Jump to content
USERS MAY EXPERIENCE SLOW PERFORMANCE, THIS IS DUE TO A DRIVE ISSUE WHICH IS BEING INVESTIGATED.

Recommended Posts

  • 3 weeks later...

Hi Jon,

A friend recommended reading through your posts on here - truly inspirational .... I want to say modelling, but I think micro engineering is a better term for your work!

 

I'll openly admit, I know the very basics about signals, even the tag line of 'informed idiot' would be placing me in a higher category than I should be!  But a friend of mine is creating a model ... well cameo scene really, but it will likely grow and develop into something bigger!  And we were looking at building the semaphore signals to go with it - its 16mm scale, so I don't think we're treading on your toes in anyway, but I've offered to create the various S&T drawings in CAD for no end of different bits for him, from point rodding cranks to semaphore arms, and I was hoping you might be able to help me out (or point me in the right direction) with dimensions.   We are basing the semaphores on Eastern Region semaphores that would have been seen around the Doncaster/Rotherham area (which I think from the boxes were ex-GC design). 

 

Was there such a thing as an average height to a semaphore post or was everything bespoke for its location?  Do you know the size of the signal 'arms' and the individual reflectors, or indeed the lamp housing/weight bars?  7mm sizes would be ok if nothing else, as we can scale them up.  We have a double ground signal, one home, one home bracket (two arms) and a two arm shunt signal to create, so I think it is worth trying to create things like the arms etc, in brass.  Im thinking of using the CAD drawings to 3D print the lamp brackets, and see if I can find someone to take a 3D master and create some whitemetal parts for us, for things like the weights.

 

I have been looking around and it seems that many GC signals were lower case, although these appear to have either not survived into the 1950s, or been replaced with lattice or solid pole style structures with upper quadrant arms?  Lattice post would need be an etched brass design (any suggestions on the thickness?) while the solid pole could be brass tube I think.

 

Any dimensions, advice or help you can (or are willing) to give, without breaching any trade secrets(!) would be most welcomed.  Sorry to ask so many questions.

 

Richie

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Cor! 16mm scale, that's almost heavy engineering for me!

Eastern region isn't my specialist subject really but by the mid to late 50s there weren't many ex GCR signals left. Your assumption that most would be upper quadrant isn't far wrong. The tubular posts that replaced most of the old wooden or lattice posts would probably be of a similar height to the older structures as for the most part, the same sighting would be required until colour light signals were used. Ground signals were mostly ex LNER standard disc type.

Always difficult to give "standard" sizes as most signals were, as you suggest, designed for specific locations from a selection of fairly standard types.

I can provide drawings of standard ex LMS bits and pieces but for things ex LNER, there are a few chaps on here that have a far more in depth knowledge than me!

An excellent book for budding signal builders Mick Nicholson's one which I heartily recommend.

I'll post some drawings up for you soon

Jon F.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Jon,

Many thanks - an other good friend said that you were a very social and knowledgeable chap where signalling was concerned!!  Many thanks for the help.

 

Cor! 16mm scale, that's almost heavy engineering for me!
Eastern region isn't my specialist subject really but by the mid to late 50s there weren't many ex GCR signals left. Your assumption that most would be upper quadrant isn't far wrong. The tubular posts that replaced most of the old wooden or lattice posts would probably be of a similar height to the older structures as for the most part, the same sighting would be required until colour light signals were used. Ground signals were mostly ex LNER standard disc type.
Always difficult to give "standard" sizes as most signals were, as you suggest, designed for specific locations from a selection of fairly standard types.
I can provide drawings of standard ex LMS bits and pieces but for things ex LNER, there are a few chaps on here that have a far more in depth knowledge than me!
An excellent book for budding signal builders Mick Nicholson's one which I heartily recommend.
I'll post some drawings up for you soon
Jon F.

 

Lol! I know, as a nominal N gauge modeller (all work on hold until I am in the new house!) 16mm seems bl**dy big!!  Im quite good at CAD drawing, but we'll see how the brass and 3D prints come out!  I'll see if I can get hold of a copy of Mick Nicholson's book - Mick has been very very kind too in assisting with drawings and photos of the various point rodding parts along with a number of S&T items for working the signals, but I didn't know he'd done a book! You don't happen to have the title or ISBN do you, and I'll have a see if a certain rainforest stocks it!

