Churminster & Stowe Magna, Southern Railway

[Mick Bonwick]

5 minutes ago, Tony Teague said:

weathering will only improve it further.

 

True.

 

[Tony Teague]

At the top of this page, Jack P. asked that I post some pictures of van and parcels trains, and aside from not having any images to hand, my only other reservation is that the majority of this stock is as yet unweathered.

 

(It is on the enormously long roundtuit list!).

 

Most of my stock is arranged into fairly fixed rakes, and so here is the morning Up, inter-regional parcels train, having just passed through Stowe Magna - a motly collection:

 

 

Dealing with each vehicle in turn:

 

 

A Bachmann SR PMV leads, closely followed by a much older model, a GMR / Airfix GWR 50'Siphon G

 

 

This in turn is followed by a pair of LNER Gresley Pigeon vans, built by me from the excellent Chivers Finelines kit:

 

 

They are weathered but the roofs need considerably more attention! Then come a pair of short SR, ex-LSWR vans which I think are from Mallard kits but built by Marc Models:

 

 

and a much more recent Hornby SR Van C.

 

 

An LNER extra long CCT which I built from the Parkside Dundas kit - with a shockingly white roof!

 

 

and then a GWR Mink D, again from a Parkside Dundas kit (roof - ditto!)

 

 

before two SR vans bring up the rear:

 

 

A much altered Hornby SR bogie luggage van, and then finally, a Parkside Dundas SR CCT.

 

 

A little later in the day there is a balancing Down parcels train, and this will follow in a subsequent post.

 

Tony

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by Tony Teague

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, Tony Teague said:

At the top of this page, Jack P. asked that I post some pictures of van and parcels trains, and aside from not having any images to hand, my only other reservation is that the majority of this stock is as yet unweathered.

 

(It is on the enormously long roundtuit list!).

 

Most of my stock is arranged into fairly fixed rakes, and so here is the morning Up, inter-regional parcels train, having just passed through Stowe Magna - a motly collection:

 

 

Dealing with each vehicle in turn:

 

 

A Bachmann SR PMV leads, closely followed by a much older model, a GMR / Airfix GWR 50'Siphon G

 

This in turn is followed by a pair of LNER Gresley Pigeon vans, built by me from the excellent Chivers Finelines kit:

 

 

They are weathered but the roofs need considerably more attention! Then come a pair of short SR, ex-LSWR vans which I think are from Mallard kits but built by Marc Models:

 

 

and a much more recent Hornby SR Van C.

 

 

An LNER extra long CCT which I built from the Parkside Dundas kit - with a shockingly white roof!

 

 

and then a GWR Mink D, again from a Parkside Dundas kit (roof - ditto!)

 

 

before two SR vans bring up the rear:

 

 

A much altered Hornby SR bogie luggage van, and then finally, a Parkside Dundas SR CCT.

 

 

A little later in the day there is a balancing Down parcels train, and this will follow in a subsequent post.

 

Tony

Very nice Tony. I do like parcels trains.

 

Did you use the Roxey kit to detail the SR bogie luggage van? I did one years ago and it made a very nice model.

[Tony Teague]

7 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Very nice Tony. I do like parcels trains.

 

Did you use the Roxey kit to detail the SR bogie luggage van? I did one years ago and it made a very nice model.

 

Thanks, and yes, I did several of them in one go; some bits were a bit fiddly and there is still room for improvement but I agree, it makes a nice model and rather a lot better than the Hornby original!

 

Tony

[ianwales]

Hi Tony

 

Just read through the whole thread, really enjoyed it, wonderful modelling very inspiring, nice to see someone modelling parcels trains, a sometime neglected part of the railway scene.

 

Just one comment regarding the parcels train, shouldn't the VanC be further towards the rear as I think, and I'm no expert although a signalman in real life, there was a specified maximum number of vehicles allowed behind the brake in which the guard rode which I think was 2?

 

Ian

[Tony Teague]

1 hour ago, ianwales said:

Hi Tony

 

Just read through the whole thread, really enjoyed it, wonderful modelling very inspiring, nice to see someone modelling parcels trains, a sometime neglected part of the railway scene.

