Eurostar scrapping class 373s

[Dava]

According to Rail News, Eurostar is scrapping the first series of class 373 trains, after 22 years use - at Kingsbury! What a comedown. Other European countries [OK, we voted not to be] build high speed rail, we scrap the trains.

 

http://www.railmagazine.com/news/fleet/2016/09/20/eurostar-prepares-to-scrap-186mph-class-373s

 

Is this a rational act, or could alternative uses be found for these long, fast, well-built but wide & power-hungry trains which have served so well? I recall when GNER had a few sets running KX-York.

 

Dava

[newcastle_central]

Seems a short life compared to many UK classes but I'm no expert on the life limiting factors of these locos. What I do know, as a regular Eurostar user, is the new trains are no match from a comfort and finish perspective. Far inferior in many ways although thankfully the toilets are fresher.

[Dunsignalling]

22 years is probably about the normal lifespan for this kind of train. The technology has moved on and, by comparison with the units replacing them, the 373's are indeed power hungry. I doubt Eurostar are the only high speed operators replacing units of that generation.

 

Unlike our more versatile HST fleet, which is capable of being cascaded onto shorter routes with relatively frequent stops, the 373s are only suited to the work they were designed for - 180+ mph traffic over long distances serving few intermediate destinations.

 

John

[Metr0Land]

As noted by others, there are very few routes they can be used on. They are of an age when they need a mid-life heavy overhaul if they are to continue. However, the new units have something like 900 seats versus 750ish seats on the ones being scrapped.

 

So... if you spend £xM on a major refurbish you spend the next 20 years with units which are far less productive than the new ones (assuming you can afford lease/purchase costs of 374's) so I'm pretty sure the business case for refurbish simply isn't there.

 

BTW the first one that was due to go for scrap tonight is postponed due to paperwork issues but no doubt will be resolved in due course.

[colin penfold]

or could alternative uses be found for these long, fast, well-built but wide & power-hungry trains which have served so well?

Dava

Norwich in 90 LOL.

[Zomboid]

I suspect we'll have to get used to trains having shorter lifespans. No doubt a factor with these is that they'll have a lot of complex and obsolete electronic systems on board, for which there is essentially no hope of getting replacements for (just about no amount of money will get a microchip manufacturer to reopen a line from 1993).

So the mid life refit is going to be extremely expensive and increasingly uneconomic.

[srihaggis]

For anyone mad enough...

 

http://www.opentraintimes.com/schedule/R00989/2016-09-21

 

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R00989/2016/09/21/advanced

Edited September 20, 2016 by srihaggis

[APOLLO]

I suspect we'll have to get used to trains having shorter lifespans. No doubt a factor with these is that they'll have a lot of complex and obsolete electronic systems on board, for which there is essentially no hope of getting replacements for (just about no amount of money will get a microchip manufacturer to reopen a line from 1993).

So the mid life refit is going to be extremely expensive and increasingly uneconomic.

 

Just like modern cars then !!! - A throw-away train !!!!

 

Brit15

[Kelly]

Iirc part of it is also how running under the Thames has affected them.

[russ p]

Ford transit engines strapped underneath them ....!

[jonathan452]

Is this a rational act, or could alternative uses be found for these long, fast, well-built but wide & power-hungry trains which have served so well? I recall when GNER had a few sets running KX-York.

 

Dava

Classic compatible trains for HS2. (i.e. they fit the UK Loading Gauge.)

 

Meanwhile 40 of the original TGV PSE train sets are still in service despite the Duplex revolution.

Edited September 20, 2016 by jonathan452

[DavidB-AU]

And the 0 series Shinkansen lasted 44 years in service.

 

Cheers

David

[Claude_Dreyfus]

Not without precedent though. The 300 series Shinkansen only had a working life of about 20 years.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_Series_Shinkansen

 

I suspect 20 years of hard slog more or less knackered them. Probably not unlike the Eurostar.

[cheesysmith]

Would it be possible to take the coaches and use them as hauled sets? Apart from the length of these trains, they have fitted on the SR region of BR for years, and you could always just run half a set modified for use with a 67 or such?

[Tim H]

22 years is about the same as the Deltics. And for much the same reason, complex machines built for a specific purpose and unsuitable for anything else, and technology had moved on.

[DavidB-AU]

Not without precedent though. The 300 series Shinkansen only had a working life of about 20 years.

The 100 series they replaced didn't even last that long. Some were scrapped after 15 years. As mentioned I think it's something to do with early 90s electronics.

 

Cheers

David

[pete_mcfarlane]

A quick google suggests that these units had been used by SNCF on internal services and hadn't been refurbished to the same standard as the core Eurostar fleet. Is this the case?

