Thief at EM North

[Alan J Kirkman]

If they've not been nicked for 'personal use' then keep an eye out for far longer than you think......  a friend of mine suffered  spate of break ins over a period of months, amongst the items stolen were a number of boxed Halling articulated trams, these eventually turned up with a well known and often discussed ebay dealer, who to his credit arranged their return home very swiftly......they had undoubtedly passed through a number of hands to get where they did....

 

So keep looking and I hope that you have a similar result.

 

As the person who had this break in I would point out this bunch of scrotes only stole things in manufacturers boxes they could hopefully fence easily for cash and that's why about 2/3rd have turned up in 2 lots. They left anything kit or scratch built. This situation is very different and adding to what has already been said there was also a theft from the exhibition at Heaton Park Tramway last September 2015. Two 4mm trams an old but just remotored PC Models Blackpool Pantograph and a just finshed ELMTS resin Blackpool 680 both with live overhead Halling type mechanisms. Unusual and unique items again and in Manchester. There has not been sight or sound of them since and the tram community was alerted on line in minutes of them being missed. It would seem that the Manchester Area and unusual items is happening a bit too often to be a coincidence .

[MartinWales]

By the way, perhaps the open fire door at the back of the hall could have been a contributory factor...

 

D.

Which was manned!

[mark axlecounter]

I have informed the local model shops and also put pics of the locos in the club at Heywood. 

I have given the information to a DB driver who visits a lot of model shops to help with this,

 

I hope the locos turn up, I saw Chris and Charles when it happened and it was so sad to see them like that.

[hayfield]

Speaking as someone who spent most of last weekend on the Members Sales stand it was absolutely mental for the first hour after opening and we had people two deep waiting to be served, despite there being six of us there including myself. It is unfortunate that this has happened but with the volume of models being sold in such a short space of time and the natural instinct of the thrifty finescale modeller to bag a bargain we still have to follow a set procedure to ensure that these models and monies received are fully accounted for, especially when dealing with a large number of models that are being purchased, such as the 32 wagons this year or the 58 items purchased by two EMGS members in 2014, not to mention the large amounts of cash involved and the high value items in our temporary care.  

 

 

Having helped out at stands over the years, it is extremely difficult to keep focused all of the time, especially as you say there are times when there is a mad rush to pick up  the better items and the bargains, if a team got it 100% correct then they and the system must be commended. To have a slight bit of confusion about one item which for whatever reason was initially unaccounted for, is understandable, Perhaps the misunderstanding of the checking process which would be carried out and the fact that it would not be looked into till the following day, coupled with the reports of stolen items from the same show would I guess lead a concerned owner and friend to come to what thankfully was the wrong conclusion

 

I don't think there is any slight on the society for either the thefts or misunderstanding over the item which was initially unaccounted for. Lets face it Large retail companies who have much larger resources and experience fail to stop thefts of their goods and items do get mislaid and lost by them. This does not make them bad retailers, its sadly a fact of modern life. On the whole railway modellers are an honest group. Lets hope as a group we keep an eye open for both models and find them

 

By the way I have built a Wills Flatiron and like it so much have 2 other old Wills kits which I plan to rebuild and up-date with some Southeastern Finecast etches Dave kindly sold me. I also would be gutted if some low life stole it 

 

Just out of interest, when we ran shows at my old club we had insurance which covered theft of items, which in someway would have softened the loss

[Jol Wilkinson]

As several replies have shown, theft at shows - often from trade stands - is regrettably not uncommon. Traders in particular may "lose" small items but either aren't aware unless they run a live stock management system. Bigger items - kits, display models, etc. are more obvious losses. However, sometimes these don't seem "logical" thefts, including a display etch from a counter display, an etched loco body without a chassis for a relatively uncommon loco and other such "odd" items I know of from personal experience..

 

Some items are probably stolen for personal "benefit" - which would include RTR items where the thief hasn't got the purchase price. With kit built models it may be less clear as the gauge, etc. variations add another dimension. Again, either someone stealing for themselves, to order (which I think rather unlikely as it probably requires a knowledgeable thief and an equally knowledgeable customer) or simply by the uninformed "speculative" thief. I think it is unlikely that anyone from outside the hobby would target shows like ExpoEM but larger "regional" shows might be seen as a better target. It used not to be uncommon a few years ago at the York show for thefts to occur on the Saturday and  public announcements made to warn people. That could have been just one person returning each year to "stock up" in the knowledge he could get away with it.

 

So, sad/annoying/distressing as it is, it does seem to be a relatively "common" dark side of shows and exhibitions. All we can do is be vigilant, as organisers, exhibitors, traders and visitors.

[Mad McCann]

Which was manned!

Not disputing that, Martin but could you guarantee, especially during the busier moments that eyes would have constantly been trained on it?

Only takes a second for an unauthorised ingress or egress. Part of my old job was identifying weak points such as this.

I offer this only as an observation borne of professional experience.

 

Dave.

[DougN]

I too would like to wish Chris well of the loco turning up. As the loco is so distinctive I hope it turns up sooner rather than later.

 

I am positive if it turns up in a scalefour soc or EMGS member sight a message will be sent. I for one if I saw it turn up here in Melbourne (OK as likely as me winning lotto) I would be straight on to Chris and the police!

 

I do hope it turns up in the post in a box with no notes or anything else. Which would show the individual may have learnt that it will not pay!

