Jump to content

grahame

Scratch-built card and styrene structures (based on real buildings)

Recommended Posts

Can be a bit windy at that height

  • Funny 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've added a little bit of brick infill walling with unglazed window frames. I thought I'd just add a complete panel so as not to need to represent the inner block leaf/wall, but of course, I need to sort something out for the smaller partially complete angled section. I certainly don't intend adding any more brick/blockwork (perhaps some roofing for the pitched section) but I probably need some N/2mm scale Youngman boards and builders trestles for the brickie as well as piles of bricks, etc.

 

DSC_9794red.jpg.2b61b0cc83a02fa08f554f3c135c27b0.jpg

 

It's very tricky to take photos of small models in bright sunlight . . . heavy dark shadows and washed out colour . . . I might have another go when the sun has moved around a little.

 

  • Like 12
  • Craftsmanship/clever 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A couple of snaps out of direct sunlight, in shade and with a little artificial illumination . . . . 

 

DSC_9796red.jpg.985f0560aab2b971676d5e2a002059a0.jpg

 

DSC_9797red.jpg.e8823a56acf3dfa6ffea4a86468e3e3e.jpg

  • Like 7
  • Craftsmanship/clever 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, grahame said:

A couple of snaps out of direct sunlight, in shade and with a little artificial illumination . . . . 

 

DSC_9796red.jpg.985f0560aab2b971676d5e2a002059a0.jpg

 

DSC_9797red.jpg.e8823a56acf3dfa6ffea4a86468e3e3e.jpg

 

Nice

Very early in the construction once all the main steel was up the floors and stairs would go in for access.

Around the perimeter, even in this era, safety rails/boarding would go up once each floor level was done.

The brickwork to the door would be built up either side before starting to go across the head of the frame.

Hope this helps.

  • Informative/Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, KNP said:

 

Nice

Very early in the construction once all the main steel was up the floors and stairs would go in for access.

Around the perimeter, even in this era, safety rails/boarding would go up once each floor level was done.

The brickwork to the door would be built up either side before starting to go across the head of the frame.

Hope this helps.

 

Thanks.

 

I have already made and installed one set of concrete stairs to the first floor (a little difficult to see in the pics) and was planning on another (but not yet made) for the other end of the building. Many of the site pics I've looked at show very little in the way of safety rails, especially the 60s ones I posted up links to but probably because floors aren't installed in all of them and some of the ladders to access the frame look very scary. I've yet to finish the brickwork around the door (as mentioned) as I need to also consider making and adding the second leaf of blocks which will show behind the unfinished brickwork at the top. But I'm hoping to get it done.

 

1577906301_Sites1.jpg.3287363fdac3bfc4ddebb4456f2e0802.jpg

 

 

 

  • Like 1
  • Friendly/supportive 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I started my working life with Taylor Woodrow in the 80s on sites like this one!

 

Floor alternatives back then would be:

  • Cast in situ reinforced concrete - this would require timber (or steel) shuttering/formwork and a forest of scaffold/acro-prop/truss formwork support underneath to take the live load of the pour and whilst the concrete went off.  If further floors above were also cast in situ then that forest of formwork would stay to transfer the floor above loading to the ground and additional formwork supports would be between these floors.  There would be loads of rebar in a cast in situ floor of this size.  This type, as I remember, was the least common on steel frame buildings
  • Pre cast/prestressed beams - sometimes known as Bison beams, were light weight flooring panels (usually, but not always, with tubular hollow cores) which span from steel to steel.  They would be delivered ready to fit and craned into place, so much less formwork and formwork supports.  Often a screed of concrete would be cast over the top using the panels as the formwork.  Design dependant, this may have called for additional support during the live load of the pour.  Filigree flooring is another type of this kind of precast flooring system and would make a pretty unique model.
  • Beam and block - these were usually upside down T shaped pre-cast concrete beams which span from steel to steel and were spaced one block apart.  The gaps were in-filled with blocks and again often a screed cast over the top.

