RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted July 20, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 20, 2013 Forgot I'd taken these... The servo set up for the rotary ground signal. Mr Heath Robinson would probably wince at the mechanics of it but it works. I'll do a little vid once it's painted. Would that be the same 'Heath and Robinson engineers to the Great Western Railway' whose premises appeared on Kendal Castle built by the late David jenkinson Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted July 20, 2013 Author Share Posted July 20, 2013 Would that be the same 'Heath and Robinson engineers to the Great Western Railway' whose premises appeared on Kendal Castle built by the late David jenkinson Jamie Lol... Probably nowhere near as sophisticated! Anyway here's a little shaky vid of the painted GS on test..... More soon JF 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted July 21, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 21, 2013 Looking good Jon. Still half asleep - is the error the rivets on the same side of both pieces of the bracket ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted July 21, 2013 Author Share Posted July 21, 2013 Looking good Jon. Still half asleep - is the error the rivets on the same side of both pieces of the bracket ? Iiiiiin one.! JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted July 23, 2013 Author Share Posted July 23, 2013 Assembly of the MR bracket signal is trundling onwards; the bracket is secured on with soldered wire pins as well as superglue and the post is epoxied into a tube soldered below the baseplate. Weightbar assembly; as the signal is now to be fixed at ground level rather than on the platform, the dreaded weightbars are now on show! A 14BA bolt screws into a captive nut on the back of the assembly, so the main post is drilled and counterbored to accept the nut before the assembly is glued and pinned on. A drive rod guide made from thin strip is pinned to the main post. (not glued yet to make painting and re-assembly easier) 2 bellcranks are required for the left hand arm.... The crank supports are a little tall to fit vertically on the trimmers, and there is insufficient space to fit a drive rod through the gap between crank and support. Having looked at a few pics of actual MR bracket signals, it appears that the cranks were fitted all sorts of ways round so I fitted the supports horizontally (almost) and the cranks rotate outside the supports. Not very neat but it's all tested with the servos and works. The drive rod to the left arm will be replaced with one that's the right length and all the "tails" on the rods need trimming.. More soon if night shift fatigue doesn't give me a kicking!. Feeling a wee bit kernackered.... JF 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted July 25, 2013 Author Share Posted July 25, 2013 Once I knew all the mechanical bits worked. I stripped them off and got on with the staging. As I have reduced the doll spacing a bit, the etched staging needed altering to suit. 3 planks were removed from the middle and the 2 halves re-joined using a strip of scrap etch. The support brackets were also folded up and soldered beneath. I usually fix on the handrail stanchions but leave off the handrails until the signal is re-assembled after painting. After looking at a few more pics of midland brackets I realised the front handrails are fixed to the dolls. There is a break in the rail at each doll and the rails end up behind the operating rods for the signals making painting and re-assembly much easier. A test fitting.. GW Bracket More weight bars and cranks! Got the linkages done for this one too although the cranks are now a permanent fixture...fortunately the painting process is usually forgiving enough not to bung everything up although I might add a judicious blob of maskol here and there! Looks nice and Western already... Found a later pattern MR ground signal etch in my box of signal bits so I may have a play with that next as break from the main jobs. More soon JF 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 Only a little update as I haven't managed to do much (too many 12 hour night shifts)... MR ground signal A clever bit of origami produces this little structure. As the weightbar needed to work, I soldered a tiny piece of 0.6mm I/D tube over the pivot hole and trimmed it further until it fitted on an axle made from a lace pin. The arm also had a pin soldered through and the folded up lamp casing cleverly provides 2 bearing plates. Although it worked, it was a bit too loose so another piece of tube was (very carefully!) soldered between the 2 plates to act as a bearing. More soon JF 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted August 1, 2013 Author Share Posted August 1, 2013 Nearly finished the GW bracket signal, just the ring on the left arm to fit and the application of a good dose of grot to tone it down.The model is of an actual signal and features a missing ring on the right arm with just some paint marks remaining. Right! As I have a right load of jobs to finish before Telford, you'll be glad to know I'll be cutting down on the usual tedious updates until after then. Cheers and beers Jon F 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted August 1, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 1, 2013 Right! As I have a right load of jobs to finish before Telford, you'll be glad to know I'll be cutting down on the usual tedious updates until after then. Cheers and beers Jon F Jon - your updates are not tedious, far from it, even if you make the wrong companies signals Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fay Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 Stunning work Jon can't wait to see it at Telford. Cantons going to look all the better with that signal on it. Lovely work mate 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 1, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 1, 2013 (edited) Stunning work Jon can't wait to see it at Telford. Cantons going to look all the better with that signal on it. Lovely work mate Ah, that signal! Yes - a good likeness indeed. As seen on the extreme right of this pic - http://www.flickr.com/photos/taffytank/5154480243/in/set-72157624820751216 Edited August 1, 2013 by The Stationmaster 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fay Posted August 1, 2013 Share Posted August 1, 2013 (edited) Jon I know colour lights are not your thing but if you won't the job I do need these, That's a two aspect under