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Jon Fitness

Jon Fitness' average 7mm signals workbench.

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Greetings all!, Time for a quick catch up again.

I had a major disaster with the first go on this LMS gantry as I got the measurements wrong as I built it ! This is the second attempt and is still in need of a lot of cleaning up and scraping. Strangely when I had the bits to make this etched, I forgot the little curved brackets from post to cross members so I'm in the process of getting those organised.

Seen here posed on the startings of my garden layout...

 

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These are the brackets I'll be getting etched. No idea why I forgot them!

 

post-7179-0-66296400-1528910450_thumb.jpg

 

More soon

JF

 

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I am sure it's going to be a belter when complete!

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Jon have you started a thread about your garden layout, looks great, you know we like pics and updates on here :)

Edited by Grasshopper John
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Jon have you started a thread about your garden layout, looks great, you know we like pics and updates on here :)

Not yet! Have enough trouble keeping this one and the rolling stock thread anywhere near up to date :lazy:  :mosking:

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Jon, I have to start building some GWR  round post signals in 7mm. I wonder if you could give a quick summary of sources of supply of the various bits , arms , posts etc .

 

 

thanks 

 

 

Dave 

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Hi Jon, Just had a good look at those brackets.   They won't be easy to etch with that curved L girder having the return on the inner part of the curve.  It would have to be a separate piece with maybe a half etched locating line.   One thought would be to combine it with the little strap that goes across the bracket so that it would locate easily then you could solder the curved bit at your leisure.

 

Have fun but it's looking good.

 

Jamie

 

PS I waved as we set off from Portsmouth a week ago.

Edited by jamie92208

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I think that's broadly how it will come out. Just had the go ahead from PPD so should be with me in about 5 days.

Didn't see the wave though!

Edited by Jon Fitness

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Jon, I have to start building some GWR round post signals in 7mm. I wonder if you could give a quick summary of sources of supply of the various bits , arms , posts etc .

 

 

thanks

 

 

Dave

Scale signal Supply are OK for GW signal bits. The 3D printed GW finials and lamp cases from Modelu are superb too. MSE Parts are OK but the arms are a little over scale and starting to look a bit old style now.

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Scale signal Supply are OK for GW signal bits. The 3D printed GW finials and lamp cases from Modelu are superb too. MSE Parts are OK but the arms are a little over scale and starting to look a bit old style now.

For MSE chose the small etches, The larger ones, as Jon says leave something to be desired. For the tubular ones, I only ever buy the large etch for the tubular post bracket. Consequently I now have amassed quite a collection of parts which would need further work to be of any real use.

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A rather nice sheet of etched bits arrived in the post a few days ago. Good news..most of it looks ok. Bad news..I chose too thick a material (0.5mm) so some of ot will be a bit heavy to work with. One or two bits haven't etched properly but the mistakes are all mine. Excellent service from PPD though; from paying up to receiving the etch, 4 days!

 

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The missing brackets from the gantry are now ready to fit..

 

 

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Now looking much more like an LMS gantry!

 

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The dolls are in preparation but I haven't photographed them yet!

 

This is my take on an LMS corrugated arm. A bit of a cheat as theres none on the back but version 2 should be better (and thinner and nickel silver, not brass!)

 

post-7179-0-69574800-1530688849_thumb.jpg

 

More soon.

JF

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Wow superb as ever Jon :)

 

Rich

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Thanks Rich!

I've prepared the dolls now and made a start on the dreaded linkages. All my plans and sketches planning out the route of the linkages were, of course, wrong so I went back to the usual method of "try a bit and see if it fits, make everything else fit round it" :scratchhead:  :stinker: 

I have a rough idea that it will all work now so I progressed with the servo mountings which all have to be at one end due to the gantry's planned location. It now needs a special stand so I can carry on with construction!

 

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The dolls are still loosely fitted hence the tweezers stopping the tall one rotating. At least I can now fit the landings, handrails and main ladders.