 

Just one comment regarding the parcels train, shouldn't the VanC be further towards the rear as I think, and I'm no expert although a signalman in real life, there was a specified maximum number of vehicles allowed behind the brake in which the guard rode which I think was 2?

 

Ian

 

Hi Ian

 

Thanks and glad you enjoyed the thread!

I think you are probably right - especially as there is no other brake vehicle in the train.

Consider it done!

 

Tony

[Jack P]

13 hours ago, Tony Teague said:

there is still room for improvement

 

I thought so too, So I sent some drawings off to Allen at Worsley Works, he's in the throes of putting together his usual kit (sides, ends and floor), I was considering building one out of plasticard, but I feared the weight of the roxey detailing kit would make it bow in the middle!

 

Thanks for the pics of the parcels, gives me some more inspiration for my own!

[Tony Teague]

 

52 minutes ago, Jack P said:

 

I thought so too, So I sent some drawings off to Allen at Worsley Works, he's in the throes of putting together his usual kit (sides, ends and floor), I was considering building one out of plasticard, but I feared the weight of the roxey detailing kit would make it bow in the middle!

 

Thanks for the pics of the parcels, gives me some more inspiration for my own!

 

The Hornby / Roxey combo is not bad but essentially it is not the right length!

As far as I remember - it is a while ago - there were two batches of the prototype, each of different length and the Hornby body doesn't match either!

Bottom line, however, is that as I have 9 of these each upgraded with a Roxey kit, I won't be looking to replace them any time soon!

 

Tony

[Jack P]

3 hours ago, Tony Teague said:

The Hornby / Roxey combo is not bad but essentially it is not the right length!

As far as I remember - it is a while ago - there were two batches of the prototype, each of different length and the Hornby body doesn't match either!

Bottom line, however, is that as I have 9 of these each upgraded with a Roxey kit, I won't be looking to replace them any time soon!

 

Tony

 

You're quite right Tony. Without sounding snobbish, there were some compromises that I was unwilling to accept. The planking being raised panel lines, as opposed to recessed, and the length being the main ones. Both required more than a simple update to fix, so I thought it better to start with something more accurate. Having the roxey detailing kit already is a huge help as it means that I've got most of the required bits to go with the WW Shell.

 

I appreciate in your position, effectively binning 9 perfectly good vans, only to then fork out a substantial amount for kits.. etc, not the most cost effective idea!

 

 Any other 'fixed rake' photos you'd like to share would be well received i'm sure!

[Tony Teague]

You don't sound snobbish Jack at all - we all make different compromises.

Now if someone brought out a new, accurate, RTR model I'd probably go for wholesale fleet replacement, but on the basis that life is too short and there are other things on my rather extensive roundtuit list, I just couldn't take on a batch of builds using what amounts to be 'scratch building aids' rather than kits!

Nevertheless I'll be keen to see what you come up with.

 

Tony

[Tony Teague]

Sticking with the van train theme, here is a further selection; first a couple that I quite like but which are attached to passenger rakes rather than within a complete van train:

 

 

No.227 is a 44' ex-LSWR full brake built from a Roxey kit.

 

 

No.328 is a 56' LSWR passenger van - panelled stock. I find these two particularly elegant looking!

 

Then there is the Down parcels rake that mirrors the Up service already seen; the current rake includes:

 

 

A Hornby LMS 50' BG parcels van

 

 

Another pair of those Hornby / Roxey bogie luggage vans

 

 

A couple of sausage vans; the 50' GWR siphon G by Lima and the 6w LMS van by Hornby with replacement running gear by Marc Models

 

 

These two 6w LMS express fish vans from Chivers kits have recently been added into the rake

 

 

and bringing up the rear a further trio of SR vans - a CCT from a Parkside Dundas kit, yet another bogie luggage van and a guards Van B by Hornby.

 

Currently somewhere in the sidings awaiting attention is, amongst other things, a Hornby LNER Gresley full brake and a rather nice SR 53' bogie scenery / elephant van built for me from a CRT kit by Chris White - which I really must fit with some kind of couplings!