 

So I think from that, that we are looking at probably upper quadrant signals with LNER style ground signals.  Were there many differences between LMS and LNER UQ signals for this area do you know?  Any drawings, either posted on here or if you want to PM me I can give you an email address if that's easier would be gratefully appreciated.  Id like to think I can repay the support sometime, but likely hood is you know far more than I ever will about this stuff!!  If I can ever help out with any CAD drawings for you in return, do feel free to shout!

 

Have a word with Modelu and see if his signal lamps are "printable" at 16mm scale too.

 

 

Ooh will do, that would save me designing and printing them.  There's a company at Cardiff I think that do etched brass, who I was going to use for those type of parts and probably Shapeways for any 3D bits and pieces.  I think I need to find someone who can create white metal items from a 3D mould, or failing that maybe learn how to do it myself!  Looking at some YouTube videos it doesn't look that difficult.  I've been studying your thread for how to position things like the LEDs for the gas lamps and then how to thread the various wires, hope you don't mind!

 

Thanks again Jon, really is appreciated.

 

Richie

Edited by Richie Kynaston
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Jon,

Many thanks - an other good friend said that you were a very social and knowledgeable chap where signalling was concerned!!  Many thanks for the help.

 

 

Lol! I know, as a nominal N gauge modeller (all work on hold until I am in the new house!) 16mm seems bl**dy big!!  Im quite good at CAD drawing, but we'll see how the brass and 3D prints come out!  I'll see if I can get hold of a copy of Mick Nicholson's book - Mick has been very very kind too in assisting with drawings and photos of the various point rodding parts along with a number of S&T items for working the signals, but I didn't know he'd done a book! You don't happen to have the title or ISBN do you, and I'll have a see if a certain rainforest stocks it!

 

So I think from that, that we are looking at probably upper quadrant signals with LNER style ground signals.  Were there many differences between LMS and LNER UQ signals for this area do you know?  Any drawings, either posted on here or if you want to PM me I can give you an email address if that's easier would be gratefully appreciated.  Id like to think I can repay the support sometime, but likely hood is you know far more than I ever will about this stuff!!  If I can ever help out with any CAD drawings for you in return, do feel free to shout!

 

 

 

Ooh will do, that would save me designing and printing them.  There's a company at Cardiff I think that do etched brass, who I was going to use for those type of parts and probably Shapeways for any 3D bits and pieces.  I think I need to find someone who can create white metal items from a 3D mould, or failing that maybe learn how to do it myself!  Looking at some YouTube videos it doesn't look that difficult.  I've been studying your thread for how to position things like the LEDs for the gas lamps and then how to thread the various wires, hope you don't mind!

 

Thanks again Jon, really is appreciated.

 

Richie

Hope I can help! There are a few "signature" fittings and structures that wil identify the plain tubular post signals as being from the ER such as the lampmans's staging and handrails. Bracket signals on the ER tended to be of the Plate and Angle types rather than just from tubes.

Feel free to take anything you need from my thread, it's exactly what its there for! :sungum:

JF

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...

Back to it on the signal bench now!

Seems like I've got a bit of a Southern thing going at the moment.

This is very similar to a previous signal I've built but I'm quite pleased with it anyway. A 2 doll ex LSWR structure fitted with U/Q arms and 2 standard SR ground signals bracketed off it.

 

post-7179-0-72119400-1547761192_thumb.jpgpost-7179-0-96671000-1547761189_thumb.jpgpost-7179-0-01089500-1547761187_thumb.jpgpost-7179-0-77437000-1547761183_thumb.jpgpost-7179-0-11159000-1547761181_thumb.jpg

 

This one is an SR built 4 doll bracket based on one from Ilfracome. The construction of the real thing looks to be 3 H girders braced together. I've used 3 pieces of box section with "flanges" soldered on to represent the girders so I can use the space inside to hide wires etc.