that massive hood (war time restrictions). Only a red and green bulb. & ??? The big gantry the little ground ones would be a bonus. Edited August 1, 2013 by steve fay 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 2, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 2, 2013 Jon I know colour lights are not your thing but if you won't the job I do need these,image.jpg That's a two aspect under that massive hood (war time restrictions). Only a red and green bulb. & image.jpg ??? The big gantry the little ground ones would be a bonus. I think you will find it's a 3 aspect signal with 3 separate lenses Steve - not 2 aspect, the lens hood looks far too deep for 2 aspect and the standard signals on the E&C lines were all 3 aspect with separate lenses (it's also shown on the SRS 'box plan as a 3 lens signal). What is far from clear - from any source - is whether or not it had an automatic Calling On signal as well, the SRS plan shows a position light which obviously isn't there on the photo and I've always been of the impression that the signals retained their original GW special illuminated COs when the posts etc were renewed although particularly signal was not part of the original E&C lines colour light signalling scheme - which is a great pity as the original E&C colour lights were all mounted on timber posts, complete with finials, and had US style cast iron numberplates arranged vertically. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fay Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Thanks Mike I wasn't sure which one it was. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Hello Stationmaster, I'm with you on the three aspect signal. Am I correct in thinking that E&C =engine & carriage lines to Old Oak? But I can't get SRS plan. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fay Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 That signal does control the empty carriage line into Paddington Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted August 2, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 2, 2013 Hello Stationmaster, I'm with you on the three aspect signal. Am I correct in thinking that E&C =engine & carriage lines to Old Oak? But I can't get SRS plan. OzzyO. Yes Ozzy - E&C were the Engine & Carriage Lines. There were two lines, one in each direction, throughout from Old Oak Common, via the overbridge, but between Subway Jcn and Paddington there were two in the Up direction (with the Down Main between them). The signal in Steve's pic applied to No1. Up E&C at Westbourne Bridge signalbox. All drastically altered in the 1967 layout changes and all altered again in the mid 1990s changes. The E&C lines seem to have been some of the earliest lines with colour light signalling anywhere on the GWR (apart from GWR & Met Joint) and it seems to have dated from the late 1920s or possibly the very early 1930s and as I mentioned above the original signal were carried on standard timber posts complete with finials although quite a lot of them later acquired tubular steel posts. The E&C Lines were permissive throughout so almost all the signals had a special 'Calling On' indicator mounted below the main head which lit up to show a facsimile of a lower quadrant CO arm in the off position. The odd thing about them was that unlike the later GWR colour lights which replicated semaphore signal indications the E&C Line signals were proper 3 aspect signals with the standard aspect sequence plus electric stencil indicators where route indication was required. There is a drawing of one of the 3 aspect heads in Adrian Vaughan's book on GW signalling (page 70 and it s partially dimensioned so could be scaled but the post is Reading product and nt the GRS sort which looks to be the type in the pic above. Apologies to John for hijacking his thread (again). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted August 3, 2013 Author Share Posted August 3, 2013 Wow! You lot have been busy since I last looked! It's quite ironic that all the colour lights that have been discussed on this thread are probably older and more historically significant than most of the semaphore signals I've built.....but.....they just don't "flip my switch" in the same way that semaphores do (Sorry Steve!). It must be the animation of the semaphores that is missing in colour lights, the same way that steam locos compare to diesels. Both equally interesting but in different ways and to different people for different reasons... Another factor is, I was an early fan of traditional signalling, visiting boxes from the age of 7 or 8 and becoming quite attached to those places and their equipment. Whenever I "lost" a signal or a box to modernisation , its grave always seemed to be marked with a colour light signal so I see them as the "bad guys". Silly, I know but there we go.. Anyway after that deep and meaningless interlude, here's a couple of finished signals! The GW signal has been weathered although it's hard to tell from the pics (it looks a lot dirtier in the flesh!) and the MR ground signal has been assembled and worked well until the weight bar pivot tube failed. Needless to say it got soldered up and bypassed and the arm works just as well thanks... Cheers JF 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fay Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 Looks stunning mate. Looking forward to seeing it in the flesh at Telford So that's a definite no then:-/ on the above? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted August 3, 2013 Author Share Posted August 3, 2013 So that's a definite no then:-/ on the above? Correct! JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted August 3, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 3, 2013 Wow! You lot have been busy since I last looked! It's quite ironic that all the colour lights that have been discussed on this thread are probably older and more historically significant than most of the semaphore signals I've built.....but.....they just don't "flip my switch" in the same way that semaphores do (Sorry Steve!). It must be the animation of the semaphores that is missing in colour lights, the same way that steam locos compare to diesels. Both equally interesting but in different ways and to different people for different reasons... Another factor is, I was an early fan of traditional signalling, visiting boxes from the age of 7 or 8 and becoming quite attached to those places and their equipment. Whenever I "lost" a signal or a box to modernisation , its grave always seemed to be marked