 

 

I undertake to show these all again once they have been weathered!

 

Tony

Edited November 10, 2022 by Tony Teague

[Tony Teague]

Well it has been 6 months and about 5 pages of postings since I last mentioned my "missing locos" list, but with the arrival of the E4-X on a test run from the loco works, it is time to re-visit the topic:

 

 

I deliberated long and hard as to whether the loco should have side clacks, but after seeing two pictures of No.2466 in pre-war lined olive livery with these fitted, I finally took the plunge!

 

 

Then there was the question as to what livery to adopt, and unsurprisingly, 24 hours after I had sprayed her black, evidence emerged that perhaps she should be in unlined olive but with sunshine lettering; nevertheless I decided that wartime black would be good, and so here she is, and below, posed alongside one of her slimmer, E4 cousins.

 

 

So to summarise, No.2466 is the E6-X which comprises a Shapeways 3D printed body designed by JavierP, and this is sitting on a Bachmann E4 chassis; No.2473 is an RTR E4, made by OO Works.

 

All that is left to complete on the E4-X is to add a little more weight inside the side tanks, plus a rear coupling, and then to weather her.

 

So where does this leave the "missing locos" list? Here it is in some sense of likely delivery order:

 

LB&SCR Billinton E5X    (4) - build in hand - 3D printed body held and SEF E5 chassis part built - this will be next to be completed

Fowler 150hp shunter (DM400/600)      (2) - supplier identified who has made considerable progress so that this may be 2nd in line

SR Maunsell I1X             (18) - 3D printed body now in design + Alan Gibson milled chassis frames to hand

LB&SCR Marsh C3        (8) - design & drawings in hand for delivery of a 'kit of parts'

SECR Wainwright F1      (9) - solution = Jidenco kit in hand but need to find a builder - this kit is way beyond me!

LSWR Drummond S11   (10) - further set of L12 body parts in hand; sourcing correct wheels for adapted SE Finecast T9 chassis (think T9 with large boiler & smaller wheels)

LB&SCR Billinton B4X   (12) - potential solution through a 3D printed body under exploration

LB&SCR Marsh D3X      (1) - potential solution through an intended 3D printed body, chassis still to be sourced
LSWR Drummond C14  (3) - although a CSP / Agenoria kit was announced years ago, delivery seems unlikely and so I have identified an alternate supplier

KESR 0-8-0T Hecate      (1) - supplier identified who will take this forward
Soton Dock Co. 0458      (1) - possible solution to modify CSP Agenoria kit CSP 04 identified & kit now obtained

SECR Wainwright B1    (16) - a Jidenco kit exists and one recently sold on Flea-bay for about £300, but I wasn't the buyer - so I still have to find one or an alternative!

DS75                               (1) - solution identified involving newly designed & drawn etches / castings

 

So currently still 13 to go, but probably at least 2 of those, plus the E4-X will be delivered during the current year - slower than I would like, but progress none the less.

 

Tony 

Edited November 10, 2022 by Tony Teague

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Tony Teague said:

Well it has been 6 months and about 5 pages of postings since I last mentioned my "missing locos" list, but with the arrival of the E4-X on a test run from the loco works, it is time to re-visit the topic:

 

 

I deliberated long and hard as to whether the loco should have side clacks, but after seeing two pictures of No.2466 in pre-war lined olive livery with these fitted, I finally took the plunge!

 

 

Then there was the question as to what livery to adopt, and unsurprisingly, 24 hours after I had sprayed her black, evidence emerged that perhaps she should be in unlined olive but with sunshine lettering; nevertheless I decided that wartime black would be good, and so here she is, and below, posed alongside one of her slimmer, E4 cousins.

 

 

So to summarise, No.2466 is the E6-X which comprises a Shapeways 3D printed body designed by JavierP, and this is sitting on a Bachmann E4 chassis; No.2473 is an RTR E4, made by OO Works.

