Thief at EM North

[Andy Y]

There was another loco taken from a layout (Chris's and Charles) , a midland flat iorn in mr red with the number 2020 according to Derek

 

I had dropped Charles an email to see which of his Flatirons it was; based on your info it's worth posting a photo of what to keep an eye open for.

 

[Edwardian]

Or just an opportunist in the area at the time who saw a model railway show, realised they might be expensive, and stole something. They might be surprised to find that it doesn't even run on 00 track (or more likely whoever they sold it to might be). Hopefully that'll increase the chances of them appearing on eBay and being recovered.

 

Perhaps.  Odd to choose an EM show, as opposed to one catering for the mass market, but, then, it could have been an opportunistic passer-by.

 

I am not sure such speculations assists the efforts to locate these items. 

 

I suspect all we can do is keep a look out and hope for the best.

[Ian J.]

That this kind of thing happens at all is bad, but at a specialist show is very disheartening. I hope you get the model back Chris.

 

And yes, I'm in agreement with a previous poster that having cameras on a layout or stand for evidence is probably a very good idea, especially now that such things are not horrendously expensive*

 

 

* relative to the cost of a Bachmann or Hornby locomotive, anyway...

[steggy1990]

cant belive this has happened seems u have to have eyes everywere at these shows . im sorry to hear this has happened ..

[Adam]

It may just be coincidence - and in all likelihood is - but Mike Edge had a display model lifted from his stand at the Manchester show three years back (I don't believe that it has been recovered but I may be wrong). The mode of theft seems to have been similar which automatically raises suspicions.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/45248-judith-edge-kits/?p=1182081

 

Adam

[Rail-Online]

And Brassmasters had a finished Deeley 0-4-0ST stolen off the trade stand at last years Manchester MRS show.

 

This too was a finished small loco and in P4 and fitted with a Portescap.

Here's the actual one:

 

http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/deeley.htm

 

Brassmasters were next to High level at Expo EM North last weekend as well.

 

Tony

[Poggy1165]

To say this is annoying is putting it mildly. For an excellent show (sadly relatively thinly attended) to be marred by incidents like this leaves a vile taste in the mouth, and you can understand people (traders and exhibitors) thinking 'it's not worth it!' for the future. It's even worse that these locos are not simple or cheap to replace.

 

It's been going on for years though. I remember a similar incident at Wakefield a long while back. There is, must be, a criminal element within the hobby. It's not like there was a massive banner outside advertising this show, you pretty well had to know it was on. I'm sure, percentage wise, the criminal element is tiny, but that's no comfort to those who have lost models.

 

I just hope that, for once, justice is done.

[Michael Edge]

It may just be coincidence - and in all likelihood is - but Mike Edge had a display model lifted from his stand at the Manchester show three years back (I don't believe that it has been recovered but I may be wrong). The mode of theft seems to have been similar which automatically raises suspicions.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/45248-judith-edge-kits/?p=1182081

 

Adam

Yes, that remains the only item we have had stolen in 14 years. With these two shows being in the same area it may well be the same thief.

This was the loco we lost, annoying that it was actually mine, rather than purely display stock.

attachment=755042:PWM650 rf.JPG]

I hope the thief was really disappointed to find it had no motor, being built to run in a PW train. I still haven't got round to replacing it.

[Porcy Mane]

I know it's no good speculating but maybe we have a kleptomaniac within our midst & living somewhere along the M62 corridor? I'd like to think he/she isn't reading this thread and sniggering up his sleeve.

 

P

[Adam]

So, at this show, two locos (a Midland Flatiron from a layout and Chris's GER 'coffeepot' from his trade stand) were taken. At last year's Manchester show, a loco was taken from the Brassmaster's stand (see also PMP's post below) and at the same show in 2013, another loco was taken from Mike Edge's stand. Thefts of completed finescale locos from shows are relatively unusual (or at least, if they are not, they are certainly relatively little publicised) and since these are all in the same area, circumstantial though it might be, there is just a hint that the same individual may be at work.

 

Resale seems an unlikely motive - for the reasons Phil notes above - so Porcy, you're probably in the right sort of ballpark.

 

Adam

[t-b-g]

These thefts have well and truly taken the gloss off an otherwise excellent weekend. Knowing the victims of 2 of the thefts, it is dreadful that such things have happened to two such good people.

 

Such models must have a very limited resale market, being firstly in minority gauges and secondly being both fairly obscure prototypes.

 

Let us hope those factors make them easy to recover.

 

I do sometimes wonder about what is the best approach in such circumstances. Is it better to have a big splash of publicity, which may result in the toe-rags deciding to chuck them away rather than risk being caught, or is it better to keep it low key and keep an eye out via second hand shops, ebay etc. in the hope that they get put up for sale and can be traced more easily?

 

Either approach has good and bad points. Perhaps an RMWebber with some professional knowledge of such things could advise us.

 

The late George Norton did indeed have three locos lifted from under his stand when EXPO EM North was in Wakefield. He was upset about it for the rest of his days.

 

Hopefully, whoever has dome this is an opportunist from outside the hobby and not an enthusiast and RMWebber. If they are, they will have been well and truly tipped off.

 

It really brings it home what risks we take when we take our treasures to shows, especially those loving hand crafted rather than RTR items, which can usually be replaced fairly easily.

