Model Railway Speed World Record

[How about a Dictator Loco Class?]

As with Land Speed Records I reckon you should have different categories. For example you could have separate classes for clockwork, electric and live steam propulsion, with sub-classes, for electrics, of self-contained power, two rail pick-up and overhead pick-up. Steam could be divided into reciprocating, turbine and, perhaps, jet reaction drive. A class for internal combustion could utilise some of the staggeringly powerful little two-stroke model aero engines now that the RC aircraft world has gone extensively electric. Now there's a thought. IC powered tethered cars are exciting little beasties. Something similar running on a suitably banked circle of track might be fun .

 

If you go so far that it doesn't at least vaguely resemble something recognisable as a model train, though, I think it misses the point a bit, just as I don't recognise anything post Donald Campbell as a proper World Land Speed Record, because the final incarnation of Bluebird was the last WLSR holder that was, recognisably if somewhat remotely, a motor car

International combustion does sound exciting!

Such potential!

And your idea of banked corners!!!

That makes me think back yo the wall of death suggestion. Maybe a huge banked circuit could be the answer to the staggering amount of track needed for models exceeding an actual 100mph speed!

 

As regards land speed, Golden rod might not be British but it uses 4 actual road car engines, gear boxes, is wheel driven and still holds the international combustion, wheel driven record!

We need that back. But well done to the Yanks!!

[How about a Dictator Loco Class?]

For shear lunacy, the 148mph Budd NYC.....

 

Budd.jpg

 

Yes they put two jet engines on top of a railcar!

 

Stephen

Ha yes Steven, great minds think alike! (well you are probably bighter) your two body selections are the exact two I was most interested in using!

The latter looks like Darth Vaider's welding mask at the front!!! What a beast.The guy's wife designed the front actually!

I thought a US body shell is the only way to get the US to mention a British model record in their mags. But it is a great prototype.

[How about a Dictator Loco Class?]

DRS Group 7 or Group 20 motors would be a must!

What are they sorry?

Not heard of them?

Size? Rough cost? Output? Normal application?

Thanks!!

[How about a Dictator Loco Class?]

Progress update;

New speed record achieved!!

 

My first prototype had previously broke the 500mph mark last week.

Last night (12:40 so this morning technically) with many minor tweaks and adjustments ontop of a voltage boost, its highest speed was raised to;

3.764m/s X 76 = 286m/s

640.02mph new record!!!

So the sound barrier is getting closer!

Next week hopefully!

 

My 3rd prototype was built on Thursday evening and is driven by a terrifying, Lithium Polymer powered, stupidly powerful quadcopter/drone motor. It is fan powered and creates a savage amount of power from it's little high rpm fan.

I see great potential for this model in the thrust driven category. It has so much torque it derails and flipps the train instantly. And threw off it's first propeller within the split second it was first given power. Even though it was jammed tightly onto the shaft and soldered!!! Hitting a nearby blind very hard, leaving a semicircular cut in it and then seemingly vaporising never to be found again?!?!

A new fan was made and it's output was tremendously more than I'd hoped for!

So next is a ducted twin motor and prop counter rotating fan. Hopefully the motors will irradiate each others terrible torque side effects!

Tomorrow I'll spend the day doing cad work, designing a versatile chassis, mechanical test mule that allows many different motors, gearings, types of propulsion etc to be developed and analysed.

Thanks for all your comments!!

I've read them all carefully and meditatively. (-:

Rob

[Doorslammer]

What are they sorry?

Not heard of them?

Size? Rough cost? Output? Normal application?

Thanks!!

These

 

[How about a Dictator Loco Class?]

Does anyone know the rules on propellers maximum angles please?!?

I've made mine at 45degrees but I'm wondering if a steeper angle is possible for more thrust?

Where's Bertiedog when I need him (-:

 

This little beast (motor and fan in the attached picture) will fit in an N gauge model even!

I think I've seen a British fan blown prototype train? May have been a hover train though, so an accurate model may have to be of the German one.

 

I'm looking into a petrol afterburner to go in the back of my counter rotating ducted fan. My dad has a petrol blow torch that can be cannibalised, lightened and improved!! Hehehe!!!

 

My catapulted mineral wagon has hit 1020mph btw!!

[KalKat]

I think you may want to look at some of the aeromodelling sites. I remember when I was involved with RTP models, we used some pretty small props.

 

If you really want thrust, I would be looking at ducted fan setups. I made one for a wing in ground/ekraplan type thing using the fan from a hairdrier and a homebuilt nacelle.

 

Looking at your prop , it looks to be a very ineffecient shape .. their should be more pitch at the centre. Unfortunately rules for turbines are horrendous!