 

post-7179-0-93771700-1547761177_thumb.jpgpost-7179-0-95656100-1547761173_thumb.jpgpost-7179-0-20193300-1547761171_thumb.jpgpost-7179-0-48528100-1547761167_thumb.jpg

 

More soon

JF

  • Like 11
  • Agree 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Some more progress on the "Ilfracombe" bracket signal. Dolls soldered in place and 2 of the LEDs fitted. I've run out of the "gaslamp" LEDs from Helmsman so I'm hoping to restock at Bristol next weekend.

post-7179-0-74694700-1547927994_thumb.jpg

It's turning out a little wider than I expected but only because I'm using modified etches rather than scratchbuilt. I think it's captured the spirit of the real one though!

More soon

JF

  • Like 10
Link to post
Share on other sites

Some more progress on the "Ilfracombe" bracket signal. Dolls soldered in place and 2 of the LEDs fitted. I've run out of the "gaslamp" LEDs from Helmsman so I'm hoping to restock at Bristol next weekend.

attachicon.gifDSC_0944.JPG

It's turning out a little wider than I expected but only because I'm using modified etches rather than scratchbuilt. I think it's captured the spirit of the real one though!

More soon

JF

 

 

Jon,

What are "Gaslamp" LEDs if you don't mind me asking?

 

Richie

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Richie,

 

They are a particular colour which represents the glow of a Gas Lamp.

I use them to represent Oil Lamps in all my 4mm signals.

 

see:  http://www.helmsmanuk.co.uk/Accessories.html

for more details.

 

Steve.

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/59687-semaphore-signals-4mm-scale-mainly/page-1

Though I have no connection with the firm, they are very good. I use the same LED's for platform lamps.

 

Jamie

Edited by jamie92208
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 4 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

There's a bit of a story behind these 3 signals that you may or may not be aware of.

I built them for a customers scale7 layout of Bath Green Park loco shed and its environs but sadly the chap passed away before he took delivery.

I've recently had permission to sell them on so if anyone out there wishes to buy any or all of them, please PM me for further details.

The largest of them features a custom etched main bracket. All of them are servo fitted and LED lit.

JF

1101642638_DSC_0580(576x1024).jpg.b3ba89d8c3000ab53ec35c1ff8e084ce.jpg1499771992_DSC_1262(576x1024).jpg.f0d5f7b4a6541c72407b0f676a03d900.jpg1993834751_DSC_0552(576x1024).jpg.66f24c1d62dd65bd38dd8a904841205d.jpg911037044_DSC_0551(576x1024).jpg.635753b6a69d494f4af5a80566937a49.jpg1805580732_DSC_0581(576x1024).jpg.00203489eb4ad93185b989bff1cca592.jpg1330166565_DSC_1263(576x1024).jpg.468c2e6a1a888a4e1a779a4cc8e08d1a.jpg

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites

I've revived an old signal and re purposed it for it's new owner. A former 2 arm shunt signal it became a stop signal with a shunt underneath it. In the process it gained new lamp cases, arms, backblinds, ladders, staging and weight bars. It also had a two segment stencil route indicator fitted!. Trigger would have been proud of me!:blink:

1957549500_DSC_1204(576x1024).jpg.27c836a5453088ef776dccc89ae34fb8.jpg1661712635_DSC_1202(576x1024).jpg.81667ff7256d2df23570eee210375780.jpg

Next off the bench was a BR(W) 3 doll stop signal. This one features the first use of my own etched GWR pressed steel signal arms. These are the earlier pattern with the front corrugated edges rather than the later folded edge type. The back blinders and weightbars are also off the same etch.

Modelu 3D printed finials and lampcases are now standard fitments on my GW signals and the LEDs are Helmsman's "gaslamp" ones as recommended by Steve Hewitt. I'm now hooked on these as they allow the correct use of turquoise lenses in the green spectacle glass.