 

You're right about access ladders - on my first week on my first site I was asked to check the reinforcement in a 4m tall column which was ready to pour.  The formwork was up around all four sides and a ladder was tied to the reinforcement sticking out of the top.  As all that was holding the rebar up were the steel ties to the ground beam it wobbled alarmingly.  I got about 1m up and came down again.  Got called to the Project Manager's office expecting a telling off but in fact when I explained why I'd refused to go any higher, the foreman got a clobbering and told in no uncertain terms to put some access scaffolding up!  That said, on every site I remember from the 80s, there would have been at least a waist height scaffold handrail (and usually a toe board as well) on first floor or above edges in your type of building.

 

Once the brickies were on site the whole area was taken over with pallets of bricks and blocks and big tubs of mortar, but also the scaffold would have been built up as the walls were, with brick/block pallets and mortar at each level to prevent them from stopping.  So for your building, that currently bricked in panel would have needed scaffold to get to the stage currently modelled and if the panel above was also to be brick or block then in most cases the scaffold would have been left in place to be built up again as the respective lifts of brick/blockwork were built up.

 

I don't often see half built buildings that match my early site memories, but this one will look great with some tweaks and more detail!

 

Hope that helps

 

Cheers

 

Chris

  • Like 1
  • Informative/Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, CDGfife said:

I started my working life with Taylor Woodrow in the 80s on sites like this one!

 

Floor alternatives back then would be:

  • Cast in situ reinforced concrete - this would require timber (or steel) shuttering/formwork and a forest of scaffold/acro-prop/truss formwork support underneath to take the live load of the pour and whilst the concrete went off.  If further floors above were also cast in situ then that forest of formwork would stay to transfer the floor above loading to the ground and additional formwork supports would be between these floors.  There would be loads of rebar in a cast in situ floor of this size.  This type, as I remember, was the least common on steel frame buildings
  • Pre cast/prestressed beams - sometimes known as Bison beams, were light weight flooring panels (usually, but not always, with tubular hollow cores) which span from steel to steel.  They would be delivered ready to fit and craned into place, so much less formwork and formwork supports.  Often a screed of concrete would be cast over the top using the panels as the formwork.  Design dependant, this may have called for additional support during the live load of the pour.  Filigree flooring is another type of this kind of precast flooring system and would make a pretty unique model.
  • Beam and block - these were usually upside down T shaped pre-cast concrete beams which span from steel to steel and were spaced one block apart.  The gaps were in-filled with blocks and again often a screed cast over the top.

 

You're right about access ladders - on my first week on my first site I was asked to check the reinforcement in a 4m tall column which was ready to pour.  The formwork was up around all four sides and a ladder was tied to the reinforcement sticking out of the top.  As all that was holding the rebar up were the steel ties to the ground beam it wobbled alarmingly.  I got about 1m up and came down again.  Got called to the Project Manager's office expecting a telling off but in fact when I explained why I'd refused to go any higher, the foreman got a clobbering and told in no uncertain terms to put some access scaffolding up!  That said, on every site I remember from the 80s, there would have been at least a waist height scaffold handrail (and usually a toe board as well) on first floor or above edges in your type of building.

 

Once the brickies were on site the whole area was taken over with pallets of bricks and blocks and big tubs of mortar, but also the scaffold would have been built up as the walls were, with brick/block pallets and mortar at each level to prevent them from stopping.  So for your building, that currently bricked in panel would have needed scaffold to get to the stage currently modelled and if the panel above was also to be brick or block then in most cases the scaffold would have been left in place to be built up again as the respective lifts of brick/blockwork were built up.

 

I don't often see half built buildings that match my early site memories, but this one will look great with some tweaks and more detail!

 

Hope that helps

 

Cheers

 

Chris

 

Thanks for the info.

 

I was planning for it to be representative of a half built building site, and yep, although you do see the occasional ones on layouts they tend to be fairly traditional building construction in brick and tile with scaffolding. Modelled steel frame building construction sites are a lot rarer, especially in N gauge. However, it's the period that it's supposed to represent that is a bit fluid - probably in the late 70s.

 

I wasn't planning on adding more upper stage flooring than already done. In fact beams for the 2nd floor supports are missing as I thought they would over-clutter and over-power the overall look (they're probably a little over scale) and I'd run out of styrene beams - the tiny builders will have to crane them in to position later when they've worked their way up to that height. I understand about pre-formed/stressed inverted T concrete beams with infill blocks but TBH with this being N/2mm scale I don't think trying to replicate it is practical - hence not bothering with any more upper level floors. And that will hopefully mean no need for upper story safety rails at this stage. 

