'm just starting production of a 7mm GT3 so let me know if I can help with any drawings (essentially edited and more accurately detailed revisions of the Skinley drawings, themselves created from original data supplied by EE ).

 

Can you give a link to your fan motors?

 

Les

 

Les,

 

Currently in NZ - will contact you when I return to the UK.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[natterjack]

OK John- see if you can find out what's happening with the Dam Busters remake!

 

Les

[cctransuk]

Can you give a link to your fan motors?

 

Les

 

The gearbox motors for the front fan can be found at

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/DC-12V-200RPM-Micro-Speed-Reduction-Gear-Motor-with-Metal-Gearbox-Wheel-Shaft-/181981925719?hash=item2a5ef7d157:g:19QAAOSw5dNWi40G .

 

However, having had a good few weeks away from modelling, and particularly from GT3, I have come to the conclusion that the electronic bits and bobs must go.

 

The theory worked - the bank of mini-fans produced a believeable turbojet sound; the mini-gearbox motor drove the front fan at a visible speed, (if a trifle noisily); the bridge rectifier kept everything turning in the correct direction; and the ceramic resistor balanced the current draw nicely.

 

However, I became increasingly aware that GT3 stood out like a sore thumb because it sounded loud, and therefore quite realistic - whereas the rest of my loco fleet have been purchased, or designed and built, to be as quiet as possible. Certainly none of them sound like real steam or diesel locos.

 

Moreover, the front fan might have rotated in the correct direction and at a visible speed but, behind the grille, it could not be seen !

 

So - out it will all come, with some of the vacated space being filled with lead. It was an interesting experiment; (like GT3 itself); and I relearned much of my school physics in the process, but it was a bit of a vanity project, really.

 

I have just completed a checklist of work outstanding before I can start painting; as follows.

 

Cab interior

 

Backs to front step recesses

 

Horns - front & rear

 

Handrails

 

Glazing

 

Windscreen wipers

 

Front guard-irons

 

Lower splashers and fit brackets / pipework above

 

Loco / tender pipes

 

Tender corridor connector suspension & locking handle

 

I intend to work through this list methodically, so that the project can have an end in sight; open-ended schedules often invite prevarication and distractions in my case !

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited March 14, 2017 by cctransuk

[natterjack]

Thanks for the motor link - I've bought a few of the 100/200 rpm varieties just so you can actually see the blades rotating.

 

Suggested further visual bits not usually shown in drawings- I have no idea if these already appear in the kit or whether you already have them in hand;

 

- the rather chunky handbrake operating gear and shroud on the RHS rear of the loco frames

 

- two 'gull wing ' access panels on the front section of bonnet (similar to those at the rear of the tender)

 

- contrary to most drawings, I have never seen a photograph showing any mesh over either boiler or exhaust vents (the latter is likely to have had some kind of protection but if so, it was below any normal viewing line). I'll happily stand corrected.

 

- oil and water union each side of tender (roughly behind the side access steps)

 

- 'cove moulding' along the cab roof was a rain gutter.

 

- rear edge od cab roof had a gentle arc in plan

 

- nose front was similarly curved but somewhat less so than a Class 20 (this makes quite a difference to the 'look' in the larger scales)

 

- cab/tender gangway a single, shortened Pullman type (obviating any other buffering), tender rear LMS 'Standard' suspended with Pullman adaptor.

 

- tender frame cutouts differed in shape to standard BR due to lower pivot locations of the (shorter) brake hangers (twin cylinder operation on both GT3 loco and tender)

 

Cheers

 

Les

[cctransuk]

Thanks for the motor link - I've bought a few of the 100/200 rpm varieties just so you can actually see the blades rotating.

 

Suggested further visual bits not usually shown in drawings- I have no idea if these already appear in the kit or whether you already have them in hand;

 

- the rather chunky handbrake operating gear and shroud on the RHS rear of the loco frames

 

- two 'gull wing ' access panels on the front section of bonnet (similar to those at the rear of the tender)

 

- contrary to most drawings, I have never seen a photograph showing any mesh over either boiler or exhaust vents (the latter is likely to have had some kind of protection but if so, it was below any normal viewing line). I'll happily stand corrected.

 

- oil and water union each side of tender (roughly behind the side access steps)

 

- 'cove moulding' along the cab roof was a rain gutter.

 

- rear edge od cab roof had a gentle arc in plan

 

- nose front was similarly curved but somewhat less so than a Class 20 (this makes quite a difference to the 'look' in the larger scales)

 

- cab/tender gangway a single, shortened Pullman type (obviating any other buffering), tender rear LMS 'Standard' suspended with Pullman adaptor.

 

- tender frame cutouts differed in shape to standard BR due to lower pivot locations of the (shorter) brake hangers (twin cylinder operation on both GT3 loco and tender)

 

Cheers

 

Les

 

I had, by dint of a lot of photo-peering, identified pretty much all of the features to which you refer; and have / intend to incorporate(d) them into the model.