 

All that is left to complete on the E4-X is to add a little more weight inside the side tanks, plus a rear coupling, and then to weather her.

 

So where does this leave the "missing locos" list? Here it is in some sense of likely delivery order:

 

LB&SCR Billinton E5X    (4) - build in hand - 3D printed body held and SEF E5 chassis part built - this will be next to be completed

Fowler 150hp shunter (DM400/600)      (2) - supplier identified who has made considerable progress so that this may be 2nd in line

SR Maunsell I1X             (18) - 3D printed body now in design + Alan Gibson milled chassis frames to hand

LB&SCR Marsh C3        (8) - design & drawings in hand for delivery of a 'kit of parts'

SECR Wainwright F1      (9) - solution = Jidenco kit in hand but need to find a builder - this kit is way beyond me!

LSWR Drummond S11   (10) - further set of L12 body parts in hand; sourcing correct wheels for adapted SE Finecast T9 chassis (think T9 with large boiler & smaller wheels)

LB&SCR Billinton B4X   (12) - potential solution through a 3D printed body under exploration

LB&SCR Marsh D3X      (1) - potential solution through an intended 3D printed body, chassis still to be sourced
LSWR Drummond C14  (3) - although a CSP / Agenoria kit was announced years ago, delivery seems unlikely and so I have identified an alternate supplier

KESR 0-8-0T Hecate      (1) - supplier identified who will take this forward
Soton Dock Co. 0458      (1) - possible solution to modify CSP Agenoria kit CSP 04 identified & kit now obtained

SECR Wainwright B1    (16) - a Jidenco kit exists and one recently sold on Flea-bay for about £300, but I wasn't the buyer - so I still have to find one or an alternative!

DS75                               (1) - solution identified involving newly designed & drawn etches / castings

 

So currently still 13 to go, but probably at least 2 of those, plus the E4-X will be delivered during the current year - slower than I would like, but progress none the less.

 

Tony 

 

Sorry to have to say this, Tony, but the 3D printing "striations" do show up too clearly in those photos.

[Jack P]

1 hour ago, St Enodoc said:

Sorry to have to say this, Tony, but the 3D printing "striations" do show up too clearly in those photos.

 

What material are you printing with Tony? FDM or SLA?

[Tony Teague]

10 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Sorry to have to say this, Tony, but the 3D printing "striations" do show up too clearly in those photos.

 

8 hours ago, Jack P said:

 

What material are you printing with Tony? FDM or SLA?

 

This is Shapeways latest and current 'best' = "Smoothest Fine Detail" (the two grades below this now being "Smooth Fine Detail" and "White Natural Versatile", relative costs being (£137 / £86 / £50) - so until the technology moves along I suspect this is as good as it will be.

 

It is fair to say that the camera is cruel and that, with the naked eye, you will only see the lines upon closer examination, plus I believe that weathering will do a lot to tone things down, nevertheless I accept that the finish will not be acceptable to many.

 

For me, all modelling is a compromise, and currently this is perhaps the best way to secure a model of one of a class of only 4 prototypes; if you look carefully at the 12 year old OO Works RTR model standing next to it you will see that it's lamp irons are wrong or missing, it lacks any rivet detail, and only some of the handrails are present, but at the time, that was what you got for £160. That said it makes a reasonable 'layout loco'; the later Bachmann E4 is of course significantly better, and cheaper too.

 

I have yet to see another 4mm representation of an E4-X (or indeed an E5-X or E6-X) but if any exist, then I'd be keen to see what they look like and how they were achieved, because as of the moment I know of no other reasonably achievable solutions for at least half of my remaining 'missing locos'.

 

Tony

[Mick Bonwick]

10 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Sorry to have to say this, Tony, but the 3D printing "striations" do show up too clearly in those photos.

 

If it was mine, I'd not bother about that one little bit. A photograph will always show up the slightest imperfections, but if I'm only going to view my models from a distance of three feet or more while they're running on my layout, and cannot therefore see these lines, then that's absolutely fine. If 3D printing is the only way I can get something that I can't do without then disadvantages such as these would be acceptable.