1506474697_DSC_1240(576x1024).jpg.0773c98eaf4f382f89e8c8c8c4dd13b0.jpg841592193_DSC_1239(576x1024).jpg.6b2efecd550feca821752d7390b48b0d.jpg306793791_DSC_1238(576x1024).jpg.852c2cdaa38085d3917b4d3fcf1308a6.jpg2138450147_DSC_1237(576x1024).jpg.3045b0a3a00ea88795700d778ea251bf.jpg585167387_DSC_1236(576x1024).jpg.10e557cc6dfb77417596d548b9be9711.jpg

More soon (including more etches!)

JF 

  • Like 6
  • Craftsmanship/clever 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I've now got an ex LSWR 4 doll platform mounted bracket signal on the go. For this I got some large brackets etched along with staging framework and SR style weightbars/brackets. This is the etch in 0.375 NIcklesilver (including some mistakes I made!) I've already punched out the rivet detail.

358650971_DSC_1326(1024x576).jpg.b48604c3eb8ce9b5aa81789f7f38ce75.jpg

The weightbar brackets ready for forming.

1227721921_DSC_1327(1024x576).jpg.377307ffcfa39b9e195312da00ad589b.jpg

The brackets turned out to be a little wide for this particular job so were shortened by 1 section at the ends.

660375448_DSC_1329(1024x576).jpg.138411b8ac443488e3d59bf2dd20541e.jpg1809483624_DSC_1330(1024x576).jpg.616b0530bcfb048d149e534c193f7666.jpg

With the main post reduced in height the structure was assembled in its basic form.

1624929483_DSC_1331(1024x576).jpg.4baee07d02a78730b4e638eb84172b30.jpg

Next up was the dolls, all MSE etches with Scale Signal Supply arms. They will eventually gain Modelu lamp cases and finials.

174582828_DSC_1349(1024x576).jpg.4a17ed3b164d3a4ae57f24f3e7a868fa.jpg1658806369_DSC_1360(1024x576).jpg.9ffda257aeb87df11527330aff606ecb.jpg

The bottom flanges fitted to the brackets and the dolls added.935877548_DSC_1350(1024x576).jpg.2d3cc4fd8aa2e57d23e4929488524391.jpg1397177065_DSC_1361(1024x576).jpg.0b322707fc2f0ac724d4c1a730705a4f.jpg

More Soon

JF

 

  • Like 8
  • Craftsmanship/clever 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

The main structure of the bracket signal is now ready for painting. I've left off the front handrail until all is painted and assembled as it's easier to link up all the mechanical connections without it!

1552733933_DSC_1388(576x1024).jpg.8ff814cf6ee1e2f6ad9a103cd59bd8e1.jpg

Sorry about the dodgy focus on the pic. I dropped my phone and all the accumulated dust inside has now found its way to between the lens and its cover...:wacko:.

  • Like 3
  • Craftsmanship/clever 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

Got some paint on the big ex LSWR bracket now. All the mechanical linkages from base to weight bars are now done, so all the difficult stuff is done. Not far to go to finishing it now! DSC_1390.JPG.60310402ee0208341ec6814e2e3b6ab1.JPG

  • Like 7
  • Craftsmanship/clever 6
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

Time for a quick update!

Still on a sort of SR theme..sort of! I have 3 S&DJR era signals to build of a Stevens/SR design for a model of Radstock (not mine I hasten to add!)

The arms are the MSE super 7 version.

773162484_DSC_1481(576x1024).jpg.d4121cf3510a7b051e55699319caf556.jpg1886418095_DSC_1482(576x1024).jpg.254c93dedbb78048e04f07539c987fed.jpg

 

The main lattice post is 30ft but extended rather roughly to 34ft on the first one and 40ft (!) on the second one using offcuts from other etches.

 

1530826713_DSC_1509(576x1024).jpg.4d9f90380b495a06bfaf6463f892aad6.jpg1738428131_DSC_1562(576x1024).jpg.62c9dada63d27d0a68f33769ee464a5d.jpg1912753374_DSC_1563(576x1024).jpg.0b832451fd63f6166dbd97f1cd41d035.jpg1388844006_DSC_1564(576x1024).jpg.da66f064a7c7e188885bff0a8e08fad3.jpg

 

The 3rd signal will be a very lofty bracket signal that will require me to design a few etches...

 

More soon

 

JF

  • Like 4
  • Craftsmanship/clever 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...