Hornby announce the ex SECR / SR / BR(s) Wainwright H Class 0-4-4 tank as part of their 2017 range

[Dunsignalling]

I wasn't in any sense suggesting that but let's face it,the two four coupled 044 SR tanks we do have are in strictly haulage capacity not up to the mark are they,to be quite candid ? Maybe the Hornby R&D team will find the Holy Grail with the H. Who knows ?

0-4-4 tanks are notoriously tricky beasts to obtain good haulage from in the smaller scales and I remain to be convinced that dragging a 13-car Bournemouth Belle set between Waterloo and Clapham Yard with a 4mm scale M7 is possible using current r-t-r technology.

 

An articulated chassis, as described by Mr Coulton in the February 1967 Railway Modeller would, I suspect, provide a good starting point, offering better balance than a rigid chassis + bogie can.  Then you need everything at the front as heavy as possible whilst making the back as light as will stay on the track.

 

It's not confined to models, I remember overhearing one driver, given an M7 as a short-notice replacement for a Black Motor on a fairly well-loaded pick-up goods saying that he wished he'd had time to turn it as "they pull better running backwards". The language used was actually a bit more colourful than that.........

 

John

Edited September 25, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[Ventnor]

I misunderstood your post, the measurements I took were across the widest point of the crown and base, not the shaft/flue (or whatever the main part is called). 

 

Should I take it you mean that part should taper inwards towards the top?

 

John

The chimney should taper from bottom to top (inwards towards the top as you say), definitely no parallel section!! They are a very distinctive shape and generally (and I stress generally), Wainwright chimneys have some kind of taper, look at a C Class and D Class. Locos rebuilt/reboilered with a Wainwright boiler tended to have them as well such as the ex-Stirling R1s (0-4-4T and 0-6-0T) and O1s.  It is a most distinctive feature on the Bluebell loco!! Hopefully it will be corrected.

[GreenGiraffe22]

Could someone please tell me why traction tyres are disliked? If they improve a locos performance what is the issue? They're hardly noticeable? To my eyes anyway...

[Ian Hargrave]

Could someone please tell me why traction tyres are disliked? If they improve a locos performance what is the issue? They're hardly noticeable? To my eyes anyway...

 

In general,I'm in agreement with you.But it must also be stressed that they can cause problems,the early Hornby T9's being one example of this with erratic performance and frequent derailing. Later ones seem ok....for now.They also lead to more frquent track cleaning and can come adrift But yes,the strength of anti feeling does puzzle me a bit,I have to say.

[No Decorum]

In general,I'm in agreement with you.But it must also be stressed that they can cause problems,the early Hornby T9's being one example of this with erratic performance and frequent derailing. Later ones seem ok....for now.They also lead to more frquent track cleaning and can come adrift But yes,the strength of anti feeling does puzzle me a bit,I have to say.

I have to admit that my loathing of them is beyond rational. However, in an attempt to appear rational, and adding to what Ian says, it seems a poor idea to insulate some of the wheels which are used for pick up, especially on a small locomotive when there aren’t many wheels to start with. If a locomotive has a sprung or loose wheelset, the grip of the tyres can cause it to pitch. Some are better than others but they do deteriorate over time and you can be left with slipping wheels or, in the case of disintegration, wheels with grooves in them, which jam on the track.

 

For my part, the present tendency to design smaller locomotives without them is a most welcome development.

[Ian J.]

Traction tyres, as said, often pick up and leave muck on the rails. They can also become loose, needing replacing. They also pretty much prevent any form of wheel spin, which can actually be desirable if trying to represent real world running. They also interfere with electrical pickup.

 

If a model is designed well it should be able to haul a prototypical load without problems without the need for traction tyre assistance. It does seem, however, that no manufacturer has to date managed to design a 4-4-0 or 0-4-4 locomotive with the weight where it needs to be, over the driving wheels.

