Scratch-built card and styrene structures (based on real buildings around London Bridge)

[grahame]

I've now cast sufficient bodies that I'm happy with. Here's one in white primer with wire handrails added and resting on one of the as yet unfinished chassis:

 

 

This is quite an involved project and hence progress is slow. There's still plenty to do such as the end steps and platforms, finishing the chassis/underframe (buffers, handbrake, etc), painting and producing and adding decals.

 

[grahame]

Progress has significantly slowed down. I've only added the handrails and locking bars to all three bodies I'll be using and given them a coat of gloss white top coat.

 

 

Andy (acg5324) has kindly sent me some transfers he used for his Interfrigo wagon project and the artwork files used. Consequently I'm looking at trying to draw up some similar artwork in the DTP package I use so that I can learn how to do it for future projects that need decals and it will help for drawing up artwork for etching the end platforms/steps and large distinctive handbrake levers. Andy's artwork and decals will provide a good comparison as to whether my efforts are any good and if necessary I can use them. The large round head buffers that I want (they will need filing to shape to represent the clipped top and bottom ones) are currently OOS with NBL. I'm happy to wait as everything seems to be taking time.

 

 

 

 

[NScaleNotes]

On 14/01/2020 at 08:57, grahame said:

The RTV silicon rubber has set and now the mould is out of the box and the master is out of the mould. And a pot of tea is brewing. A quick visual inspection of the mould reveals that it looks fine and smooth although the real test will be to actually cast a few examples. In the meantime I'll pour myself a nice cuppa.

 

 

I've been following your work for a while but I'm reading this bit with added interest. What you've produced so far looks great but I have a few questions if you don't mind:

Whenever I'd read about casting it says you can't have undercuts unless you have a two part mould. However it looks like you've got quite defined raised detail on the sides of the wagon bodies, a single piece mould and you're pulling out finished models without any problems. You also say there's no shrinkage in the width so how are the parts coming out without breaking or damaging the mould?

Are the moulds more flexible than I'd been imagining?

 

I guess these models work out quite cheap once you've put in the effort to build the master and moulds?

 

Simon

 

P.S. When you get around to it I just commissioned my first set of decals from a Canadian company called Precision Design Co. (https://pdc.ca/rr/custom_decals/) after giving up trying to get a UK company to do it. Amazing quality: the smallest text, which is less than 0.5mm high is readable, so I'd thoroughly recommend PDC if you can't find a UK service to print for you.

[grahame]

17 hours ago, NScaleNotes said:

 

I've been following your work for a while but I'm reading this bit with added interest. What you've produced so far looks great but I have a few questions if you don't mind:

Whenever I'd read about casting it says you can't have undercuts unless you have a two part mould. However it looks like you've got quite defined raised detail on the sides of the wagon bodies, a single piece mould and you're pulling out finished models without any problems. You also say there's no shrinkage in the width so how are the parts coming out without breaking or damaging the mould?

Are the moulds more flexible than I'd been imagining?

 

 

Yes, to some extent. The RTV silicon rubber is, well, rubbery so does have some flexibility. It will stretch and bend a little but there are limitations and I wouldn't force it - it might tear. However, it is certainly flexible enough to cope with relief detail on N/2mm stock and allow casts to be removed. Even a 'tank' type body where the sides tuck under can be comfortable removed:

 

 

I'd suggest what should be avoided are undercuts that slope up inwardly or are large, or lead to a void. Relief detail tends to be pretty small with limited projection and usually with flat horizontal edges so can be accommodated by the mould flexibility. I'd also suggest that the master needs to be sound and solid and has nowhere where the silicon rubber (or even the resin) can seep in or under.  

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by grahame

[NScaleNotes]

Thanks. That's useful to know as I can see a potential use for casting for my own models.

[grahame]

I seem to have been a bit unlucky concerning health this year, so while watching the rugby while convalescing I've embarked on a little modelling in trying to progress the back side (that faces forward) of Fielden House. This side is a lot deeper as the other side sits on a higher level and which I'd mostly completed (as here):

 

 

The tricky latticework of window frames needs to be made for the other side which while not as long is somewhat taller. And fortunately other wall sections are a more simple brick and block, plus much will be hidden behind buildings in front.

 

I've knocked up the left hand end, although not detailed, fully painted or glued in place, and have made the right end section and stairway entrance (to the higher station forecourt level). Fielden House, built in 1954, has now been demolished so this is somewhat a historic model.  

 

[grahame]

The left hand end brick section now is painted, windows added and glued in place, and thoughts have turned to making the middle window/glazed section. The other side's window section was made from styrene strip glued together in an overall framework which I'm hoping to do again. Unfortunately I don't have sufficient supplies of the correct size strip so I need to pop out to the model shop this coming week. I have drawn up a rough paper grid (which needs a little tweaking) to act as a template:

 

[grahame]

I managed to nip out this morning and pick up a couple of packs of suitable styrene strip (although one would have done) and put together the window wall:

 

[grahame]

Glazing and panelling added. The window wall is only lying in place as further detailing work is required (such as the entrance doors) before fixing it, but progress has been quite acceptable.