I think its really starting to get that look now!

Another thing I've had etched up is a BR(W) bracket structure for a commission. The MSE one available couldn't be easily altered to fit the bill so I did what needed to be done. Aside from being etched on too thick material (entirely my mistake) I think it looks the part and may consider getting a few more done if anyone wants some!

 

post-7179-0-06933900-1531599940_thumb.jpg 

post-7179-0-54585300-1531599944_thumb.jpg

 

More soon

JF

Edited by Jon Fitness
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With the gantry now back to sub assembly stage, I ran a wiring main for the LEDs, fitted railings, ladder and dummy weight bars (yes, I know. It's mechanically complicated enough already thanks!) and started the painting process. I think the primers just about the right colour for the grey the were painted but we'll see when the black bits go on!

More soon

JF post-7179-0-53635800-1532261476_thumb.jpg

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And I even rotated the picture and it still rotated it back! Back to the computer for updates. Too much hassle on the phone!

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Jon,

A question for you if you don't mind .... based around the late 1970s/early 1980s, on Midland / LNER practice (Im presuming the signalling wouldn't have been updated) for a three road approach to a station, where it is possible to have incoming services on each of the three lines, I'm presuming a gantry would have been used rather than individual posts.  

 

Given that the maximum number of routes from any ONE of the three lines is seven, would it have been a single arm for each route with a theatre indicator or multiple arms ... or would there have been very short sections to break the routing options down?    Im thinking of a situation like at a terminal station?

 

Also today, we tend to get a significant amount of bi-directional signalling to provide flexibility, but Im assuming back in the semaphore era bi-di was minimised because of the complexity, so there would have been single routes from position A to position B, not the ability to have two or more routes between the two positions?  By positions, im thinking 'Down Main' to 'Platform 4' style routing.

 

Any thoughts

 

Rich

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Rich

 

Would all three lines access all 7 platform faces? This seems to be capabke of a very intensive service!

 

Can you post a Track plan ?

 

Best

Simon

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Jon,

A question for you if you don't mind .... based around the late 1970s/early 1980s, on Midland / LNER practice (Im presuming the signalling wouldn't have been updated) for a three road approach to a station, where it is possible to have incoming services on each of the three lines, I'm presuming a gantry would have been used rather than individual posts.  

 

Given that the maximum number of routes from any ONE of the three lines is seven, would it have been a single arm for each route with a theatre indicator or multiple arms ... or would there have been very short sections to break the routing options down?    Im thinking of a situation like at a terminal station?

 

Also today, we tend to get a significant amount of bi-directional signalling to provide flexibility, but Im assuming back in the semaphore era bi-di was minimised because of the complexity, so there would have been single routes from position A to position B, not the ability to have two or more routes between the two positions?  By positions, im thinking 'Down Main' to 'Platform 4' style routing.

 

Any thoughts

 

Rich

That'll take some thinking about! Leave it with me!

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Hi Simon,

 

Rich

Would all three lines access all 7 platform faces? This seems to be capabke of a very intensive service!

Can you post a Track plan ?

Best
Simon

 

Potentially yes I think it would.  I'll not post a plan, purely because I don't want to take over Jon's thread on his superb signal making! It was more a quick query, although given Jon's response, perhaps not so quick!

 

 

That'll take some thinking about! Leave it with me!

 

 

Its on your doorstep Jon :). Thanks!

 

Rich

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Jon,

A question for you if you don't mind .... based around the late 1970s/early 1980s, on Midland / LNER practice (Im presuming the signalling wouldn't have been updated) for a three road approach to a station, where it is possible to have incoming services on each of the three lines, I'm presuming a gantry would have been used rather than individual posts.  

 

Given that the maximum number of routes from any ONE of the three lines is seven, would it have been a single arm for each route with a theatre indicator or multiple arms ... or would there have been very short sections to break the routing options down?    Im thinking of a situation like at a terminal station?