[Ian Hargrave]

Given that this current Hornby R&D team now consistently come up with the goods,let's see now how they design the H.....though having said that,the Adams Radial does possess certain "eccentricities" which perhaps need a fine tune,good performer though it undoubtedly is.

[The Bigbee Line]

You cannot beat a lively debate. The thing I would like manufacturers to do is tone down the black. Making it a faded grey to replicate locos in service. Lettering can likewise be faded. A good start for weathering. Not like B*****n and lightly spray with a Matt earth colour and call it weathered.

[Purley Oaks]

Good for Hornby; very much like that the H and Bachmann's E2 are a match for the Birdcage coaches (whenever they appear...)

Mal

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...It does seem, however, that no manufacturer has to date managed to design a 4-4-0 or 0-4-4 locomotive with the weight where it needs to be, over the driving wheels.

 Both Bachmann and Hornby have done the trick with their recent 4-4-0s. If Hornby will use the layout on their D16/3 which has the motor between driven wheelbase and bogie, and put the decoder socket in the bunker, then there is ample volume for weight over the driven wheels. Also, use of tungsten has been mentioned in the context of 'difficult' mechanism layouts, and selective use of such a dense material would certainly help with a small 0-4-4T or 4-4-0. They need good design choices in short.

[Dunsignalling]

In general,I'm in agreement with you.But it must also be stressed that they can cause problems,the early Hornby T9's being one example of this with erratic performance and frequent derailing. Later ones seem ok....for now.They also lead to more frquent track cleaning and can come adrift But yes,the strength of anti feeling does puzzle me a bit,I have to say.

If you had ever been half of a 2-man cleaning team on a 30' x 12' four track main line layout after it had been given over to a full complement of Lima locos for a "Diesel Gala" weekend, the words "detest" and "never again" would spring very readily to your lips.   

[Andy Hayter]

It could have been worse.  It could have been kitted out with OHLE.

[JSpencer]

One thing Hornby should note of course is that people will be expecting the H to pull a rake of 3 Bachmann Birdcages under *any* circumstances and at least 6 in most.

[Ian Hargrave]

Both Bachmann and Hornby have done the trick with their recent 4-4-0s. If Hornby will use the layout on their D16/3 which has the motor between driven wheelbase and bogie, and put the decoder socket in the bunker, then there is ample volume for weight over the driven wheels. Also, use of tungsten has been mentioned in the context of 'difficult' mechanism layouts, and selective use of such a dense material would certainly help with a small 0-4-4T or 4-4-0. They need good design choices in short.

The key code being 0-4-4 T rather than 4-4-0,I think.

[Ian Hargrave]

One thing Hornby should note of course is that people will be expecting the H to pull a rake of 3 Bachmann Birdcages under *any* circumstances and at least 6 in most.

Well ...you've said it.Considering the current stated of the art,that seems quite a challenge.A tough nut to crack ?

[Dunsignalling]

One thing Hornby should note of course is that people will be expecting the H to pull a rake of 3 Bachmann Birdcages under *any* circumstances and at least 6 in most.

Total cost of train, well north of £400 and there are plenty of people whose layouts will only just accommodate a 3 coach train. 

 

Doesn't anybody model branch lines any more?

Edited September 26, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[JSpencer]

Total cost of train, well north of £400 and there are plenty of people whose layouts will only just accommodate a 3 coach train. 

 

Doesn't anybody model branch lines any more?

 

Me, my small expo DCC demostrator, but that will only take 2 coaches and a loco. What is more it is based in Kent!

 

Birdcages + H will be reserved for the big mainline layout that now remains at home.

[Edwardian]

One thing Hornby should note of course is that people will be expecting the H to pull a rake of 3 Bachmann Birdcages under *any* circumstances and at least 6 in most.

 

That certainly should be the case.

[Derails Models]

We're now taking interest for these online and instore, had a couple of orders from regulars already so looks like a good choice. It say's three liveries, will be interesting to see whether they do SECR or Southern as the third, as from previous releases it's almost certain that BR Early and Late will be done. Unless anyone knows something I don't?