[PenrithBeacon]

I think that exhibitors have to start to think about improving security. Install a 'dash-cam' or two on the stand, use 'smart water' to identify exhibits, put exhibits behind glass etc. But don't just sit around and fulminate about the incidents, do something practical!

 

Apart from that, my sympathy to those affected.

 

Regards

[58herbie]

 

What got me more was the attitudes of individuals. I have run sale stands before. when this was discovered there was nobody else there so the stand could of been closed for twenty minutes as that's all it would of took to go through the sale leaflets. Tally up both money in the tin and money on the sheets. Maybe that's just my way of liking to sort issues out straight away rather than leaving folk not knowing if they have lost out.

 

In my job I have to deal with individuals money and medication daily. Any discrepancies dealt with straight away.

 

Thats my pennies worth on the subject.

 

I hope both of the other parties manage to recover their locos. Its a disturbing time and makes me think of not exhibiting my layout which won best in show at expo north 11 years ago and has not been out since. This will probably be felt by other parties with layouts and could start a downward decline of layouts at shows.

 

Having helped out at stands over the years, it is extremely difficult to keep focused all of the time, especially as you say there are times when there is a mad rush to pick up the better items and the bargains, if a team got it 100% correct then they and the system must be commended. To have a slight bit of confusion about one item which for whatever reason was initially unaccounted for, is understandable, Perhaps the misunderstanding of the checking process which would be carried out and the fact that it would not be looked into till the following day, coupled with the reports of stolen items from the same show would I guess lead a concerned owner and friend to come to what thankfully was the wrong conclusion

 

I don't think there is any slight on the society for either the thefts or misunderstanding over the item which was initially unaccounted for. Lets face it Large retail companies who have much larger resources and experience fail to stop thefts of their goods and items do get mislaid and lost by them. This does not make them bad retailers, its sadly a fact of modern life. On the whole railway modellers are an honest group. Lets hope as a group we keep an eye open for both models and find them

 

By the way I have built a Wills Flatiron and like it so much have 2 other old Wills kits which I plan to rebuild and up-date with some Southeastern Finecast etches Dave kindly sold me. I also would be gutted if some low life stole it

 

Just out of interest, when we ran shows at my old club we had insurance which covered theft of items, which in someway would have softened the loss

[Mark Forrest]

I think that exhibitors have to start to think about improving security. Install a 'dash-cam' or two on the stand, use 'smart water' to identify exhibits, put exhibits behind glass etc. But don't just sit around and fulminate about the incidents, do something practical!

 

As an exhibitor who favours operating my layout from the front, necessitating a fiddle yard which is open to the public, these incidents have prompted me to look into CCTV for the fiddle yards. Sad that it needs to come to this, but when a two camera system with a HDD PVR can be had for less that the price of a single RTR loco it seems a worthwhile investment.

[ianblenk]

Hi Chris,

 

Sorry to hear about that, I have a completed one by Dave Franks ( 00 I'm afraid) if you want to borrow it for your stand you are more than welcome.

Just let me know.

 

Ian B

[Coach bogie]

Which was manned!

 My wife came to pick me up on the Saturday and walked in through the fire door unchallenged.

 

Mike Wiltshire

[t-b-g]

What got me more was the attitudes of individuals. I have run sale stands before. when this was discovered there was nobody else there so the stand could of been closed for twenty minutes as that's all it would of took to go through the sale leaflets. Tally up both money in the tin and money on the sheets. Maybe that's just my way of liking to sort issues out straight away rather than leaving folk not knowing if they have lost out.

 

In my job I have to deal with individuals money and medication daily. Any discrepancies dealt with straight away.

 

Thats my pennies worth on the subject.

 

I hope both of the other parties manage to recover their locos. Its a disturbing time and makes me think of not exhibiting my layout which won best in show at expo north 11 years ago and has not been out since. This will probably be felt by other parties with layouts and could start a downward decline of layouts at shows.

 

 

Isn't it time we just let this one go? There was a problem that has been resolved. Things have got a bit heated because emotions are running high after what happened at the show.

 

The stand is run by volunteers, giving up their time for no reward other than the satisfaction of helping the EMGS. This "having a go" at them on a public forum is only going to lead to people saying "sod that, find somebody else to do it next year".

 

Unless of course you are offering to do it yourself next year and show everybody how it should be done.

 

EXPO EM has always been a very relaxed, laid back sort of show. It has always been the sort of show where you can chat to somebody and not worry about what is happening behind your back. That may have changed after the events of this weekend but whatever results, I hope it doesn't change the atmosphere and culture of the show.

 

If we get armed guards on the door, full CCTV coverage and body and bag searches for everybody as they leave, you can count me out. But I will certainly be more vigilant in the future and less likely to leave locos about in tempting places.

[Andy Y]

I think it's a shame that a society which, through volunteer effort, puts on a good show comes under fire on small points all because a calculating toerag takes advantage of goodwill within the hobby.

 

I'm sure it's exasperating for the team to read some of the comments (particularly some on Facebook) when they've put so much effort into the weekend. Support them rather than damage them please.

[Kelly]

I think it's a shame that a society, through volunteer effort, which puts on a good show comes under fire on small points all because a calculating toerag takes advantage of goodwill within the hobby.

 

I'm sure it's exasperating for the team to read some of the comments (particularly some on Facebook) when they've put so much effort into the weekend. Support them rather than damage them please.

 

Exactly Andy. Perhaps it would be best to lock this post and direct people to contact Derek or Chris directly with news of the stolen items.