RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted January 18, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2022 4 minutes ago, Phatbob said: IIRC the roof is also different (exhaust and boiler openings). Is this also being changed? (Apologies if my memory has failed me). Boiler ports varied from loco to loco … photo essential but easy to vary with plasticard. Exhaust ports interesting… wasn’t aware of that! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phatbob Posted January 19, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2022 17 hours ago, Phil Bullock said: Boiler ports varied from loco to loco … photo essential but easy to vary with plasticard. Exhaust ports interesting… wasn’t aware of that! As you were! I found a photo () and it looks like the exhaust is in the same place as the existing tooling, as is the radiator fan grill. The other "holes in the roof" are definitely in different places though. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Downendian Posted January 19, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 19, 2022 (edited) Re boiler exhaust ports - see a nearly 10 year old post by our learned friend Flood Edited January 19, 2022 by Downendian Boiler 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pteremy Posted January 20, 2022 Share Posted January 20, 2022 Thanks for reminding us of this thread. All the original Dapol releases appear to have a large boiler exhaust 'grill', like the one illustrated for D6311 in the old thread, but with the caveat that a cover plate could be missing. (At least the ones I have do!) Roof detail does not get much attention in the reference books I have, so I don't know if this was in any sense the 'original style': Dapol must have had a reason for modelling it like that? The 'caption' to the illustrations rather suggests that the later 'revised front' engines (D6334 onwards) would have had a cover plate in the style of the third illustration? So in theory Dapol could do that as part of their retool? Equally though I suspect that Phil is right, and it should be relatively straightforward to fashion a cover plate from plasticard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted January 20, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2022 26 minutes ago, Pteremy said: Thanks for reminding us of this thread. All the original Dapol releases appear to have a large boiler exhaust 'grill', like the one illustrated for D6311 in the old thread, but with the caveat that a cover plate could be missing. (At least the ones I have do!) Roof detail does not get much attention in the reference books I have, so I don't know if this was in any sense the 'original style': Dapol must have had a reason for modelling it like that? The 'caption' to the illustrations rather suggests that the later 'revised front' engines (D6334 onwards) would have had a cover plate in the style of the third illustration? So in theory Dapol could do that as part of their retool? Equally though I suspect that Phil is right, and it should be relatively straightforward to fashion a cover plate from plasticard. Roof detail can be difficult to find photos of for most diesels… yet it’s the angle we most commonly view our models from ! 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Roy Langridge Posted January 21, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2022 On 20/01/2022 at 10:25, Phil Bullock said: Roof detail can be difficult to find photos of for most diesels… yet it’s the angle we most commonly view our models from ! That one has always surprised me - given that so often I see people taking photos from bridges looking downwards, why do we rarely see the results? Roy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted January 21, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 21, 2022 49 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said: That one has always surprised me - given that so often I see people taking photos from bridges looking downwards, why do we rarely see the results? Roy Because the number of the loco wasn’t recorded and therefore the subject of the photo can’t be identified? Guilty as charged m’lud…. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pteremy Posted January 21, 2022 Share Posted January 21, 2022 Reverting to the fronts I find D6323 interesting. There are photographs of it with 'backing'/'blanking plates' where head code boxes should be. For example, p59 Modern Locomotives Illustrated 197 - Callington, 7/9/64. The caption suggests that these plates are base plates for the interim 'bolt on' style of head code box. But the other features (other than the 2 part doors) look to me to be a revised front end, as used D6334 onwards, rather than the original style that D6323 was built with. Is it possible that a 'revised front end' could have been used to repair e.g. accident damage? Apparently the other end was still in original condition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidlandRed Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) Great news that Dapol are going to release some examples of the later batch of locos. Ive now read through the whole 68 pages of this thread. Whilst understanding the machinations about the detail of individual locos and particularly those with the obviously large and high mounted initial headcode units, one thing does not seem to have been covered. All of the locos repainted blue fye have, to my eye