 

EDIT: No Decorum has pointed me in the correct direction for this info...

Edited September 26, 2016 by Derails Models

[Dunsignalling]

Well ...you've said it.Considering the current stated of the art,that seems quite a challenge.A tough nut to crack ?

My Kernow O2 manages 5/6 coaches (mixed Bachmann Mk1/Bulleid, Hornby Maunsells) without difficulty but it'll depend on how hard a pull the Birdcages turn out to be. 

 

That would be pretty much the maximum prototype loading for an O2 and, unless undertaking ecs work between Waterloo and Clapham, was an M7 or H ever expected to do much more? 

 

"Down West" there were so many large and medium sized locos available that small tanks were seldom required to pull more than three coaches plus a van.  

 

John

Edited September 26, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[Ian Hargrave]

My Kernow O2 manages 5/6 coaches (mixed Bachmann Mk1/Bulleid, Hornby Maunsells) without difficulty but it'll depend on how hard a pull the Birdcages turn out to be. 

 

The layout it runs on has expresses that are generally eleven coaches. The station can take more but it makes the fiddle yard tricky to work and slows things down.

 

However, there are so many large and medium sized locos available for use that the tanks are seldom required to pull more than three coaches plus a van.  

 

John

Agree....3+van is ok with the above...but to repeat (sorry) only two of the new suburban Maunsells.

[No Decorum]

We're now taking interest for these online and instore, had a couple of orders from regulars already so looks like a good choice. It say's three liveries, will be interesting to see whether they do SECR or Southern as the third, as from previous releases it's almost certain that BR Early and Late will be done. Unless anyone knows something I don't?

Following the link in the OP we find: “Hornby have announced their intention to initially in 2017 to produce three versions: SECR full lined green, Southern olive green (subject to confirmation) and early emblem BR liveries; along with a fourth BR late crest variant in a train pack with two Maunsell 6xx series Pull Push coaches.”

[Derails Models]

Following the link in the OP we find: “Hornby have announced their intention to initially in 2017 to produce three versions: SECR full lined green, Southern olive green (subject to confirmation) and early emblem BR liveries; along with a fourth BR late crest variant in a train pack with two Maunsell 6xx series Pull Push coaches.”

Oh boy I think I'll go back to sleep now, no idea how I missed that!   Best thing is that I went through to both links in that post but must have missed that paragraph on the bottom of Graham's blog! Thanks for drawing my attention to it.

[Dunsignalling]

Agree....3+van is ok with the above...but to repeat (sorry) only two of the new suburban Maunsells.

Two is all I've got, with one now sorted one out to my complete satisfaction, though I shouldn't have needed to. The other is much better than it was and I will be trying the recommended trick using T-Cut to get it to the same standard. 

 

Bear in mind that the non-corridor LSW rebuilds were converted primarily with branch trains and main-line stoppers in mind. On the South Western, the more heavily used suburban routes had been electrified by the time they arrived on the scene. 

 

The longest train composed completely of the type that I have seen in photos was a 2-set with a loose third attached to each end.

 

John

Edited September 26, 2016 by Dunsignalling

[Fat Lieutenant]

Following the link in the OP we find: “Hornby have announced their intention to initially in 2017 to produce three versions: SECR full lined green, Southern olive green (subject to confirmation) and early emblem BR liveries; along with a fourth BR late crest variant in a train pack with two Maunsell 6xx series Pull Push coaches.”

 

Great news that there will be a release in pre-Grouping livery, and one that can be used to represent the pre-Grouping period, and not just the Bluebell preservation scene.

 

As a newcomer to the hobby (and another of those who did not live through the 50s or 60s), it is really very striking how the main manufacturers have become so focussed on late steam-age production, so it's good to see a return to Edwardian Elegance at least with this release.  

 

I will certainly buy one in fully lined SECR green.  A great development.