[Tony Teague]

32 minutes ago, Mick Bonwick said:

 

If it was mine, I'd not bother about that one little bit. A photograph will always show up the slightest imperfections, but if I'm only going to view my models from a distance of three feet or more while they're running on my layout, and cannot therefore see these lines, then that's absolutely fine. If 3D printing is the only way I can get something that I can't do without then disadvantages such as these would be acceptable.

 

Thanks Mick - that pretty much sums up where I am at.

[Jack P]

I only ask what material you're using Tony, as I to have been looking into 3D printing, and the fellow that's been doing the designing vigorously and frequently suggests that we need to be using a resin printer, I'm not 100% on the technicalities of why they're better, but, I think it's to do with there being a larger amount of layers, and the thickness of the layers being drastically reduced. 

 

Hopefully I can put my money where my mouth is and show you when we finish the print for the LBSC J1! The E4x looks superb and absolutely captures the look of the loco!

 

 

[Tony Teague]

Hi Jack - perfectly understood and resin may be an interesting alternate but I have no idea how the technology works or what the result might look like.

 

Along with many others I have a couple of SECR box vans on order from Rails which I believe is going to be in some kind of resin - but who knows?

 

 

With the early £D prints people talked a lot about using filler primers and then rubbing down, but then you lose any detail, plus so far as I understand it, the layers which cause the striations run right though the material, so no amount of sanding down will get rid of them - thus I didn't do any!

 

I look forward to seeing your J1 in due course, but here is my J2 by way of inspiration! (From an Ace Products kit, built by Chris Phillips)

 

 

Tony

 

Edited November 10, 2022 by Tony Teague

[Bluebell Model Railway]

Nice looking model, 3d printing does offer us the chance to produce kits and models no one else has. 

 

The problems with Shapeways is all too familiar... They do need a lot of work and prep to remove the layers... What would of helped this particular print is its orientation which hasn't helped... Problem is Shapeways don't always look despite designers being allowed decide which way it gets printed. Sadly it's more get as much in as possible maximum profit sadly quality takes a dip. 

 

So I purchased my own no more problems. You will still get some lines with resin but a lot less work required. 

Shapeways do offer resin but not to public I think.... 

 

Overall you have a nice model. And one of a kind.

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, Tony Teague said:

 

 

This is Shapeways latest and current 'best' = "Smoothest Fine Detail" (the two grades below this now being "Smooth Fine Detail" and "White Natural Versatile", relative costs being (£137 / £86 / £50) - so until the technology moves along I suspect this is as good as it will be.

 

It is fair to say that the camera is cruel and that, with the naked eye, you will only see the lines upon closer examination, plus I believe that weathering will do a lot to tone things down, nevertheless I accept that the finish will not be acceptable to many.

 

For me, all modelling is a compromise, and currently this is perhaps the best way to secure a model of one of a class of only 4 prototypes; if you look carefully at the 12 year old OO Works RTR model standing next to it you will see that it's lamp irons are wrong or missing, it lacks any rivet detail, and only some of the handrails are present, but at the time, that was what you got for £160. That said it makes a reasonable 'layout loco'; the later Bachmann E4 is of course significantly better, and cheaper too.

 

I have yet to see another 4mm representation of an E4-X (or indeed an E5-X or E6-X) but if any exist, then I'd be keen to see what they look like and how they were achieved, because as of the moment I know of no other reasonably achievable solutions for at least half of my remaining 'missing locos'.

 

Tony

Fair enough Tony. If it's only a quirk of the camera then that's good.

[pete_mcfarlane]

16 hours ago, Tony Teague said:

SECR Wainwright B1    (16) - a Jidenco kit exists and one recently sold on Flea-bay for about £300, but I wasn't the buyer - so I still have to find one or an alternative!

Dan Garrett is planning to do a 7mm version  of the B/B1: https://serkits.com/whats-new-and-whats-planned/

 

I'm sure if he'll ask nicely you'll be able to get a 4mm reduction of the etch. I have his Q/Q1 and A class etches in my to do pile, and they look far better than any Jidenco kit I've ever seen and set me back far less than £300.  