 

Emma

[RJS1977]

For shear lunacy, the 148mph Budd NYC.....

 

Budd.jpg

 

Yes they put two jet engines on top of a railcar!

 

Stephen

 

I've seen photos of an equivalent Russian jet railcar too.

[RJS1977]

 

 

When City of Truro came down Wellington Bank in 1904 the ton had already been exceeded by the motor car, but there were certainly several US claimants to 3 figures prior to 1900, which is certainly ahead of the car, although how credible any of them are might be open to debate.

 

 

 

Wikipedia gives the "Stanley Rocket" of 1906 as the first car to beat the rail record:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_speed_record#1898.E2.80.931965_.28wheel-driven.29

[How about a Dictator Loco Class?]

I think you may want to look at some of the aeromodelling sites. I remember when I was involved with RTP models, we used some pretty small props.

 

If you really want thrust, I would be looking at ducted fan setups. I made one for a wing in ground/ekraplan type thing using the fan from a hairdrier and a homebuilt nacelle.

 

Looking at your prop , it looks to be a very ineffecient shape .. their should be more pitch at the centre. Unfortunately rules for turbines are horrendous!

 

Emma

What are RTP models please?

And what is a wing in ground/ekraplan?

Got any pictures of these projects?

 

I will look up aero modeling sites thank you!

And the prop is rubish in the centre now you mention it. It was made in about 7 minutes.

To replace a better bigger one that got lost.

I'll buy or design & 3d print some more efficient ones.

Thank you.

Rob

[How about a Dictator Loco Class?]

Been busy weathering stock for our next show (ie the white spotted Western 52 hehe!) etc

so not got as far on as I wanted with prototype design this last week.

 

I found that scalextric cars have enough downforce/magnetism to go upside down!!!

Even with only one magnet fitted.

But on nickel silver track I won't be able to use magnetic downforce.

 

As well as data on maximum fan angles, does anyone have data on 4 wheeled vs bogied rolling stock for high speed stability??

Think my hst book touches on this maybe. Need to know for my next prototype(my 4th and biggest, best so far!!!)

Thanks!

Rob

[PatB]

Think of prop pitch as being akin to gear ratios. A small pitch will allow a relatively high revving motor to move a heavy, draggy vehicle but the top speed will be limited by how fast the motor can turn. A big pitch will allow a higher top speed for a given rpm but will be horribly inefficient at low speeds, to the extent that it won't develop enough thrust to reach the high speeds where it might start to work. That's why most prop driven aircraft with any claim to sophisticated performance have variable pitch props which, I suspect, would be very hard to achieve on a model.

 

One solution might be a catapult boost to get the vehicle moving fast enough for a large pitch prop to start to work.

[How about a Dictator Loco Class?]

Wow that's very fascinating!

Yes a variable prop of that microscopic size doesn't sound easy to get hold of or make. But I'll look!

Thank you for the great description/explanation!

Rob

Edited September 27, 2016 by How about a Dictator Loco Class?

[RJS1977]

Maybe, like Bloodhound, you need one motor to get started and another to get the higher speeds.

[KalKat]

RE #80.......

 

Wing in ground and ekraplan craft use the 'ground effect' . This is where the air under the craft is unable to escape and thus generates lift. Google 'WiG/ Wing in Ground and 'the caspian sea monster'

 

Unfortunately no piccies of those old projects, film (in those good old bad old days)  was expensive. RTP is 'round the pole' ie electric aircraft where the tether to the pole is also the power supply wires.

 

 

Emma

[How about a Dictator Loco Class?]

RE #80.......

 

Wing in ground and ekraplan craft use the 'ground effect' . This is where the air under the craft is unable to escape and thus generates lift. Google 'WiG/ Wing in Ground and 'the caspian sea monster'

 

Unfortunately no piccies of those old projects, film (in those good old bad old days)  was expensive. RTP is 'round the pole' ie electric aircraft where the tether to the pole is also the power supply wires.

 

 

Emma

Oh yes!!!! I've seen that Caspian sea monster!!

Only just heard of it last year. What an awesome beast! It amazed me that such a huge speedy monster,vehicle exists. And RTP yep I remember them now. Thank you!

 

You'll notice the current Red Bull F1 car leans forward much more than any other car on the grid. The back is high off the ground. It's to increase the ground effect by creating a greater vacuum at the back underneath.

I'll put a low flat bottom in future trains but I wonder if sleepers will disrupt airflow?!

Apparently on real highspeed trains, strong side winds can be a greater problem than head winds for causing resistance! As a long train has such a greater surface area on the side than the front.

[How about a Dictator Loco Class?]

Maybe, like Bloodhound, you need one motor to get started and another to get the higher speeds.