especially noticeable features of number and BR symbol application - even more so in the case of the earlier repaints (number above symbol). In all of the photos I’ve seen the serif numbers are located almost directly under the cab windows, and those raised holders (presumably for crew names - but they look exactly like the garage and duty number holders on LT/TfL buses) have been removed to facilitate this. In the case of the later repaints (symbol above the number), the symbol is mounted directly under the cab windows - butted almost up to them - and again the raised holders are removed. To my eyes, the positioning of these numbers/symbols is a crucial element in the look of the blue fye locos - to be honest these are the ones I mostly remember seeing in use in London, Devon, Cornwall and Gloucester during spotting days. Otherwise, the model is great, although mine has a slight waddle on the rollers - not on the track. I noticed that Phil Bullock has captured this in his D6342, particularly, and presume he removed the offending moulding from the Dapol model to enable the transfer to sit in the correct place. All of the Dapol models issued so far have the moulding for the name holders so none of the blue fye have the numbers and symbols aligned correctly, as per prototype - they’re significantly lower. Call me Mr Picky, but I would really like Dapol to consider getting this right in the new model run? I don’t know what other people think? This really came to light recently when I bought a bfye D6332 and had it renumbered D6322 (don’t ask - I was after an 82A allocated loco correct for Worcestershire/ Gloucestershire in BFYE 1967-8 - and hadn’t read this thread where it’s non standard features on one end were revealed). However I can live with the headcodes being slightly too high on one end (0.5 to just over 1 mm) and one or two frontal details on that end being slightly inaccurate (although I’ve actually never seen a photo of the non-standard end of D6322) but I was very disappointed with the look of the renumbering which is almost entirely caused by the numbers being mounted several millimetres too low owing to the raised moulding (which the loco didn’t have after blue fye repaint)!! Having looked through the Flickr class 22 group photos, I was very surprised to see one of a recently delivered D6320 in green no yellow panel and with no name holders, with slightly higher mounted numbers. There is a later photo of the same loco with them fitted and the numbers lowered to accommodate. The delivery photo of the pair of D633x show them fitted. So is it the case that some it not all of the earlier deliveries had these holders retro-fitted at some point after delivery, by the WR? Yet another unexpected complication of detail in this small group of locos!! Edited January 31, 2022 by MidlandRed 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted January 31, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 31, 2022 7 hours ago, MidlandRed said: Great news that Dapol are going to release some examples of the later batch of locos. Ive now read through the whole 68 pages of this thread. Whilst understanding the machinations about the detail of individual locos and particularly those with the obviously large and high mounted initial headcode units, one thing does not seem to have been covered. All of the locos repainted blue fye have, to my eye especially noticeable features of number and BR symbol application - even more so in the case of the earlier repaints (number above symbol). In all of the photos I’ve seen the serif numbers are located almost directly under the cab windows, and those raised holders (presumably for crew names - but they look exactly like the garage and duty number holders on LT/TfL buses) have been removed to facilitate this. In the case of the later repaints (symbol above the number), the symbol is mounted directly under the cab windows - butted almost up to them - and again the raised holders are removed. To my eyes, the positioning of these numbers/symbols is a crucial element in the look of the blue fye locos - to be honest these are the ones I mostly remember seeing in use in London, Devon, Cornwall and Gloucester during spotting days. Otherwise, the model is great, although mine has a slight waddle on the rollers - not on the track. I noticed that Phil Bullock has captured this in his D6342, particularly, and presume he removed the offending moulding from the Dapol model to enable the transfer to sit in the correct place. All of the Dapol models issued so far have the moulding for the name holders so none of the blue fye have the numbers and symbols aligned correctly, as per prototype - they’re significantly lower. Call me Mr Picky, but I would really like Dapol to consider getting this right in the new model run? I don’t know what other people think? This really came to light recently when I bought a bfye D6332 and had it renumbered D6322 (don’t ask - I was after an 82A allocated loco correct for Worcestershire/ Gloucestershire in BFYE 1967-8 - and hadn’t read this thread where it’s non standard features on one end were revealed). However I can live with the headcodes being slightly too high on one end (0.5 to just over 1 mm) and one or two frontal details on that end being slightly inaccurate (although I’ve actually never seen a photo of the non-standard end of D6322) but I was very disappointed with the look of the renumbering which is almost