 

For the brickie access scaffolding for the end wall infill I was planning on something like Youngman boards and builders trestles - assuming I can make it. We used to use them for making stillage in the 70s which was about a storey high, although later in the 80s we used cup-lock scaffolding which is relatively easy DIY erection. The hard work was unloading the lorry and lugging it all upstairs. I think cladding the whole model building in scaffolding would look messy, be impossibly fiddly to make in N/2mm, and be interminably fragile.

 

However, I certainly need to add more and appropriate details, and get it looking more like a working site although various build stages have been started (probably out of sequence but in effort to make it an overall interesting and hopefully realistic model).

 

 

  • Like 2
  • Friendly/supportive 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In case you do decide to do any scaffolding, the vertical poles at that time were 25feet. Simon

  • Thanks 1
  • Informative/Useful 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Grahame,

 

How about scaffolding as ground clutter and/or van/lorry loads ready to be unloaded and assembled?

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

  • Like 1
  • Friendly/supportive 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am not sure when they started 'palletising' bricks (binding with steel straps, with bricks stacked to leave holes for use with a forklift) but I am sure somebody here will know. If it is OK for your time period, I have some on Shapeways:

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/75M3FP72Y/2mm-ft-palletised-bricks-36-pallets

 

Originally it was 36 separate stacks (pallets), but Shapeways pricing changes pushed the price to nearly £90! I have just remade the model, linking the stacks with sprues to make a single object and a much more 'palletable' price.

 

brickstack.jpg.a9d73404291ea08e096216cf602fc8b8.jpg

 

  • Like 1
  • Informative/Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks. I was only looking on Shapeways yesterday for N/2mm pallets of bricks. I only found pallets of cinder blocks that looked good . . .

 

I hope someone can confirm their use/suitability for the late 70s and if so I'll have to order both. . . . . 

 

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 31/05/2020 at 16:44, warb said:

Jim

The building is OO and is approx 30''x 34''x 18'' in size. please find link below and go to page 4 for the start of the google building

regards

warb

 

https://irishrailwaymodeller.com/topic/6775-barrow-street/?do=findComment&comment=134714

 

That's an amazing layout! I don't want to hijack Grahame's topic, but anyone who likes urban modelling who hasn't clicked on Warb's link should do so right now.

 

Jim

  • Agree 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 01/06/2020 at 13:57, grahame said:

 

Thanks.

 

I have already made and installed one set of concrete stairs to the first floor (a little difficult to see in the pics) and was planning on another (but not yet made) for the other end of the building. Many of the site pics I've looked at show very little in the way of safety rails, especially the 60s ones I posted up links to but probably because floors aren't installed in all of them and some of the ladders to access the frame look very scary. I've yet to finish the brickwork around the door (as mentioned) as I need to also consider making and adding the second leaf of blocks which will show behind the unfinished brickwork at the top. But I'm hoping to get it done.

 

1577906301_Sites1.jpg.3287363fdac3bfc4ddebb4456f2e0802.jpg

 

 

 

 

It's interesting that the pictures you've posted show fairly complete frames with little, if any, other structure in place. Most buildings of this sort of size nowadays seem to be built by erecting the lift shaft / stairwell to the full height of the building and then sort of building out from there.

 

Jim

  • Friendly/supportive 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Jim Martin said:

 

 Most buildings of this sort of size nowadays seem to be built by erecting the lift shaft / stairwell to the full height of the building and then sort of building out from there.

 

 

Yep, there's certainly a modern 21stC trend for building modular high-rise blocks with a thin central concrete segmented core;

 

1544513987_croydon-towers-3.jpg.b85d6da871ecc44f93997376a8bba789.jpg

 

and then fleshing out the rest of it with further modules craned in to place:

 

crodon2.png.6f24b64deea8a5f34ec1d6ee22e5e159.png

 

Apparently this tower in Croydon (near East Croydon station) is the tallest modular building in the world. My steel framed building, by comparison, is only four storeys high (I don't know whether it had lifts as it's now demolished) and was probably built in the mid/late 70s.

 

 

 

  • Informative/Useful 1
  • Friendly/supportive 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it is probably for safety; stairs, lifts and services in a fire-resistant central core.

