Churminster & Stowe Magna, Southern Railway

[Tony Teague]

1 hour ago, Steve Hewitt said:

You've not chosen the easiest underframe to get running.

 

 

I appreciate that - now - I didn't when I bought the kit!

[Mick Bonwick]

3 hours ago, Tony Teague said:

With that in mind I enrolled on the 4mm kit making course at Missenden Abbey and recently spent a couple of very enjoyable days there, being 'tuted' by Tim Watson and Tony Gee. The pictures show where I got to over the weekend - the body is largely complete and so I now need to move onto the 6 wheel chassis

 

Please be kind with your comments - it is my first attempt!

 

 

It looks a lot different to the last time I saw it. I'd be happy if my first attempt had looked that good.

[Tony Teague]

10 minutes ago, Mick Bonwick said:

 

It looks a lot different to the last time I saw it. I'd be happy if my first attempt had looked that good.

 

Good tutors!

[Nick C]

Quite a lot of 6 wheelers that survived into later years lost their middle wheels - including all those that went to the Isle of Wight. That might be an option if you can't get the 6-wheel chassis to run well!

[Tony Teague]

3 hours ago, Nick C said:

Quite a lot of 6 wheelers that survived into later years lost their middle wheels - including all those that went to the Isle of Wight. That might be an option if you can't get the 6-wheel chassis to run well!

 

Good thought, but I am trying!

Chassis currently in build and will report back in due course.

[Tony Teague]

I have been fairly busy in the railway room since my last post - I spent a day on the LSWR 6 wheeler and have built much of the chassis and underframe, but I confess that getting the lower step-board that runs along each side straight & level has driven me crazy!

In addition I have had enough of the fumes from the phosphoric acid flux, so I needed a break! I didn't feel like wiring, or making the churchyard look pretty, so I opted for what I always do when motivation is lacking - I built some wagon kits!

 

 

Three in fact! - Now I have had enough of solvent glue fumes!

 

These are an LNER d.106 12T Fruit Van from a Peco Parkside kit, and two MR / LMS d.378 10T 16'6" Covered Goods Vans from the Slaters kit; each has a little detailing left to do before I add weight and then paint them.

 

Perhaps tomorrow I'll go for some different fumes - paint solvents, as I have these, plus I still need to paint the last batch of wagons that I built back in December:

 

 

These are a pair of SR 12T d.1452 plywood sided box vans from Ratio kits...:

 

 

....and a pair of GWR d.109 Prize Cattle vans from the Peco / Parkside kit:

 

 

I have also disassembled for repainting, a pair of Hornby / LSWR / SR 24T d. 1543 brake vans that arrived back in December sporting what appeared to be an ?LMS? light reddish-brown (?bauxite?) livery; it goes against the grain to have to re-livery brand new RTR products that cost over £20 each, but the livery is too awful to retain!

 

So it looks like the next session will be painting, but it could equally be wiring, brass coach building, or churchyard scenicking; who knows, but at least I seem to have plenty of time to get things done!

 

Tony

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by Tony Teague

[Mick Bonwick]

What it must be like to have choices. Here's me stuck with, "Do I use yellow wire or green wire to connect the decoder to the point motor?"

 

In all seriousness, that's one heck of a lot of progress! Keep up the momentum.

[Tony Teague]

1 hour ago, Mick Bonwick said:

What it must be like to have choices. Here's me stuck with, "Do I use yellow wire or green wire to connect the decoder to the point motor?"

 

In all seriousness, that's one heck of a lot of progress! Keep up the momentum.

 

There are choices you know - if you want excitement you could start ballasting!

[Tony Teague]

I have been asked in the past to explain a bit more about how the four different fiddle yards connect and provide storage capacity to the layout, and where they are located, so here is a bit more detail on that aspect. You may need to concentrate if this is to make any sense!

 

This is what one sees if standing immediately behind the backscene that separates Churminster from the main fiddle yards:

 

 

In the foreground are two rising tracks that enter the Upper Fiddle Yard and the source of those two roads can be seen on the extreme top right.

This yard is effectively a reversing loop, and so it is entered by Down trains whilst those that exit at the far end via the downward helix become Up trains and will join the Up lines.

The Upper Fiddle Yard contains 13 roads, 7 of which can accommodate two trains, front and back, whilst one further road is designated for Light Engines only and can hold nine locomotives one behind the other; the last two occupants can be seen to the extreme left. So 19 trains and 9 locomotives in total so far!

