GCR Coaches

[jrg1]

This will be of no immediate help, but I was talking to a gentleman on Saturday who is actively working on a book on GC coaches, which he hopes will be available within three years from a very reputable publisher.

 

The short answer to your question, is there is no simple answer to your question. Over a section of railway as important as the GW and GC mainline, almost anything could appear, if only on excursions, about the only thing I would exclude in the time frame are the four wheelers - sadly about the most readily available 4mm kit at the moment. (Bill Bedford).

 

I think regular trains would be dominated by the latest Robinson bogie stock, given that this was the part of the GC that got the best stuff, even on locals. Your best bet is probably to study photos from the era.

 

There have never been that many kits. D&S used to provide a whole range of 4mm Robinson stock, but these will be like hen's teeth now. Perseverance used to do some clerestories (which had some faults) I am not sure whether these can be obtained either nowadays. The GCRS has the rights to some Pollitt stock, but I'm not sure where they are up to with making them available. There is some 'scratch aid' stuff available from Worsley Works. That's about it. You will probably have to scratch build. There are some useful drawings (albeit basic) at the back of George Dow's Great Central, volume 3.

 

Good luck with the project.

Very interested to hear of the planned publication.  I think the GCR is under-represented in the literary stakes, and deserves a higher profile.  Apart from the Irwell volumes on locomotives, and various wagon descriptions/drawings in Tatlow's LNER wagon history, there is not much.  An Illustrated history of GCR Coaching Stock would fill a huge gap, and another on GCR Architecture would be wonderful.  I am rather surprised at the dearth of photographs of the GCR lines in Lincolnshire, compared to the GNR and M&GNR and even the MR.  It would be nice to see more publications dealing with the GCR.

[Skaran]

Ordered a rake from Mousa. Have to source roofs and bogies but now I will be aquiring somewhere to build the layout in the new year. So layout planning is now on the go. Something like Bicester perhaps?

[billbedford]

Roofs are available here, bogies I will be able to supply in the new year.

Edited December 23, 2016 by billbedford

[Skaran]

That's great news. I presume you mean Shapeways for the roof? The link in the text goes to a place called showme.

[billbedford]

The URL should work as expected now.

[Skaran]

The link is now working properly. Thanks Bill.

[billbedford]

The SECR seemed not to have built corridor coaches for it's own trains until around 1920. So I would assume that any through coaches from the GC would have been one of the 50' clerestory or elliptical roofed brake composites which were built especially for this type of service. 

[richard i]

The gcr is great. There is stuff out there but you HAVE to build it. Bill has a large range of coaches which is a god send at mousa models. The rest is old kits, kit bashing and doing it yourself scratchbuild it. Having seen what you have done with Pullmans Alex I would say you would fit in modeling it. 
come over to the dark side. 
richard 

[Guy Rixon]

8 hours ago, AVS1998 said:

 

I did mention that there was a specific set of 15 corridor composite brakes built by the SECR for through services... 

 

''Corridor Composite Brakes, SECR Nos. 902-916 (SR Nos. 6622-36)

 

These 15 beautifully-designed carriages were built at Ashford in 1907 and, because they were intended to be used in through train services between the SE&C and the Northern lines, were fully equipped with side corridors and external end gangways - or, to use SE&C terminology, 'vestibules' ''. (Gould, Bogie Carriages of the South Eastern and Chatham Railway, p. 130).

 

Although perhaps you were right about non-corridor vehicles being utilised, upon rereading the section pertaining to GCR through services in Gould (Italics mine);

 

''By May 1907 Nos. 3251 and 3253 (Lavatory Thirds) were allocated to the through service between Deal and the Great Western and Great Central Railways that had started in 1903. Leaving Deal, the front four coaches (GC Composite, GW Slip Composite, SEC Third (as above) GWR Composite Brake) were for Birkenhead etc;'' (Gould, p. 73).

 

So, a non-corridor Composite, perhaps not a brake after all... 

Edit: On the other hand, I have been conversing with the LNER Society and it is possible (I thought as much) that corridor interregional coaches were used by the GCR relatively early,as they were considered 'prestige' services (after all, the company's reputation was being represented by the stock it put forward for use on foreign metals), and  would be meeting with other corridor coaches from other companies. As an advertisement in 1923 states that such interregional trains ran with:

 

''Restaurant cars Sheffield to Banbury and Banbury to Deal, Restaurant cars Deal to Banbury and Banbury to Sheffield''. (Source: LNER Society).

 

Apologies for filling up this thread with my research, by the way!