 

The sole exception, I suspect, will be the curved cab rear - not easy to amend on the resin moulding and none too obvious, I think.

 

I am struggling with cab interior photos - I managed to screen grab a couple from the BTF GT3 movie, and there are a couple of stills from the British Pathe movie.

 

I also found a loco simulation programme that has a cab interior that matches the stills, and fills in some of the gaps - though how much of that is creative thinking, I'm not sure.

 

Anyway, the project now has 'light at the end of the tunnel', so I'll try and stick with it !

 

Oh - I omitted two 'to do' items from my list in the last post :-

 

etched treadplate to the running board;

 

fit the resin-cast 'hub-caps' to the coupling rod bosses.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[natterjack]

Hi John

 

I can help with photocopy of the works cab controls layout drawing (PM me)- the train sym compares very well (Dovetail?) but I have not seen a shot of the assistants side.

 

Les

[natterjack]

For a clear and unambiguous view of the roof exhaust arrangement, there is a very useful Eddie Bellass photo of the loco as new (ie no soot!) on p. 135 of the Clements and Robinson book 'The LMS Turbomotive, from Evolution to Legacy'.

 

Les

[cctransuk]

I had, by dint of a lot of photo-peering, identified pretty much all of the features to which you refer; and have / intend to incorporate(d) them into the model.

 

The sole exception, I suspect, will be the curved cab rear - not easy to amend on the resin moulding and none too obvious, I think.

 

I am struggling with cab interior photos - I managed to screen grab a couple from the BTF GT3 movie, and there are a couple of stills from the British Pathe movie.

 

I also found a loco simulation programme that has a cab interior that matches the stills, and fills in some of the gaps - though how much of that is creative thinking, I'm not sure.

 

Anyway, the project now has 'light at the end of the tunnel', so I'll try and stick with it !

 

Oh - I omitted two 'to do' items from my list in the last post :-

 

etched treadplate to the running board;

 

fit the resin-cast 'hub-caps' to the coupling rod bosses.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

Well - the 'to do' list has been done!

 

Then, before the painting session, I decided that the garage - where the spray booth is located - needed a major spring-clean. An army of spiders along with their webs were evicted and a vigorous application of a brush and dustpan, followed by the vacuum cleaner, produced an environment more conducive to uncontaminated paintwork.

 

This afternoon, a brand new double-cylinder compressor, together with an equally pristine Iwata TRN2 airbrush, combined with some ancient Gloy etch primer for brass let down with cellulose thinners, seem to have produced a very good basis for the subsequent paint applications.

 

I intend to use Humbrol green 88 and matt red oxide 186 as undercoats, with gloss green 3 and satin red oxide 133 as top coats. I suspect that the satin red oxide will need a small addition of orange in order to achieve the colour depicted in most photos of GT3.

 

For the cab window frames and handrail stanchions I have ordered some Alclad chrome paint, plus the same make of aluminium paint for the cooling elements and the running boards / kick panels.

 

I doubt that there will be any more photos until I get to the reassembly stage - part-painted component parts are not particularly photogenic.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited May 3, 2018 by cctransuk

[96701]

Waiting with bated breath to see the finished object. I'm just summoning up the courage to make a start on mine...........

[cctransuk]

Waiting with bated breath to see the finished object. I'm just summoning up the courage to make a start on mine...........

 

Well - not long to wait !!

 

All is now reassembled and running fine; (and virtually silently).

 

Remaining jobs are :-

 

glaze the windows;

 

refit functional couplings;

 

refit dummy loco / tender flexible fuel and water connections;

 

touch-in any paintwork flaws / damage.

 

Photos will appear here as soon as everything is complete - I have to say that I'm *very* pleased with GT3.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited May 12, 2017 by cctransuk

[cctransuk]

Right - a quick photo session of the completed model; details of the final part of the build, plus things to watch out for, will follow when I have more time.

 

Do bear in mind that I am no Tony Wright or Coachmann - these photos show this only too well, in cruel detail !

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 15, 2017 by cctransuk

[96701]

Right - a quick photo session of the completed model; details of the final part of the build, plus things to watch out for, will follow when I have more time.

 

Do bear in mind that I am no Tony Wright or Coachmann - these photos show this only too well, in cruel detail !

 

IMG_4258.JPG

 

IMG_4261.JPG

 

IMG_4263.JPG

 

IMG_4266.JPG

 

IMG_4268.JPG

 

IMG_4272.JPG

 

IMG_4252.JPG

 

We can't all be Tony Wright nor can we all be Larry Goddard, however if my GT3 turns out anything like yours, I will be delighted. Many thanks for documenting what you have done.

[Corbs]

It looks great!

[Enterprisingwestern]

I would wish to be as "bad" as you John!

 

Mike.