entirely caused by the numbers being mounted several millimetres too low owing to the raised moulding (which the loco didn’t have after blue fye repaint)!! Having looked through the Flickr class 22 group photos, I was very surprised to see one of a recently delivered D6320 in green no yellow panel and with no name holders, with slightly higher mounted numbers. There is a later photo of the same loco with them fitted and the numbers lowered to accommodate. The delivery photo of the pair of D633x show them fitted. So is it the case that some it not all of the earlier deliveries had these holders retro-fitted at some point after delivery, by the WR? Yet another unexpected complication of detail in this small group of locos!! Correct re the drivers name card holder on D6342 as you say a characteristic feature. Renumbering not too difficult although given the front end work that loco has had a complete repaint. Not sure how much of a scar just removing the holder might leave, you might get away with careful removal and touch up as the number will be over the scar …. Although matching Dapol blue for the touch up not straightforwards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidlandRed Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 (edited) 8 hours ago, Phil Bullock said: Correct re the drivers name card holder on D6342 as you say a characteristic feature. Renumbering not too difficult although given the front end work that loco has had a complete repaint. Not sure how much of a scar just removing the holder might leave, you might get away with careful removal and touch up as the number will be over the scar …. Although matching Dapol blue for the touch up not straightforwards. I noticed the alignment of the numbers as soon as I saw the photo of your conversions, and realised they’d been repainted. They look great, by the way and having achieved this, it seems always to be the case the manufacturer announces a new run with similar modifications I had thought of trying what you say but the card holder mouldings will no doubt be capable of removal but will certainly leave a scar and I agree, would be extremely difficult to match with touch up paint - even though with care the scars would be under the numbers - thus I’m not risking it as I don’t want to have to repaint the loco!! On the question of the colour, I initially thought my model had been provided with the wrong coloured valances, having such a green tinge!!! However I quite like the colour of the model overall in terms of a 1966/67 rail blue application. When my SLW class 25, D7666 arrives (as built, 1967 rail blue) it will be interesting to see the contrast. As I said, I’m hopeful Dapol can address the issue of removing the under cab window card holder mountings and aligning the numbers/symbols correctly on the blue fye new releases (NB the blue SYP locos appear to have retained the card holders and have the numbers aligned exactly as they are on a green loco). Edited January 31, 2022 by MidlandRed 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pteremy Posted October 12, 2022 Share Posted October 12, 2022 Has there been a news about the retooled versions? The photographs used online for preorders are still the original versions. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Tim Dubya Posted October 12, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 12, 2022 29 minutes ago, Pteremy said: Has there been a news about the retooled versions? The photographs used online for preorders are still the original versions. Ah, I'd forgotten about these. I hope they get here around about the same time my list goes in to Santa! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted November 26, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 26, 2022 On 12/10/2022 at 08:43, Pteremy said: Has there been a news about the retooled versions? The photographs used online for preorders are still the original versions. @Downendian and I were at Warley today. These taken from the EP in the Dapol cabinet. 10 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidlandRed Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 On 26/11/2022 at 22:16, Phil Bullock said: @Downendian and I were at Warley today. These taken from the EP in the Dapol cabinet. I wish they would also do it without the crew name holder - then they could do the blue versions with numbers and logos correctly with the correct spacings. This affects all of the blue versions except those with logo on the body side (I.e almost all of them!!) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted November 29, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 29, 2022 6 hours ago, MidlandRed said: I wish they would also do it without the crew name holder - then they could do the blue versions with numbers and logos correctly with the correct spacings. This affects all of the blue versions except those with logo on the body side (I.e almost all of them!!) I removed them when I did D6336 and D6342 … but then I did respray them. Wonder if you could carefully excise with shaft blade and touch up … as you say the number will go over the spot . Also depends on how good the blue colour tone is I guess… 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidlandRed Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 (edited) 9 hours ago, Phil Bullock said: I removed them when I did D6336 and D6342 … but then I did respray them. Wonder if you could