In the 1903 example, the coaches of three companies go on to Birkenhead together, so I presume that the GWR provided the guard and the luggage of GCR and SECR passengers was conveyed in the GWR brakes.  If the GCR's through coach had gone separately to a different destination it would have needed luggage space, but possibly not guard's facilities as it might well have been part of other trains for its whole journey. The LNWR had several types of luggage (non-brake) composites for this role. I know that the MSLR had at least one kind of luggage tricomposite as there's a model of one on Shapeways.

[billbedford]

2 hours ago, Guy Rixon said:

In the 1903 example, the coaches of three companies go on to Birkenhead together, so I presume that the GWR provided the guard and the luggage of GCR and SECR passengers was conveyed in the GWR brakes.  If the GCR's through coach had gone separately to a different destination it would have needed luggage space, but possibly not guard's facilities as it might well have been part of other trains for its whole journey. The LNWR had several types of luggage (non-brake) composites for this role. I know that the MSLR had at least one kind of luggage tricomposite as there's a model of one on Shapeways.

 

That doesn't sound at all correct. A GC Deal - Birkenhead would not have produced any revenue for the GC since it wouldn't have travelled over any of the companies lines. It's more likely that the service was a Deal - Manchester through coach. 

Edited May 1, 2020 by billbedford

[Guy Rixon]

1 hour ago, billbedford said:

 

That doesn't sound at all correct. A GC Deal - Birkenhead would not have produced any revenue for the GC since it wouldn't have travelled over any of the companies lines. It's more likely that the service was a Deal - Manchester through coach. 

From memory, there was a through coach between Manchester and Deal at one time; perhaps this is it. However, the principal stands: not all the coaches for one destination need brake and luggage space. If the GCR coach is the only one going to Manchester, does it have a luggage compartment or is the luggage for Manchester moved between vehicles?

[billbedford]

It depends where and how it was transferred between companies. In general through coaches had at least one brake in the set, mainly I suspect, because otherwise the passengers would have to be de-trained for the shunting moves. 

[Steamport Southport]

On 30/04/2020 at 21:54, AVS1998 said:

 

I did mention that there was a specific set of 15 corridor composite brakes built by the SECR for through services... 

 

''Corridor Composite Brakes, SECR Nos. 902-916 (SR Nos. 6622-36)

 

These 15 beautifully-designed carriages were built at Ashford in 1907 and, because they were intended to be used in through train services between the SE&C and the Northern lines, were fully equipped with side corridors and external end gangways - or, to use SE&C terminology, 'vestibules' ''. (Gould, Bogie Carriages of the South Eastern and Chatham Railway, p. 130).

 

Although perhaps you were right about non-corridor vehicles being utilised, upon rereading the section pertaining to GCR through services in Gould (Italics mine);

 

''By May 1907 Nos. 3251 and 3253 (Lavatory Thirds) were allocated to the through service between Deal and the Great Western and Great Central Railways that had started in 1903. Leaving Deal, the front four coaches (GC Composite, GW Slip Composite, SEC Third (as above) GWR Composite Brake) were for Birkenhead etc;'' (Gould, p. 73).

 

So, a non-corridor Composite, perhaps not a brake after all... 

Edit: On the other hand, I have been conversing with the LNER Society and it is possible (I thought as much) that corridor interregional coaches were used by the GCR relatively early,as they were considered 'prestige' services (after all, the company's reputation was being represented by the stock it put forward for use on foreign metals), and  would be meeting with other corridor coaches from other companies. As an advertisement in 1923 states that such interregional trains ran with:

 

''Restaurant cars Sheffield to Banbury and Banbury to Deal, Restaurant cars Deal to Banbury and Banbury to Sheffield''. (Source: LNER Society).

 

Apologies for filling up this thread with my research, by the way!

 

These.

 

https://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/product/140/4c35-secr-50ft-brake-composite/

 

SECR 50ft Brake Composite

SR Diag 425 Built in 1907 for through services to the Midland and other Railways. Later used as brake ends for longer sets through to BR days.

 

 

Jason

[Guy Rixon]

On 04/05/2020 at 20:46, Steamport Southport said:

 

These.

 

https://www.roxeymouldings.co.uk/product/140/4c35-secr-50ft-brake-composite/

 

SECR 50ft Brake Composite

SR Diag 425 Built in 1907 for through services to the Midland and other Railways. Later used as brake ends for longer sets through to BR days.

 

 

Jason

And Worsley Works do D423, one of the tricomposite versions.