[Tony Teague]

4 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

Dan Garrett is planning to do a 7mm version  of the B/B1: https://serkits.com/whats-new-and-whats-planned/

 

I'm sure if he'll ask nicely you'll be able to get a 4mm reduction of the etch. I have his Q/Q1 and A class etches in my to do pile, and they look far better than any Jidenco kit I've ever seen and set me back far less than £300.  

 

That's very helpful Pete; I had no idea and will certainly ask nicely!

Tony

[Tony Teague]

 

21 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

Dan Garrett is planning to do a 7mm version  of the B/B1: https://serkits.com/whats-new-and-whats-planned/

 

I'm sure if he'll ask nicely you'll be able to get a 4mm reduction of the etch. I have his Q/Q1 and A class etches in my to do pile, and they look far better than any Jidenco kit I've ever seen and set me back far less than £300.  

 

Thanks to Pete's timely suggestion I have made contact with Dan Garrett (SER Kits) who has already responded! His plans put delivery of an F1 etch well ahead of that for a B1, although he may eventually get to that too. Since he designs first for 7mm, a 4mm version will be delivered a little later.

 

The Jidenco kit that I have will allegedly build either an F1 of a B1 and so I have amended my 'missing' list to show the Jidenco kit allocated to the B1 and will wait on SER Kits / Dan Garrett for the F1. Incidentally, the number in brackets against each loco represents just how many, or few, there were in each prototype class:

 

LB&SCR Billinton E5X    (4) - build in hand - 3D printed body held and SEF E5 chassis part built - this will be next to be completed

SR / Fowler 150hp shunter (DM400/600)     (2) - supplier identified who has made considerable progress so that this may be 2nd in line

SR Maunsell I1X             (18) - 3D printed body now in design + Alan Gibson milled chassis frames to hand

LB&SCR Marsh C3        (8) - design & drawings in hand for delivery of a 'kit of parts'

LSWR Drummond S11   (10) - further set of L12 body parts in hand; sourcing correct wheels for adapted SE Finecast T9 chassis (think T9 with large boiler & smaller wheels)

SECR Wainwright F1      (9) - SER Kits have design and drawings in hand for a 7mm kit which they are prepared to scale down to produce 4mm etches

LB&SCR Billinton B4X   (12) - potential solution through a 3D printed body under exploration

LB&SCR Marsh D3X      (1) - potential solution through an intended 3D printed body, chassis still to be sourced
LSWR Drummond C14  (3) - although a CSP / Agenoria kit was announced years ago, delivery seems unlikely and so I have identified an alternate supplier

KESR 0-8-0T Hecate      (1) - supplier identified who will take this forward
Soton Dock Co. 0458      (1) - possible solution to modify CSP Agenoria kit CSP 04 identified & kit now obtained

DS75                               (1) - solution identified involving newly designed & drawn etches / castings

SECR Wainwright B1    (16) - Jidenco kit in hand but need to find a builder - this kit is way beyond me! Alternate solution to await production of SER Kits etches

 

It is pleasing to see movement on the list, but I suspect that overall this remains a 5 year project!

 

Tony

 

 

[Tony Teague]

22 hours ago, Bluebell Model Railway said:

Nice looking model, 3d printing does offer us the chance to produce kits and models no one else has. 

 

The problems with Shapeways is all too familiar... They do need a lot of work and prep to remove the layers... What would of helped this particular print is its orientation which hasn't helped... Problem is Shapeways don't always look despite designers being allowed decide which way it gets printed. Sadly it's more get as much in as possible maximum profit sadly quality takes a dip. 

 

So I purchased my own no more problems. You will still get some lines with resin but a lot less work required. 

Shapeways do offer resin but not to public I think.... 

 

Overall you have a nice model. And one of a kind.

 

Matt

 

Thanks for your comments.

Is there a website or RMWeb thread that I could go to so as to learn about 3D print orientation?

I have several more locos where this is likely to be the only solution and so it would be helpful to understand best practice.

 

Tony