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Andy Hayter

00 rtr Models with potential to be used on pre-grouping layouts

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I could make an exact copy of your layout then, but set 50-60 years earlier. If they appeared next to each other at an exhibition, it would be interesting to see how many people recognised my single track broad gauge line as being the same location!

 

That is a very good point!

 

If I modelled the location in, say, 1929, it would look very different from 1935.  The location changed, but would still be recognisable, but the stock would give the piece a different flavour.

 

Now look to the date range of pre-Grouping, which, as you note, allows things to be very different from one possible date for a layout setting to another.

 

Even without changing the date, variety can be achieved.

 

Let us say that I purchase a Hornby H Class and Bachmann Birdcages in due course, in SE&CR livery, intent upon portraying the SE&CR in the years before the Great War.  I give this example as it is likely to prove to be the first RTR standard gauge pre-Grouping train to modern standards.

 

I could run this round my Code 100 circuit in Metcalfeville.  Or, I could build a 'what if' or fictional SECR branch scheme, with characteristic SE&CR style structures, signals, etc.  Goods services provided by a Bachmann C. With the RTR releases and some wagon kits, I'd have a nice little themed layout.  I could leave it there.  I might find I am one of a number of Kentish Ashburtons, but never mind that.

 

Or, I could think about what would be representative and prototypical for the period in a given real or fictional location. I am still within the, say, 1912-1914 timeframe that the RTR releases might support, but soon, I would realise that I needed other things. 

 

Perhaps I will add a P Class (resin and white-metal kits available  - ask Gary) to my branch line. Or,  I might intensify my suburban service with a SE Finecast R1.   If considering fast, mainline, services I might need South Eastern Finecast D and E Class locomotives.  I might want an O1 from Golden Arrow to help with the increased goods traffic.

 

I would realise that other coaches were needed to make representative services.  That might include the precursors of the Bachmann coaches; 50' and 54' 3-Sets.  I have thus added variety already, in coach lengths and style, because I have introduced 'Ashford Gothic'. 

 

Next I think that, well, the SE&CR ran a lot of sets, but they were not all modern, uniform 3-Sets.  What about making up one or 2 other known sets using SE&CR, SER and LCDR coaches?  More variety.

 

Next I think about boat train stock, and the very distinctive look I'll lend my layout by including Gilbert cars.

 

So, the locomotives and a couple of Bachmann 3-sets get me off to a flying start.  In the end, they might represent no more than 20-30% of what I run on the layout, but that is still a significant contribution, and it enabled me to make a start.  In terms of everything I add, I choose the prototype, the combination of elements, the particular locomotive and condition I want.  Individually unique models, part of a unique combination of RTR, modified RTR, kit and scratch-built items.

 

Add to this a well-observed rendering of some SE&CR infrastructure and distinctive line-side secenary 

 

In what sense is the result likely to look like every other SE&CR layout set 1912-1914?

Edited by Edwardian
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So, the locomotives and a couple of Bachmann 3-sets get me off to a flying start.  In the end, they might represent no more than 20-30% of what I run on the layout, but that is still a significant contribution, and it enabled me to make a start.  In terms of everything I add, I choose the prototype, the combination of elements, the particular locomotive and condition I want.  Individually unique models, part of a unique combination of RTR, modified RTR, kit and scratch-built items.

I think it's that flying start that's important. I doubt it will ever be possible to build a comprehensive pre-grouping layout using only RTR locos and stock, so some level of modelling skill will be needed. But it makes it vastly easier than starting from nothing, and having to build, or do major RTR bashing, everything you need. My 1905ish GWR BLT of 40 years ago ended up with mostly 1930s locos and stock because there was nothing of a suitable period available RTR. I got as far as building one suitable loco, plus some rolling stock kits, although the Hornby clerestory coaches helped when they came along. It's only now that I'm making an effort to get the right stock for the Mk 2 version, thanks in part to a Hornby RTR loco that I aim to backdate.

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Perhaps I will add a P Class (resin and white-metal kits available  - ask Gary)

 

Unfortunately the resin P Class kit I have is a Dean Sidings kit one and the range stopped being produced last year, and as far as I'm aware wasn't taken over.

 

Gary

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Unfortunately the resin P Class kit I have is a Dean Sidings kit one and the range stopped being produced last year, and as far as I'm aware wasn't taken over.

 

Gary

 

Shame.  SE Finecast do one in white-metal, I believe

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It is indeed a shame. The Dean Sidings one is so easy to put together and fits onto an R-T-R chassis with very little modification. Mine has had less than 2 hours spent on it and it is sitting waiting for paint.

 

Gary

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I did purchase one each of the Pom-pom (which is very nice indeed and needs little doing to it) and the Director. In all honesty, the only reason I got the latter was because I saw one going dead cheap! They are both still in their boxes. I have seen a 2-8-0 up close as a friend has one. I already have 4 "pom poms", either kit  built (by me) or scratchbuilt (by Peter Denny) so there is no great rush to get the RTR operational for EM gauge.

 

The Director and O4 are both too modern for my chosen period. The Director is modelled as preserved and at first glance, the lettering on the tender is wrong for GC period (too big and totally wrong shading) and as far as I know, the smokebox never had visible rivets in GC days. There will be other things but as I will probably never do anything with it I haven't drawn up a full list.

 

At first glance, the things I spotted on the 2-8-0 are that it has an ROD tender, which was only carried by possibly 3 locos in GC days and 1185 was not one of them. It also has a snifting valve (which I am pretty sure is an LNER addition) behind the chimney, the wrong chimney and safety valves and the whistle should be on the cab roof. Perhaps some locos were like that but I haven't seen any photos. The tender rear should be lined and from memory it isn't.

 

There may be other things but as I don't intend betting one, I also don't intend spending time compiling a list of things that need changing.

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Just a thought as this post drifts down the lists:

 

As a basic information source, should this thread be pinned?

 

What do others think?

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That would get my vote - very informative.

Perhaps the scope of the thread could be widened to those RTR models whose chassis (for example) can be used under a kit/scratch built body?

As a Scottish Region modeller, pre grouping locos are a must for any layout right up to the end of steam here in 1967 and there is of course a total dearth of the same available RTR.

Edited by Bon Accord

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