 

  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The recent sunny weather has rather put the kibosh on modelling - far too hot and sweaty for me. And today, although overcast, it is very warm and humid, and still with no rain. Consequently just a little modelling effort today in finishing the brickwork section, well, in so much as far as I'm going to do. Next to consider is the small amount of scaffolding along the side wall and angled section. And to make and install the second cast concrete stairway.

 

Anyway this photo is massively cruel and close-up - hence the £1 coin for scale. And it reveals some tidying up I need to do . . . . 

 

DSC_9805red.jpg.bb978ea50d2a12498270ea623a0872bf.jpg

 

I've also ordered a few 3D printed bits from Shapeways to help detail the site. Has the postage gone up again - it was over £9 with the total coming to £47 just for three small items?

 

 

 

  • Like 8
  • Craftsmanship/clever 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Nice work as always Grahame. Shapeways postage was about £8 last time I ordered, so I tend to get a large order together when I do to try and justify to myself paying the high postage rate.

 

Best regards and stay safe,

 

Jeremy

 

  • Informative/Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Had a quick squizz at resin printer prices there -  220 pounds for an Elegoo Mars resin printer, and 189 for  a (smaller capacity) Photon zero, buying  small items from Shapeways seem to be fast becoming very uneconomical in comparison..

  • Like 1
  • Informative/Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

cracking work as always Graeme, its always interesting to see what your next detailing step will be. These little bits of work add so much to the overall picture.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, monkeysarefun said:

Had a quick squizz at resin printer prices there -  220 pounds for an Elegoo Mars resin printer, and 189 for  a (smaller capacity) Photon zero, buying  small items from Shapeways seem to be fast becoming very uneconomical in comparison..

 

I am getting very tempted to get one, but I am put off by the mess, health hazards and disposal of waste, plus I expect it will be an even bigger time-sink than my other model making pursuits.

 

  • Agree 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, Ian Morgan said:

 

I am getting very tempted to get one, but I am put off by the mess, health hazards and disposal of waste, plus I expect it will be an even bigger time-sink than my other model making pursuits.

 

 

Yes, I'd be tempted as well but it introduces another electronic time sponge in learning the designing system, drawing up the items, printing them and cleaning up after. And I understand the printing material can be quite expensive. But perhaps some further consideration . . .

 

 

  • Friendly/supportive 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The re-bar mesh panels (baustahlmatten) that I ordered from DM toys have arrived. And I'm rather impressed with it. It wasn't particularly cheap but you do get 10 large and 10 small panels in a pack. Any extras/leftovers will make a great wagon load.

 

They are laser-cut from card and are a lot finer than I thought they'd be - bearing in mind they are N/2mm (well, N scale 1:160). And they probably don't need any painting; maybe just a little rust weathering. Here's a couple just placed on the site for a quick snap below. I did also order a couple of other items at the same time; a 3D printed cement mixer and some laser-cut gratings with rivets (gitterroste mit nieten).

 

DSC00119red.jpg.c6c8b0a3af13516e3da1553c044903f3.jpg

 

  • Like 13

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/06/2020 at 15:43, grahame said:

The re-bar mesh panels (baustahlmatten) that I ordered from DM toys have arrived. And I'm rather impressed with it. It wasn't particularly cheap but you do get 10 large and 10 small panels in a pack. Any extras/leftovers will make a great wagon load.

 

They are laser-cut from card and are a lot finer than I thought they'd be - bearing in mind they are N/2mm (well, N scale 1:160). And they probably don't need any painting; maybe just a little rust weathering. Here's a couple just placed on the site for a quick snap below. I did also order a couple of other items at the same time; a 3D printed cement mixer and some laser-cut gratings with rivets (gitterroste mit nieten).

 

DSC00119red.jpg.c6c8b0a3af13516e3da1553c044903f3.jpg

 

 

I wondered if something like Scale-Link etched mesh (they're called something else now, I think) would suit for rebar panels, but those look very good!

 

Jim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, Jim Martin said:

 

I wondered if something like Scale-Link etched mesh (they're called something else now, I think) would suit for rebar panels, but those look very good!

 

 

They're called something like Fretcetera. I was recently looking at the etched ladders and scaffolding they do. Unfortunately not quite what I was after.

 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.