It's certainly a concept I've toyed with a fair bit.

I'd dearly love a baby CVT, constantly variable transmission, that seamlessly blends btween infinite ratios.

But fortunately unlike combustion engines, electric motors give very similar torque and bhp figures through most of the rev range. From low to very very high rpm. Hense why many electric road cars don't bother with a gearbox. Yet if the manufacturer chooses they can go like stink!

Especially the German Formula Student electric racing car on YouTube with it's face melting acceleration record!

Thank you for your input RJS1977! You seem to know your stuff about land speed!! The Stanley Steamer was a beast! Great for steam buffs!

Rob

[KalKat]

For interest........

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AEO-Aircraft-10200KV-Brushless-Motor-30mm-6-Blade-Electric-Ducted-Fan-EDF-OM138-/252136719942?hash=item3ab4850646:g:6wcAAOxy86RSXB5B

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RC-Aircraft-Plane-Jet-55mm-3500kv-BL-Brushless-Motor-Duct-Fan-EDF-500g-thrust-/231972629827?hash=item3602a56d43:g:nhAAAOSwEK9T2hi~

 

..... you would need to incorporate a speed controller as these motors are brushless

 

 

 

Emma

[How about a Dictator Loco Class?]

For interest........

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AEO-Aircraft-10200KV-Brushless-Motor-30mm-6-Blade-Electric-Ducted-Fan-EDF-OM138-/252136719942?hash=item3ab4850646:g:6wcAAOxy86RSXB5B

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RC-Aircraft-Plane-Jet-55mm-3500kv-BL-Brushless-Motor-Duct-Fan-EDF-500g-thrust-/231972629827?hash=item3602a56d43:g:nhAAAOSwEK9T2hi~

 

..... you would need to incorporate a speed controller as these motors are brushless

 

 

 

Emma

I'll look on eBay, thank you! Need to research how a brushless motor works actually.

Please forgive my ignorance Emma but why do they need a speed controller please?

 

A friend I made at work this week (who wired/did the electronics on the preserved Vulcan Bomber!) will have a prototype speed model and and timing system ready for testing this weekend I've heard!!! It's motor arrives soon. High quality competition at last. Can't wait to see what he achieves!

Rob

[KalKat]

Those motors are sort of like stepper motors. They have 3 wires and aren't strictly speaking DC motors

 

 

Emma

[RJS1977]

I'll put a low flat bottom in future trains but I wonder if sleepers will disrupt airflow?!

 

 

Could you 'pave in' the track to counteract that?

[How about a Dictator Loco Class?]

Could you 'pave in' the track to counteract that?

 

That's a really interesting idea actually. Once I'm hitting speeds that require good aero packages I'll certainly do performance comparison tests with standard vs smooth paved inner track.

Thank you!

You should have a go at knocking some simple models together too! It's great fun, educational, rewarding and quite cheep. You have good ideas too. There are only a couple of us building/competing in this project at the moment.

Once we have something really worth seeing, then I'll get on the American forums and we'll get some real competition and enthusiasm then. That's why I've wanted a head start first. Brits can do this stuff well though.

[How about a Dictator Loco Class?]

Been testing my newly built jet engine today!

Fits within the dimensions of a 00 gauge coach.

The other day it was getting a pure blue flame from the afterburner but I couldn't get a picture as no free hands.

[Stevelewis]

When  I  was  a  Kid,  and  that's  a  long  time  ago!  We  used  to  attach Firework  Rockets  minus  the  stick  to   redundant  Tri-ang  4  wheel  chassis, and  then  obtaining  as  much   Tri-ang  straight  track as we  could  get  our  hands  on   would  launch  the  unsuspecting  chassis!

 

I have  no  idea what speed  was  achieved  except  it  seemed 'quite fast'  and  most  of  the  time  the  poor  old  chassis could  not  be  found again!

 

Also  worth  pointing  out  this  was  not  done  indoors.

 

I don't  recommend any one  should  try  this!

[How about a Dictator Loco Class?]

When  I  was  a  Kid,  and  that's  a  long  time  ago!  We  used  to  attach Firework  Rockets  minus  the  stick  to   redundant  Tri-ang  4  wheel  chassis, and  then  obtaining  as  much   Tri-ang  straight  track as we  could  get  our  hands  on   would  launch  the  unsuspecting  chassis!

 

I have  no  idea what speed  was  achieved  except  it  seemed 'quite fast'  and  most  of  the  time  the  poor  old  chassis could  not  be  found again!

 

Also  worth  pointing  out  this  was  not  done  indoors.

 

I don't  recommend any one  should  try  this!

Amazing!

Why are there not more people like you!

I was googling last week to see if anyone had videos of doing that