 

[Ian Morgan]

 

 

 

[grahame]

Fielden House was on two levels; the upper level was at the station forecourt level with to the right Southwark Towers (not in view below but was the tallest building in the UK demolished to make way for the Shard). Public stairs (at the end of Fielden House) led down to the lower level of St Thomas Street and Guys Hospital. A bridge from the upper level was added that went over St Thomas Street to a McDonnalds.

 

 

 

[grahame]

I've found this superb pic, dated 1975, of the London Bridge station forecourt and Southwark towers. It's before the brown station entrance roof and 'modern' travel centre/ticket office was added so is a little early for me. There's plenty of Routemasters and DMS buses which have just about all gone now. The entrance/reception to Southwark Towers is the original version before the green curved glass wall with angled roof was added. Does anyone know when that was done?

 

 

 

 

[grahame]

I've added the ground floor entrance details although they won't be able to be easily seen as it will behind another building and there is only a very narrow access passageway between them. As a result it was probably a little rushed and rough and ready. However, I have also managed to straighten the front wall that seemed a little bowed in the pics (but not so obvious in real life):

 

 

Probably the next building to tackle is Telephone House in London Bridge Street (to the left from the front and right from the higher level roadway). Apparently this was a telephone exchange and later became a hotel and various bars/coffee cafes. A very recent bar that opened last year in the building is a Fullers pub called The Telephone Exchange but my model will try and represent it as it was in the 1980s so I need to do a little research. 

 

Like Fielden House, Telephone House is on two levels with a sloping upper level making it a tricky build. It's also a long thin building so will be quite a major build but it will effectively complete a block.

 

 

 

 

 

[grahame]

Here's a good pic of Telephone House (1968) of the long higher level frontage in London Bridge Street.

 

https://collage.cityoflondon.gov.uk/view-item?i=240438&WINID=1582979199307

 

It's the side that faces away from the front of the layout and won't be easily seen so I won't need to model all the fine nuances and details. What will be more pertinent is the other side that faces the front of the layout. 

[grahame]

The station forecourt area between Fielden House and Southwark Towers is an area I've been trying to unravel timewise and work out how to tackle it.

 

Apparently the footbridge over St Thomas Street (to connect to the new Guys Hospital buildings and a McDonnalds) was added around the mid 90s. No doubt the ST entrance was upgraded around the same time (from that shown in the 1975 pic of ST above). This pic (below) shows the bridge (mid right) and the new green curved glazed entrance/reception to Southwark Towers:

 

 

 

The 1980s style building on the left masks the view of the bottom of Fielden House. I'll be leaving that building out and pushing Fielden House (and ST) left to provide some compression to the length of the layout. There is an equivalent building I'll be leaving out of Tooley Street further behind the area and the row in London Bridge Street (including Telephone House) will similarly be reduced to help match things up front to back. Consequently the corner site above (St Tomas Street and Joiner Street - that goes under the forecourt and station) will be occupied by the Georgian railway offices terrace - an unfortunate but necessary subterfuge and compression.  

 

 

 

[Sabato]

I sat up in surprise when I saw you were building Fielden House. I worked there for about eighteen months in the early seventies. With what was then PO Telephones, I transferred from London Centre Area to ETE15, and the newly formed  International Operator Services. At that time we hadn't got a permanent office building, so we lead a nomadic life for about four years. We had two floors for the personnel groups, processing telephonist wages amongst other things. As far as I  can recall the rest of the building was occupied by the London Emergency Beds Centre. 

 

Telephone House were the offices of the City Area Telephone Manager, and I don't think it contained a public exchange; maybe the DDI PABX for City Area. Other than going to the staff restaurant, I had no need to visit the building.  As an aside, practically all the offices of Area Telephone Managers across the country were called Telephone House

[37403]

This is all superb modelling

Are all the windows made from styrene strip for the frames, transoms and mullions?

Do you have a particular technique for forming right angles with card? My buildings never look right at corners where there is a joint of two faces

[grahame]

10 hours ago, 37403 said:

 

Are all the windows made from styrene strip for the frames, transoms and mullions?

Do you have a particular technique for forming right angles with card? My buildings never look right at corners where there is a joint of two faces

 

Windows have been made from a variety of methods (such as cut self adhesive labels, styrene strip and painted on clear plastic using paint pens) although many use a product called Scene-Setters glazing grids. You'll need to look back through the thread for details and pics of its use.

 

Most wall corners aren't formed by simple joints but the external walls are laid on a pre-constructed internal carcass. Again the technique is expanded and detailed earlier in the thread. Where a simple butt joint is required without any supporting internal carcass they have been joined with super-glue and kept at right angles with right angled triangular fillets of thick card added behind to strengthen and maintain the joint angle.