 

To the right of the Upper Fiddle Yard, but at the same level, five storage cassettes are stored, and a sixth can be seen (empty) fitted in its operational position below; each cassette can store one train consisting of a tender locomotive and up to four carriages - six more trains.

The loaded cassette is connected to the inner of two exit roads which come from the Lower Fiddle Yard which can be seen to the right of the picture, and of which, more in a moment.

 

The two Main Fiddle Yards, Up and Down, are located underneath the Upper Fiddle Yard; each of these contains 10 roads and, because they are at the front, all ten of the Up roads are in view.

Looking beyond the extreme left of the picture above, there is a small access gap between the backscene and the start of the Upper Fiddle Yard where the complete depth of the two Main Fiddle Yards, including the 10 Down roads to the rear, can be seen:

 

 

Each of the 10 Up and 10 Down roads can hold two trains in line, so 40 trains in all, plus there is a single, terminating / reversing road down the centre that holds one further train; this will normally be an EMU which will enter from the left in the Down direction and then leave, also to the left, to form an Up service.

Trains stored in the main yards tend to be longer than those in the Upper and Lower yards because no gradients are involved but the roads still vary in length with the longest, Road 1, at the rear, which can hold two trains each comprising a locomotive and up to 11 carriages.

 

As can be seen, all of the wiring to the top boards is connected via multi-way plugs so that the boards can be removed if needed - nevertheless this is highly undesirable as one may imagine!

 

Moving now to the far end of the railway room, within the descending track helix, and looking back in the opposite direction, one can perhaps get a slightly better glimpse into the Lower Fiddle Yard to the left:

 

 

Again, the two tracks rising above it are the entry roads to the Upper Fiddle Yard, but note that all trains are facing away from the camera, whereas in the Upper Yard they are facing towards us. Within the Lower Fiddle Yard the three roads nearest to the edge of the base board are terminating roads, and so trains using these must first reverse to clear the entry points and then run through the Yard to exit.

Trains enter the Lower Fiddle Yard to the immediate left of the camera position, in the Down direction, and then upon exit at the far end they travel all the way back along the two tracks to the right, which sit at a slightly lower level than that of the Main Yards, to join the Up running lines.

Like the Upper Fiddle Yard, the Lower one forms a reversing loop, and in the opposite direction to the Upper yard - if it didn't all trains would eventually end up facing the same way!  So ultimately the running roads that connect these two Yards form an overlaid figure of eight.

The Lower Fiddle Yard comprises 14 roads, one of these has been dedicated to Light Engines and can accommodate 6 locomotives, whilst the other 13 can take a single train; here are some trains lurking in the Lower Yard which is almost entirely "underground":

 

 

Aside from the main yard positions there are 7 other off-scene locations where a single train may be stored - for example 2 may be held in line on each of the two exit tracks from the lower yard before being released onto the running lines. So all in all I estimate that the total storage capability amounts to 86 complete trains (of varying length) and 15 light engines!

 

Readers may be please to know that I am not yet able to fill all of this space, but I am working hard at it!

 

If this hasn't bored you to tears, I shall attempt to explain in my next post, how these storage roads are controlled - there may then be a test!

 

Tony

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by Tony Teague

[Bogie]

WOW!!

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Tony Teague said:

I have been asked in the past to explain a bit more about how the four different fiddle yards connect and provide storage capacity to the layout, and where they are located, so here is a bit more detail on that aspect. You may need to concentrate if this is to make any sense!

 

This is what one sees if standing immediately behind the backscene that separates Churminster from the main fiddle yards:

 

 

In the foreground are two rising tracks that enter the Upper Fiddle Yard and the source of those two roads can be seen on the extreme right.

This yard is effectively a reversing loop, and so it is entered by Down trains whilst those that exit at the far end via the downward helix become Up trains and will join the Up lines.

The Upper Fiddle Yard contains 13 roads, 7 of which can accommodate two trains, front and back, whilst one further road is designated for Light Engines only and can hold nine locomotives one behind the other; the last two occupants can be seen to the extreme left. So 19 trains and 9 locomotives in total so far!

 

To the right of the Upper Fiddle Yard, but at the same level, five storage cassettes are stored, and a sixth can be seen (empty) fitted in its operational position below; each cassette can store one train consisting of a tender locomotive and up to four carriages - six more trains.