with a colour light signal so I see them as the "bad guys". Silly, I know but there we go.. Anyway after that deep and meaningless interlude, here's a couple of finished signals! The GW signal has been weathered although it's hard to tell from the pics (it looks a lot dirtier in the flesh!) and the MR ground signal has been assembled and worked well until the weight bar pivot tube failed. Needless to say it got soldered up and bypassed and the arm works just as well thanks... P1050908a.JPG P1050909a.JPG P1050905.JPG P1050906.JPG Cheers JF Nice to see that Jon. We finished wiring the boards the other week and got the station boards put up last night to see what we could do next. Surprise surprise it's to finiah the platforms and make room for the bracket signal and the up home. Jamie 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fay Posted August 3, 2013 Share Posted August 3, 2013 (edited) Correct! JF Ok mate thanks any way Edited August 3, 2013 by steve fay Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted August 4, 2013 Author Share Posted August 4, 2013 Nice to see that Jon. We finished wiring the boards the other week and got the station boards put up last night to see what we could do next. Surprise surprise it's to finiah the platforms and make room for the bracket signal and the up home. Jamie The bracket's in the paintshop as we type! JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAlchemist Posted August 6, 2013 Share Posted August 6, 2013 It was 'silver' John (in reality a shade of 'aluminium' I would presume but it gave a very silvery finish when new and weathered very well in most situations). Years ago I always took the view that Humbrol 'aluminium - I forget the number alas - was a pretty close match for it. It is avery different colour from that used by any other Region the closest probably being that used by the Eastern (not the North Eastern) in the 1970s although that always looked a shade or two duller than the Western colour. Alas I've not got any 'modern' Painting Instructions for WR S&T stuff but some properly coloured examples can still be found notwithstanding the incursion of all sorts of horrendous oddities due to boundary changes and the whim of local engineers from the 1980s onwards. Although the example below is a colour light this shows what the colour is like after years of weathering (I can't remember when this signal was last painted but it has certainly not been touched in the last decade) - the pic was taken in more or less direct afternoon sunlight and I think is a pretty good rendering of the colour as weathered but the paint used to take some years to become this dull. DSCF2377.jpg I just want to add some thoughts dredged from my days making aluminium paints. These are (were) made using so-called aluminium paste, that is aluminium flakes dispersed/milled into a solvent such as white spirit or xylene.By altering the chemistry of the paste either leafing or non-leafing types can be produced. Both process take a lot of experise to make consistently. (Beyond me) non-leafing types are used in the metallic finishes often used on motor cars in which you can easily see the individual flakes. Non-leafing aluminium yields the very bright silvery finish which you will often see on structural steel and ironwork and as a coating on bituminous felt roofing. The silvery effect seen on oil refineries and chemical plant is often due to this sort of coating rather than the often assumed stainless steel. This type is employed as the flakes literally act as leafs which plate to form a very effective light and moisture barrier. Hence their use on railway furniture as an aid to prevent corrosion of the underlying metalwork. Of course the binder which the paintmaker uses also has some bearing as it is that which provides adhesion, both to the substrate and also between the aluminium platelets, which can be less than optimal. Aluminium is a difficult substrate to get adhesion to. As the coating ages the aluminium is inevitably subject to attack and the initial brightness is seen to diminish. see this for some diagrams http://www.toyal-europe.com/fr/xlp-view.php, and http://www.silberline.com/BasicSection.aspx?id=342 This might be of interest when yo next try to estimate the time when the item was last painted! Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted August 6, 2013 Author Share Posted August 6, 2013 I just want to add some thoughts dredged from my days making aluminium paints. These are (were) made using so-called aluminium paste, that is aluminium flakes dispersed/milled into a solvent such as white spirit or xylene.By altering the chemistry of the paste either leafing or non-leafing types can be produced. Both process take a lot of experise to make consistently. (Beyond me) non-leafing types are used in the metallic finishes often used on motor cars in which you can easily see the individual flakes. Non-leafing aluminium yields the very bright silvery finish which you will often see on structural steel and ironwork and as a coating on bituminous felt roofing. The silvery effect seen on oil refineries and chemical plant is often due to this sort of coating rather than the often assumed stainless steel. This type is employed as the flakes literally act as leafs which plate to form a very effective light and moisture barrier. Hence their use on railway furniture as an aid to prevent corrosion of the underlying metalwork. Of course the binder which the paintmaker uses also has some bearing as it is that which provides adhesion, both to the substrate and also between the aluminium platelets, which can be less than optimal. Aluminium is a difficult substrate to get adhesion to. As the coating ages the aluminium is inevitably subject to attack and the initial brightness is seen to diminish. see this for some diagrams http://www.toyal-europe.com/fr/xlp-view.php, and http://www.silberline.com/BasicSection.aspx?id=342 This might be of interest when yo next try to estimate the time when the item was last painted! Jerry Thats quite interesting thanks! I've studied quite a few pics of silver posted signals but the vast majority of them have been B&W. They do rust quite badly too which is always difficult to replicate convincingly in model form. Bridge girders and large gantries seem to be painted a darker silver grey and they almost sparkled when seen close up and thats another finish difficult to replicate too... Cheers JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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