 

Tony Gee

[High Level Kits]

Undoubtedly, they will have a limited resale value in the UK, but this may not have been known to the thief. My hopes are pinned on some idiot chancer not realising just how unique these types of models are, trying to flog them and being found out that way. They might be able to get away with it would be to sell them overseas, as is the case with stolen, high-end cars.

 

If it's a British finescale 'collector' then they will have to be a very lonely modeller, or, keep these well out of the way of any other modellers who visit. 

[Captain Kernow]

I know it's no good speculating but maybe we have a kleptomaniac within our midst & living somewhere along the M62 corridor?

 

 

 

If it's a British finescale 'collector' then they will have to be a very lonely modeller, or, keep these well out of the way of any other modellers who visit. 

I was wondering if it was something along those lines. It may be, if it's the same 'lonely kleptomaniac' that this individual also has mental health problems.

 

I do think that the suggestion of checking any CCTV is a good one, too.

[Porcy Mane]

If it's a British finescale 'collector' then they will have to be a very lonely modeller, 

 

No place for humour in a thread like this, but that profile is probably how 95% of the British Public perceive the average "railway modeller".

There is no doubt that the individual(s) who took these locos on Sunday is/are very sad, incredibly lonely and *---------* specimens.

 

*--------* Insert derogatory term of your own choosing here.

[Gordon A]

Sorry to hear of your loss Chris.

 

Gordon A

[Worsdell forever]

Also frightening that my NER 1001 class loco was stood on the fiddleyard most of the weekend.

[Nigelcliffe]

I'm also saddened by the news of the thefts, Chris' coffee pot is a favourite prototype of mine (and I have an only-just started example bought years ago). 

 

One thing which hasn't been mentioned is the print press.   I hope that Chris et. al will ask the editors of the model press to mention this, everything from MRJ through BRM to Railway Modeller.   Only a fraction of modellers are regular online forum users, and the print press will reach another group.   It needs to be a wide spread of titles because we've no idea whether the models will surface as offered to finescaler's or on the general 4mm used-trainset market, or anywhere in between. 

 

 

- Nigel

 

 

[PMP]

And Brassmasters had a finished Deeley 0-4-0ST stolen off the trade stand at last years Manchester MRS show.

 

This too was a finished small loco and in P4 and fitted with a Portescap.

Here's the actual one:

 

http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/deeley.htm

 

Brassmasters were next to High level at Expo EM North last weekend as well.

 

Tony

Unfortunately at the same show my Sentinel was stolen from the Shawplan stand. Again a unique and distinctive loco which was used for the laser glaze development. Brian and his team were gutted, as it was on loan and had been to many shows with him. If anyone sees it please let us know.

[Red Devil]

If they've not been nicked for 'personal use' then keep an eye out for far longer than you think......  a friend of mine suffered  spate of break ins over a period of months, amongst the items stolen were a number of boxed Halling articulated trams, these eventually turned up with a well known and often discussed ebay dealer, who to his credit arranged their return home very swiftly......they had undoubtedly passed through a number of hands to get where they did....

 

So keep looking and I hope that you have a similar result.

[High Level Kits]

I would be very grateful to anyone who can help to circulate this, to whoever they think might be useful.  As a trader, I have certain contacts, but customers, as model railway shoppers, are familiar with the hobby from the other side of the counter and know more about how this side of things works than traders do.

 

Saturating the model railway scene with the news of this and other similar crimes can only do good. Light-fingered scrotes may think twice, although there’s not much we can do about those who just nick things for the sake of it, but at least in narrows it down!... 

[DerekEm8]

Interestingly, a mate of mine had a Cotswold kit for an L&Y saddle tank nicked from the Members' Sales stand as well. Obviously some thieving little scrote on the prowl there.

 

Dave. 

Dave,

 

I would carefully consider what you write on a public forum in future If I were you.

 

Every Item that was on the Members Sales Stand and on the listings presented to the staff HAS been accounted for either by return to the owner (ie not sold) or the owner paid the agreed amount.

 

We are having enough problems resolving these thefts after the event without people (such as your self)  spreading malicious rumours

 

Derek Evans

expoEM North 2016 Exhibition Manager

[Edwardian]

I don't know what view the police take on such matters, but these are items that are unique and virtually irreplaceable, so monetary compensation (assuming they were insured) is particularly inadequate.

 

In these circumstances, the last thing you want to do is encourage a thief to bin them as too hot to handle.  You want them back intact. 

 

Given this, would publicising an amnesty, or, even, a reward, be the best chance of seeing them again?

 

Anyone who honestly comes by them would voluntarily return them, indeed, would be legally obliged too.  It is the less than pure who need an incentive to do the right thing, as opposed to throwing them away.

[Horsetan]

.... a well known and often discussed ebay dealer, who to his credit arranged their return home very swiftly.....

 

eBay themselves will not do anything if a stolen item turns up on the listings, unless the Police are involved.

[Kelly]

It is very sad when you have to read of such an occurrence

[Earlswood Nob]

I think it is disgusting, and have sympathy for those who have lost models.

 

If it was an opportunist, why steal EM models as they would be more difficult to sell.

 

Either they were stolen to order, or by someone who didn't know the difference between EM and 00.

 

I hope the culprit/ culprits are caught, but they would probably get a slapped wrist and told not to do it again.

 

Earlswood nob