The loaded cassette is connected to the inner of two exit roads which come from the Lower Fiddle Yard which can be seen to the right of the picture, and of which, more in a moment.

 

The two Main Fiddle Yards, Up and Down, are located underneath the Upper Fiddle Yard; each of these contains 10 roads and, because they are at the front, all ten of the Up roads are in view.

Looking beyond the extreme left of the picture above, there is a small access gap between the backscene and the start of the Upper Fiddle Yard where the complete depth of the two Main Fiddle Yards, including the 10 Down roads to the rear, can be seen:

 

 

Each of the 10 Up and 10 Down roads can hold two trains in line, so 40 trains in all, plus there is a single, terminating / reversing road down the centre that holds one further train; this will normally be an EMU which will enter from the left in the Down direction and then leave, also to the left, to form an Up service.

Trains stored in the main yards tend to be longer than those in the Upper and Lower yards because no gradients are involved but the roads still vary in length with the longest, Road 1, at the rear, which can hold two trains each comprising a locomotive and up to 11 carriages.

 

As can be seen, all of the wiring to the top boards is connected via multi-way plugs so that the boards can be removed if needed - nevertheless this is highly undesirable as one may imagine!

 

Moving now to the far end of the railway room, within the descending track helix, and looking back in the opposite direction, one can perhaps get a slightly better glimpse into the Lower Fiddle Yard to the left:

 

 

Again, the two tracks rising above it are the entry roads to the Upper Fiddle Yard, but note that all trains are facing away from the camera, whereas in the Upper Yard they are facing towards us. Within the Lower Fiddle Yard the three roads nearest to the edge of the base board are terminating roads, and so trains using these must first reverse to clear the entry points and then run through the Yard to exit.

Trains enter the Lower Fiddle Yard to the immediate left of the camera position, in the Down direction, and then upon exit at the far end they travel all the way back along the two tracks to the right, which sit at a slightly lower level than that of the Main Yards, to join the Up running lines.

Like the Upper Fiddle Yard, the Lower one forms a reversing loop, and in the opposite direction to the Upper yard - if it didn't all trains would eventually end up facing the same way!  So ultimately the running roads that connect these two Yards form an overlaid figure of eight.

The Lower Fiddle Yard comprises 14 roads, one of these has been dedicated to Light Engines and can accommodate 6 locomotives, whilst the other 13 can take a single train; here are some trains lurking in the Lower Yard which is almost entirely "underground":

 

 

Aside from the main yard positions there are 7 other off-scene locations where a single train may be stored - for example 2 may be held in line on each of the two exit tracks from the lower yard before being released onto the running lines. So all in all I estimate that the total storage capability amounts to 86 complete trains (of varying length) and 15 light engines!

 

Readers may be please to know that I am not yet able to fill all of this space, but I am working hard at it!

 

If this hasn't bored you to tears, I shall attempt to explain in my next post, how these storage roads are controlled - there may then be a test!

 

Tony

 

 

 

Thanks Tony. I do enjoy seeing how folk have arranged their off-stage areas.

[KNP]

Very impressive, makes my set up look beyond simple.

 

Honest, I did try to concentrate but my eyes where drawn to a plastic box of trees!

 

Can't wait for part 2

 

One question - do you ever loose a train in the maze?

[Tony Teague]

2 hours ago, KNP said:

Very impressive, makes my set up look beyond simple.

 

Honest, I did try to concentrate but my eyes where drawn to a plastic box of trees!

 

Can't wait for part 2

 

One question - do you ever loose a train in the maze?

 

Ah yes, I must remember to water the trees if I don't get them planted soon!

 

Whilst you might describe your set up as simple by comparison, it is scenically exquisite - which I am some way from achieving!

 

"Lost" is an awfully precise word, but if you mean do I forget where I put something, a loco in particular perhaps, then yes! Even when running trains regularly it takes so long for a loco to exit from the Light Engine roads that you quite forget what went in there and have no idea what might come out next! - Actually that's quite exciting in a nurdy sort of way.

 

The other problem which I might touch on in terms of how it works is that if one is not paying attention it is quite easy to try to send a train into a fiddle yard road that is already full - the control desk shows whether or not there is space but doesn't prevent you selecting the wrong road. For reasons that I will explain, it is not possible to reverse in the Fiddle yard and so if / when this happens, the only recourse is to run all two / three trains that are in front of the errant train, right through and back round the circuit before gaining the correct road.

