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Have been compairing the Hornby haa wagons, and am leaning towards the old r249 haa wagon as the better model. Sure, the new one has separate brake detail and finer brake leavers, but as to the solebar the wrong hight for incorrect wheels, and buffers totally the wrongshape, why give us sprung buffers if wrong?

 

It may be a nice model, but these errors for the price, me is thinking of the old wagons cheep on Ebay, remove the old coupling, and fitting metal wheels.

 

Anybody else have a comment?

 

Cheesy

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I always thought that the new HAA is a better, more accurate model but...you live and learn!

Anyway as someone who built up scale length mgr trains with both new & old - the new model is FAR superior in that it will actually roll along the track.

I went to all efforts with the old wagons, metal wheels, Kadee couplers etc - no amount of (simple) improving could make them work reliably.

Maybe if i'd gone down the route of re-engineering them with new, floating "W irons" etc, it may have worked but i was not prepared to do that to 24 wagons!

Now, i have a train of 36 of the new wagons, i do put kadees (19/20) on them all and weight the first wagon but i never have a problem and at one point on my layout, the train is going through about 420 degrees of curvature!

HTH,

John E.

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Have been compairing the Hornby haa wagons, and am leaning towards the old r249 haa wagon as the better model. Sure, the new one has separate brake detail and finer brake leavers, but as to the solebar the wrong hight for incorrect wheels, and buffers totally the wrongshape, why give us sprung buffers if wrong?

 

It may be a nice model, but these errors for the price, me is thinking of the old wagons cheep on Ebay, remove the old coupling, and fitting metal wheels.

 

Anybody else have a comment?

 

Cheesy

 

Whats wrong with the wheel size? I thought the new Hornby model was fitted with the correct 14mm wheels (unlike the old one which had wheels which were much too small.)

 

There are also issues on the new one with the shape of the hopper (especially around the cradle), though I'm not sure if the old model was much better in that area. Chassis is a lot better looking on the new one, and as has been mentioned they run a lot better as well.

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I think that at the end of the day, the new model had much more going for it than the old one. The shape may be a little out but if you weather the hell out of them like the prototype then who's going to notice from normal viewing distances?

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I always thought that the new HAA is a better, more accurate model but...you live and learn!

Anyway as someone who built up scale length mgr trains with both new & old - the new model is FAR superior in that it will actually roll along the track.

I went to all efforts with the old wagons, metal wheels, Kadee couplers etc - no amount of (simple) improving could make them work reliably.

Maybe if i'd gone down the route of re-engineering them with new, floating "W irons" etc, it may have worked but i was not prepared to do that to 24 wagons!

Now, i have a train of 36 of the new wagons, i do put kadees (19/20) on them all and weight the first wagon but i never have a problem and at one point on my layout, the train is going through about 420 degrees of curvature!

HTH,

John E.

You obviously weren't at Members day a couple of years ago... had you been you would have seen some of my vast collection of the old HAAs running in long rakes on Ravensclyffe.

 

Andi

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I think that at the end of the day, the new model had much more going for it than the old one. The shape may be a little out but if you weather the hell out of them like the prototype then who's going to notice from normal viewing distances?

 

I'd agree that the new model has more going for it than the old, but how exactly does weathering hide fundamental shape errors?

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I'd agree that the new model has more going for it than the old, but how exactly does weathering hide fundamental shape errors?

 

Objectively, it doesnt, but I think it goes deeper than that. If a model presents a convincing appearance via a good weathering process, the 'suspension of disbelief' (something that you have to exercise, because otherwise you'd never enjoy viewing any model because you know it's a model) becomes a more willing process and you wont be so automatically be drawn to its shortcomings. We all have different trigger points for that suspension, of course, and we all have some things that will always jar with us, but I think the principle's sound.

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Avoiding the question about which is better, the old or the new model, here are some links to how I've got my old ones to run reliably

 

Firstly a couple of bits from the old RMweb

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=51158&p=783463&hilit=HAAs#p783463

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=45920&p=696771&hilit=HAAs#p694704

 

My workbench thread from the DEMU forum

http://www.demu.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8462.0.html

 

Andi

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Whats wrong with the wheel size? I thought the new Hornby model was fitted with the correct 14mm wheels (unlike the old one which had wheels which were much too small.)

 

From what I know, the wheels are correct, but due to modelling clearances, the solebar has had to be raised, creating some other dimentions to be fudged. Also, it has the buffers off the cda, not the haa, so those nice sprung buffers are wrong. The body/cradle just doesn`t look right to me either, but that the old one look better (not saying it is, just looks like it is). The underframe and running qualities of the new one are great, and the detail added, especially underneath, is outstanding, but for the price one would hope so.

 

My plan, if I get chance with the chill blanes running round, is to get some old ones cheap, and see about some aftermarket bit to improve the underframes and running qualities.

 

Cheesy

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Avoiding the question about which is better, the old or the new model, here are some links to how I've got my old ones to run reliably

 

Firstly a couple of bits from the old RMweb

http://www.rmweb.co....it=HAAs#p783463

http://www.rmweb.co....it=HAAs#p694704

 

My workbench thread from the DEMU forum

http://www.demu.org....index.php/topic,8462.0.html

 

Andi

 

 

Thanks for that, Andi!

I can see why you don't want to have to keep repeating yourself with regards to "how to do HAA's properly"!!!!!!! That really is a neat trick, i wish i had heard of it before spending a small fortune on the new wagons, ce la vie!!!

That was the main reason i went for the new wagons - their running qualities!

Also, i like the look of dunking the 'tub' in caustic soda overnight to render the silver paintwork more realistic - might try that myself!

Best regards,

John E.

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Hi Cheesy,

 

It really depends on your budget and also which model you prefer. I have only seen the new model in a box and not next to the original to have a good comparison. Have heard mixed reviews of them.

 

I have a couple of rakes of the older version (I am not in the same league as Mr. Dagworth!) which were bought many years ago and after weathering I am more than happy with them. Yes they are old and I am sure the newer model is far superior but behind a Grid and trundling past would you really notice? I don’t know.

 

Here are a couple of photos of the HAAs that I weathered last year:

 

 

DPP_0525s.jpg

 

 

 

DPP_0524s.jpg

 

 

 

DPP_0428s.jpg

 

I am happy with mine and could not afford the time or money to replace the 70 odd old ones that I have. The main thing is that you are happy, whether that be with the older or newer models.

 

Hope that helps.

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  • 11 years later...
On 15/03/2010 at 00:11, Dagworth said:

Avoiding the question about which is better, the old or the new model, here are some links to how I've got my old ones to run reliably

 

Firstly a couple of bits from the old RMweb

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=51158&p=783463&hilit=HAAs#p783463

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=45920&p=696771&hilit=HAAs#p694704

 

My workbench thread from the DEMU forum

http://www.demu.org.uk/forum/index.php/topic,8462.0.html

 

Andi

Andi,

 

Sorry to drag up this old posting of yours, but I can't get the links to the 'old' RMWeb to work. Any chance you could provide some details of your HAA 'modifications'. Thanks.

 

Ian

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