[jjb1970]

And the 0 series Shinkansen lasted 44 years in service.

 

Cheers

David

They stayed in production for a long time bus as with most Shinkansen sets the life of an individual train was quite short as a result of lightweight construction. JR had quite impressive Shinkansen recycling facilities as a result of their requirement to dispose of a lot of Shinkansen vehicles on an ongoing basis.

[Oakydoke]

A quick google suggests that these units had been used by SNCF on internal services and hadn't been refurbished to the same standard as the core Eurostar fleet. Is this the case?

The 3x Three Capitals sets that were used on domestic services by SNCF, were not part of the Eurostar fleet, except at the very beginning.

These were kept as part of the SNCF domestic fleet and unlike the other SNCF owned Three Capitals sets (which were operated by the old Eurostar company) not later transferred to the new Eurostar company in 2010.

These 3 domestic train sets were retired in 2014 and were scrapped in France. There are photos on the internet that show them in derelict condition in the scrap line, awaiting their ultimate fate.

[Gwiwer]

If you were made to travel at up to 300kmh several times a day and were poked through confined concrete tubes which are sometimes very long and you had to cope with thousands of people traipsing into and out of you then after 20-odd years you too might be tired.  The poor things are at the end of their economic life.  The electronics have been superseded and the third-rail 750V kit is redundant.  They seem modern by comparison with some of our domestic trains and one might with some justification suggest that they be compared with the HST fleet.  But remember the HST fleet is single-mode and into its third generation of traction equipment.  Had it relied on the original Valentas the fleet would have been sidelined or become intolerably unreliable many years ago.  

 

If you look for examples of other recent-era short-lived rolling stock then try the London Transport 1983 tube stock for starters.  Tube cars generally last 35 - 45 years but these had all gone (for scrap, apart from a tiny handful) within 10 - 15.

[DavidB-AU]

One power car is already in NRM. There was talk some years ago that one each would eventually go to Cité du Train in Mulhouse and Train World in Brussels. Has there been any more talk of this?

 

Cheers

David

[YesTor]

One power car is already in NRM. There was talk some years ago that one each would eventually go to Cité du Train in Mulhouse and Train World in Brussels. Has there been any more talk of this?

 

One power car to the NRM - indeed, you would think that they would learn - it will be a repeat of the prototype HST whereby in 20 or 30 years time they will wish they'd have preserved a pair... 

[298]

One power car is already in NRM. There was talk some years ago that one each would eventually go to Cité du Train in Mulhouse and Train World in Brussels. Has there been any more talk of this?CheersDavid

  

One power car to the NRM - indeed, you would think that they would learn - it will be a repeat of the prototype HST whereby in 20 or 30 years time they will wish they'd have preserved a pair... 

But then you'd also need a pair of R1 coaches in order to run them, and would end up with a full size Hornby Train Pack.

 

Now, I wonder how much that new garden shed is going to cost me, if EMR will sell me the shell of a power car...?

[Oakydoke]

http://www.photos-ferroviaires.fr/galleries/en_ballade/culoz_25082015/eurostar_3225_1_culoz_25082015.jpg

 

https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT8q6eyn7QdCLXyMLU6JslebzYf3-0SSRNtlCBu0rS1buTO3phH

 

http://www.cheminots.net/forum/uploads/monthly_2015_11/56484e3c199be_DIVERSSEPTEMBRE2015025.JPG.bce88ba2bcf6970f8ba7eb787718162f.JPG

 

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/469/18424028284_da9709ccf8_c.jpg

 

http://i.skyrock.net/2581/5442581/pics/3270018876_1_24_MJs6QEQQ.jpg

 

http://trierer-bahnbilder.de/assets/images/db_images/db_IMGP73431.jpg

 

http://i19.servimg.com/u/f19/16/95/09/09/img_1614.jpg

 

http://i19.servimg.com/u/f19/16/95/09/09/img_1612.jpg

Edited September 21, 2016 by Oakydoke

[olivegreen]

Classic compatible trains for HS2. (i.e. they fit the UK Loading Gauge.)

 

Meanwhile 40 of the original TGV PSE train sets are still in service despite the Duplex revolution.

 

With respect to the OP, the scrapping is not news - although the reminder is useful!

 

I think discussion on potential for re-use on HS2 has been held here before and those with far better knowledge of the subject then me have rejected it as a non-starter…probably on the grounds of age/cost etc.

 

For the TGV SE original sets - and using Wikipedia data - even if 40 are still in use, it is perhaps worth noting that a considerably greater number has been scrapped.