 

All good clean fun!

 

Tony

 

[Jules]

That is one great set of fiddle yards!

[jamespetts]

That is a seriously impressive layout.

[Jack P]

Fantastic Tony, The L1 in front of that Bulleid Pacific looks fantastic. What's the origin if you please?

 

Whenever you get a chance, I would love to see more of your rolling stock!

[Tony Teague]

On 13/04/2020 at 00:29, Jack P said:

Fantastic Tony, The L1 in front of that Bulleid Pacific looks fantastic. What's the origin if you please?

 

Whenever you get a chance, I would love to see more of your rolling stock!

 

Jack

The L1 is from a PDK kit (PDK14) and was built for me by Chris Phillips; my Night Ferry train which it double heads along with a BB or WC loco is very heavy and actually needs both locos to get it rolling - which is fairly prototypical!

 

 

I am planning at some point to work through my operating schedule and show the various trains but I am a bit stretched with multiple projects at the moment - finishing the Panel LED's, building an LSWR 6 wheeler for the breakdown train, and completing the churchyard around the recently completed St Giles' Church - but I'll get there.

 

Tony

Edited November 19, 2022 by Tony Teague

[thegreenhowards]

Tony,

 

Even though I’ve seen the yards in the flesh they still look quite remarkable in a photo. I think they’ve expanded since I saw them - the cassette system is new isn’t it?

 

How are you getting on with persuading locos to pull a decent length train up the gradient to the upper yard?

 

Andy

[Tony Teague]

Having tried to explain the locations of each of the four Fiddle Yards, here is an image that shows where they sit in relation to what I hope is recognisable scenery - this shot is only possible because part of the back scene is temporarily removed:

 

 

Ultimately the plan is to install some small CCTV cameras so that movements in the yard can be viewed even with the backscenes in place, but to say that this is some way off would be an understatement!

 

Next, here are the four tunnel mouths that hide the entrances / exits from each fiddle yard:

 

 

First. at the opposite end of Churminster (and to the left of the  image above), this is the entrance for the Down main line into the main Down Fiddle Yard, and also the exit for the Up main line from the main Up Fiddle Yard.

 

At the opposite end of these two main Fiddle Yards, the entry and exit tracks curve around to the right and remain hidden all the way across the back end of the railway room, before emerging at the end of the long straight section that leads down to Stowe Magna Station (from the right hand tunnel):

 

 

The left hand tunnel here is a short one leading onto  a viaduct, which is followed in turn by a further tunnel mouth that is both the entrance and exit from the Upper Fiddle Yard (remembering that it forms a reversing loop):

 

 

Above the viaduct can be seen the water tank which serves the local RAF base, and finally, beneath and to the left of the viaduct is the entrance and exit to the Lower Fiddle Yard; this is situated within the approx.20% of the scenic area that has not yet been 'scenic'd, nor even had the track ballasted:

 

 

So having got the geography clear, this is how it all works!

 

Each fiddle yard road is fitted with at least one infra-red detector / IRDOT; I have used those from Heathcote Electronics and there are now around 130 of various types of these on the layout; they are also used to trigger the colour light signals. For anyone who is unfamiliar, they sit under the baseboard with an IR emitter and detector passing up through the board and between the sleepers; this is is what they look like:

 

 

There are many ways of using IRDOTs, but the way they are configured here is as follows:

As each train reaches the front of the fiddle yard road it is detected, and the IRDOT switches off the track current, stopping the train. Where there are two trains (or multiple locos) in a single road, there is a second IRDOT (or further IRDOTs) at whatever point(s) the 2nd or subsequent train(s) is/are to stop and these are linked to the first or the IRDOT in front of them, so that when the first train clears, the next one will automatically move up, and so on. All of the Fiddle Yard roads are connected to a single power controller which is separate from those covering the running lines and it is usually set at a reasonably low voltage to avoid very sudden stops that might derail stock.

 

The IRDOT provides an indication to the Control Panel to show that the track is occupied, and fitted next to it is a black button which is used to over-ride the IRDOT and release the front train:

 

 

This section of the Panel controls the Down Main Fiddle Yard and is showing that all roads are occupied by two trains, excepting Road 10 which is empty. The red buttons at either end of the Road are used to set the entry and exit points, hopefully prior to the black button being used to release the front train. Road 16 is the terminating reversible road mentioned in my last post; the release button and exit point for this are controlled on the Down side of the Panel, for what I hope are obvious reasons!