 

Also today, we tend to get a significant amount of bi-directional signalling to provide flexibility, but Im assuming back in the semaphore era bi-di was minimised because of the complexity, so there would have been single routes from position A to position B, not the ability to have two or more routes between the two positions?  By positions, im thinking 'Down Main' to 'Platform 4' style routing.

 

Any thoughts

 

Rich

Probably a bit of a cop out answer for this question but it could potentially be either of the 2 suggestions could be right. Ex NER and GNR gantries were notoriously complex, usually providing a separate doll for each route . Ex LNWR gantries could be of a similar complexity; check out some of them that were at Preston rather than just looking at the rather ridiculous example at Rugby that everyone knows!

Route indicators were a fairly early invention, the L&YR installing a few around Blackpool in the early 1910's. The LMS did try to replace a lot of gantries with colour light signals but that process was slowed down by WW2 hence a lot survived for a lot longer than they needed to.

Not really the answer you were looking for I know but signalling wasn't always modernised/simplified in any logical order really!

JF

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Its amazing just how long some jobs can take!

The LMS gantry is near enough all complete at last. It just needs a good dose of weathering and it'll be all done. Each doll was assembled, wired for lights tested both mechanically and electrically then stripped, painted and re-assembled ready for fitting to the gantry. Once fitted, each dolls lighting wire was soldered to a convenient pick up point within the gantry and the doll soldered to the structure for it's electrical earth. All mechanical links were then installed down to the servos and after many adjustments it all seemed to work. I have cheated a little as the weight bars on the main post are dummy ones as getting them to work in an already complex structure would have added another level of slack in the linkages I didnt need! All the little areas of bare metal were touched in with appropriate colours then real wooden staging added and stained. Doll ladders were then prepared and painted before fitting and touching in.

It's all been tested and works well but is in need of a few adjustments as things loosen up around the various painted pivot points.

I'll try and post a video up in the next few days.

post-7179-0-47783500-1534628436_thumb.jpgpost-7179-0-71777800-1534628440_thumb.jpgpost-7179-0-63510000-1534628446_thumb.jpgpost-7179-0-76601100-1534628450_thumb.jpgpost-7179-0-81153200-1534628454_thumb.jpgpost-7179-0-50592400-1534628465_thumb.jpgpost-7179-0-34293000-1534628469_thumb.jpgpost-7179-0-08125800-1534628473_thumb.jpg

More soon

JF

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I am sure it's going to be a belter when complete!

I wasn't wrong!

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Jon,

A question for you if you don't mind .... based around the late 1970s/early 1980s, on Midland / LNER practice (Im presuming the signalling wouldn't have been updated) for a three road approach to a station, where it is possible to have incoming services on each of the three lines, I'm presuming a gantry would have been used rather than individual posts.  

 

Given that the maximum number of routes from any ONE of the three lines is seven, would it have been a single arm for each route with a theatre indicator or multiple arms ... or would there have been very short sections to break the routing options down?    Im thinking of a situation like at a terminal station?

 

Also today, we tend to get a significant amount of bi-directional signalling to provide flexibility, but Im assuming back in the semaphore era bi-di was minimised because of the complexity, so there would have been single routes from position A to position B, not the ability to have two or more routes between the two positions?  By positions, im thinking 'Down Main' to 'Platform 4' style routing.

 

Any thoughts

 

Rich

 

One thing others don't seem to have mentioned is that what would be there by the time you have in mind could have been very much influenced by which BR Region was responsible for the area.  If the NER than I think inevitable that it would be colour lights by then (although not a wholly resignalled location). 

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John,

 

A few queries regarding some of the colours you have used.

 

I have not come across the spectacle plates been painted the same colour as the arm before or the blinders being white?  Whilst I have seen brackets and gantries in grey before, I had thought this was a fairly recent paint scheme?

 

Can you enlighten me when these colours are appropiate?

 

 

Mark

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