carefully excise with shaft blade and touch up … as you say the number will go over the spot . Also depends on how good the blue colour tone is I guess… Yeah I remember, and very good they look too - I’ve never plucked up courage to redo mine - I don’t think it would be possible to match the paint colour if needed, so would require a respray. I’m just worried that having updated the model, Dapol wont be able to do blue liveried versions of this update with accurately placed numbers and symbols with the holders on the cab side. Edited November 29, 2022 by MidlandRed 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halvarras Posted November 29, 2022 Share Posted November 29, 2022 The driver's name card holders are a bugbear of mine too with this model - as @MidlandRed says their presence compromises the number/logo positioning on the BFYE models (and D6312 in GFYE, not that they have done that one yet and it had the 'eyebrow' vents anyway......) When the CADs for Kernow's D6xx Warship first broke cover I noticed these holders were present and, foreseeing similar problems with D600 'Active' in BFYE (which I had on pre-order, because I remember seeing the real one a couple of times), I did some research on the subject. D600 itself never had them (interestingly neither did D870 'Zulu') - D601 was built without them but gained them later. Swindon-built Westerns didn't have them but Crewe-built did (one way to narrow down unidentified Westerns in photos). The positioning of the holders on Warships D836-65 differed slightly from D800-35/66-9, being an inch or so lower, and those on D800-2 were single-piece 'flattened U' shaped instead of the usual pair of opposing 'L' brackets. Most D8xx blue repaints retained them but many did not. I pointed out to Kernow that neither the Dapol Western nor Bachmann Class 43 Warship displayed this feature despite being recent high-spec models and there had been no comment, so producing the D6xx without them shouldn't be an issue and ensure that D600 itself could be accurately decorated - and so it was. I won't take credit for this as they may well have arrived at the same conclusion without any input from me! So it is a pity that Dapol didn't apply the same logic to the Class 22 as they did to the Western, as the absence of the holders on BFYE 22s is easily discernible in photos. I have a BFYE D6318 which I hope to eventually respray as 6319 - the holders will go and so will the insipid blue and yellow! The glazing and cab interiors have already been freed and those loose valances sorted (my candidate for the 'Worst-ever Feature on an RTR Diesel Award'!) At some point I'll post something on how I did this as I have others to do but it involves superglue, four track nails and a bit of drilling.........perhaps you can figure out what I did!🤔😃 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted November 29, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 29, 2022 2 hours ago, MidlandRed said: Yeah I remember, and very good they look too - I’ve never plucked up courage to redo mine - I don’t think it would be possible to match the paint colour if needed, so would require a respray. I’m just worried that having updated the model, Dapol wont be able to do blue liveried versions of this update with accurately placed numbers and symbols with the holders on the cab side. The alternative is not to have them there… and add them if needed. A purpose made etch would be good … we used .50 cal ammo belt links from a 1:32 B17 detailing etch which we happened to have to hand … perfect size. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted November 29, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 29, 2022 1 hour ago, Phil Bullock said: The alternative is not to have them there… and add them if needed. A purpose made etch would be good … we used .50 cal ammo belt links from a 1:32 B17 detailing etch which we happened to have to hand … perfect size. Well, we've all got one of those stashed away! Mike. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pteremy Posted May 14, 2023 Share Posted May 14, 2023 Another 6 months has gone by - does anyone know if delivery timetable has been revised? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted September 16, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 16, 2023 On 14/05/2023 at 16:36, Pteremy said: Another 6 months has gone by - does anyone know if delivery timetable has been revised? Rails now showing as due September/October for D6352. Artwork is still a photo of D6326 so not possible to judge if drivers name card holders are present or not… 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEngineShed Posted September 20, 2023 Share Posted September 20, 2023 HURRAH! Looks like they are imminent... https://www.hattons.co.uk/directory/versiondetails/article?id=310 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Tim Dubya Posted September 22, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 22, 2023 On 21/09/2023 at 00:30, TheEngineShed said: HURRAH! Looks like they are imminent... How did Dapol know it was my birthday? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pteremy Posted September 22, 2023 Share Posted September 22, 2023 A pity that there are still no pictures showing the revisions - a cynic would probably suspect that they have something to hide. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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