 

The trackwork leading into and out of each fiddle yard road is complex and may contain up to five points and so each road is selected using a single button which fires all of the points required via a diode matrix; the image below shows the diode matrix that covers the entry points to the Lower Yard only - so there are 8 of these around the layout and I am grateful to Giles walburn who built them:

 

 

I find control systems very varied and they are clearly a matter of personal preference; I designed how this one would work and given the complexity of the layout it works reliably and well for me, but I am quite aware that it would not suit others!

 

Tony

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by Tony Teague

[Mick Bonwick]

Marvellous!

 

When it's explained step-by-step like what you has done, it all makes sense. I have seen many diagrams depicting diode matrices, but never what they look like when completed, until now.

 

When I'm stuck for what to do next I often look in this topic for inspiration, and it never fails to motivate me. If you can make decisions about what to do next, in the face of all that there is to do, then how can I justify just sitting here and procrastinating?

[Tony Teague]

48 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony,

 

Even though I’ve seen the yards in the flesh they still look quite remarkable in a photo. I think they’ve expanded since I saw them - the cassette system is new isn’t it?

 

How are you getting on with persuading locos to pull a decent length train up the gradient to the upper yard?

 

Andy

 

Andy

Thanks, and yes, the only addition is the cassette system - I was just trying to work out how I could get a bit more storage - you can never have enough!

(Actually I do have a lot of stock in drawers but what I really like is to be able to call up a train at the push of a button, if I humanly can).

 

There are several gradients on the layout but the only one that is significant is as you say, the entry to the top yard; as I mentioned above, the track voltage in the yards tends to be lower than elsewhere so as to avoid sudden stops and starts, but in this case my plan is to run the twin tracks on the gradient via  a separate power supply which will be set to a higher voltage; I haven't quite got to this although it is not a large task!

 

Aside from that I am working through the loco and train fleet and clearly there are some locos that would have difficulty in pulling the skin off a rice pudding, whilst others will move anything you throw at them; I have actually identified a couple of dreadful RTR locos that cannot even pull their own weight up the incline and so unless they respond to the addition of weight they will be banned from visiting the top yard (and will quite possibly spend the rest of their lives in a drawer). In one way it is a good thing that the storage roads in both the Upper and Lower yards are a bit shorter than in the Main yard, and so there are some restrictions on train length using the incline, the longest trains being confined to the main Up and Down yards.

 

Tony

[Tony Teague]

On 13/04/2020 at 10:11, Mick Bonwick said:

Marvellous!

 

When it's explained step-by-step like what you has done, it all makes sense. I have seen many diagrams depicting diode matrices, but never what they look like when completed, until now.

 

When I'm stuck for what to do next I often look in this topic for inspiration, and it never fails to motivate me. If you can make decisions about what to do next, in the face of all that there is to do, then how can I justify just sitting here and procrastinating?

 

Thanks Mick

 

I too had a morbid fear of diode matrices until Giles showed me how to design and build one - but I still let him do them all! There are also a couple of mini ones inside the panel, for example one controls the entrance and exit to a further, solitary, terminating / reversing storage road that is sitting behind the backscene beyond that viaduct:

 

 

What it does is to prevent you setting both the entry and exit roads at the same time! (Which I call useful). I can't think of another way of doing this without a diode matrix.

 

I am delighted that you find this thread motivational, but I assure you that there are plenty of times when I struggle to build up the enthusiasm to go out to the railway room and actually do something - notwithstanding there is plenty to do!

 

Tony

Edited November 19, 2022 by Tony Teague

[Mick Bonwick]

2 hours ago, Tony Teague said:

 

 

(Actually I do have a lot of stock in drawers but what I really like is to be able to call up a train at the push of a button, if I humanly can).

 

What you need is automatic drawers.

[Tony Teague]

34 minutes ago, Mick Bonwick said:

 

What you need is automatic drawers.

 

I once knew a girl who wore those...........nuff said!

[Mick Bonwick]

42 minutes ago, Tony Teague said:

 

I once knew a girl who wore those...........nuff said!

 

That's funny, she never mentioned you.