 

HTH

 

 

 

[grahame]

Finding pics of the back of Telephone House (and from 40 years ago) is rather difficult. Below is how it currently looks from Google Maps/satellite 3D.

 

 

It's pretty plain and nondescript but it's doubtful if there was any other detailing from years ago since removed, so this side should be fairly straightforward to make. The mansard roof will be trickier but should add interest to the rather plain façade, as well as the bricked up windows. I guess all the vent pipes/flue ducting, many that rise on the left end extension, are pretty new additions for the cafes/bar/hotel kitchens that have been added in recent years.

 

The other side has all the architectural interest but this will be facing away from the front viewing position of the layout so won't need to be modelled in fine detail. The main wall finish looks quite smooth (rendered and painted?) which will also help make it easy to replicate - no need for embossed brickwork.

 

I need to go out and get some more sheets of mount-board and to place the other buildings (already made) in position to ascertain the overall length and draw up a rough plan. I'm happy for it to be reduced scale-wise in length to aid with the necessary compression, but overall it's going to be quite a lump of a building - not the sort of thing you see on many layouts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by grahame

[cornish trains jez]

1 hour ago, grahame said:

Finding pics of the back of Telephone House (and from 40 years ago) is rather difficult. Below is how it currently looks from Google Maps/satellite 3D.

 

 

It's pretty plain and nondescript but it's doubtful if there was any other detailing from years ago since removed, so this side should be fairly straightforward to make. The mansard roof will be trickier but should add interest to the rather plain façade, as well as the bricked up windows. I guess all the vent pipes/flue ducting, many that rise on the left end extension, are pretty new additions for the cafes/bar/hotel kitchens that have been added in recent years.

 

The other side has all the architectural interest but this will be facing away from the front viewing position of the layout so won't need to be modelled in fine detail. The main wall finish looks quite smooth (rendered and painted?) which will also help make it easy to replicate - no need for embossed brickwork.

 

I need to go out and get some more sheets of mount-board and to place the other buildings (already made) in position to ascertain the overall length and draw up a rough plan. I'm happy for it to be reduced scale-wise in length to aid with the necessary compression, but overall it's going to be quite a lump of a building - not the sort of thing you see on many layouts.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi Grahame,

 

I've been enjoying following your progress on the buildings and looking forward to seeing the layout develop and the stock. Have you tried looking at the Britain From Above website?  You'll need to register (it's free) to zoom in, but there might be some useful views, albeit most date 1900's to mid 1950's but should be good enough if there is anything useful to look at.

 

Best regards,

 

Jeremy

 

[grahame]

22 minutes ago, cornish trains jez said:

 

I've been enjoying following your progress on the buildings and looking forward to seeing the layout develop and the stock. Have you tried looking at the Britain From Above website?  You'll need to register (it's free) to zoom in, but there might be some useful views, albeit most date 1900's to mid 1950's but should be good enough if there is anything useful to look at.

 

 

I've used 'Britain from Above' previously and, despite the pics being b&w, quite panoramic and dated, have found some very helpful. However, I've just cottoned on to the fact there is another website called 'Britain from the air' (University of Cambridge) and have found this pic on it which is very useful. It's a cropped photo I took of my laptop screen (couldn't seem to download a copy) but appears the right period:

 

 

The back of Telephone House is quite a bit different from now (the Google image). The roof is a peaked/pitched (rather than mansard) with interesting additions and there's a deep recess towards the right end.

 

 

 

 

[grahame]

For those who don't (didn't) know the area, this may help:

 

 

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by grahame
update

[cornish trains jez]

27 minutes ago, grahame said:

 

I've used 'Britain from Above' previously and, despite the pics being b&w, quite panoramic and dated, have found some very helpful. However, I've just cottoned on to the fact there is another website called 'Britain from the air' (University of Cambridge) and have found this pic on it which is very useful. It's a cropped photo I took of my laptop screen (couldn't seem to download a copy) but appears the right period:

 

 

The back of Telephone House is quite a bit different from now (the Google image). The roof is a peaked/pitched (rather than mansard) with interesting additions and there's a deep recess towards the right end.

 

 

 

 

 

That's a great find Grahame. It's amazing how these buildings change over the years.

 

Best regards,

 

Jeremy

 

 

[K14]

15 hours ago, grahame said:

Finding pics of the back of Telephone House (and from 40 years ago) is rather difficult. Below is how it currently looks from Google Maps/satellite 3D.

<snip>

The main wall finish looks quite smooth (rendered and painted?) which will also help make it easy to replicate - no need for embossed brickwork.

 

Here's a view from St Thomas Street looking up:—

 

 

Clearly brickwork, but not the usual London Yellow. It doesn't seem to be glazed white tile either. The colour difference is clear where the recess was infilled.

 

Pete S.

[grahame]

It looks quite a creamy colour.