RMweb Gold Mick Bonwick Posted August 30, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 30, 2020 On 26/08/2020 at 19:18, Mick Bonwick said: I think that you should do an article about your signals, too. Just sayin'. I should have read page 4 before making that comment! That'll teach me. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Teague Posted August 30, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Mick Bonwick said: I should have read page 4 before making that comment! That'll teach me. No problem - p.4 is easy to miss - but just in case, it's between p.3 and p.5 Actually, I think I'll do something on the way that the 'interlocking' is set up. Tony 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Teague Posted August 30, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 30, 2020 (edited) I thought that in this post I might provide a little more insight into how the layout is controlled by talking about the signalling arrangements. Signalling on Stowe Magna & Churminster will ultimately comprise 3 aspect colour light signals on the 3rd-rail, 'electrified' main up and down lines, with semaphores taking over on each of the two track secondary lines that leave the main line at Stowe Magna and Churminster respectively. The colour lights work semi-automatically, in that unless over-ridden they will change to red when passed and revert eventually to green a short time after the train has cleared the subsequent signal, and so on; conversely, the semaphores will be both set and re-set manually and so their respective controls reflect these different approaches. I briefly covered the colour light signals as I started to install them on p.4 - three years ago, and then the semaphores for Churminster, which have been made by Steve Hewitt, were mentioned & shown on pp.28 - 30, however, Covid has so far prevented the installation of the latter onto the layout. Colour light installation has been complete for some time, and since then I have been steadily installing a form of 'electronic interlocking' to the areas covered by the colour lights, with some assistance from Giles Walburn; this post is an attempt to describe how the 'interlocking' relates to both the signals and the controls on the Panel. I would welcome any questions if I fail to explain things properly! To explain how things work I will use the example of Stowe Magna Junction as shown above, the line at the top being the Down Main, with the Up Main next below, and then forking off to the left is the double track, non-electrified branch. With all levers on the Control Panel 'off', the signals look like this: The Up & Down Main routes are set, whilst the Down branch signal shows red; as trains pass, the Down Main signal will cycle through red and back to amber, then green unless interupted by the Control Panel, where the display looks like this - the LED's indicate route settings NOT track occupancy: Pulling a single lever on the Panel [No.SM1] changes the point, trips the Down Main signal to red, allowing the Down Branch signal to show clear (providing of course that the next signal in front is clear), but it also isolates the Down Main and Up Main track supplies on the approach to the junction so that no SPADS are possible. Additionally, it trips the approach signal on the Up Main at the other end of the tunnel to red: The Up Main approach signal beyond the tunnel: The Panel now looks like this: Pulling a second lever [No.SM3] on the panel will set the point on the Up Main towards the Up Branch, in which case the track isolation on the Up Main is cleared, and the Up approach signal shows a feather: Returning to the station side of the tunnel, each of the two platform starter signals also carries a "calling on" signal for shunt moves and this can be activated by pulling lever No.SM2; the direction of the shunt and of the points being determind by the position of lever No.SM1 - here it is 'off': Whilst here it is pulled for the branch Down line: To show thus: This is actually the simplest main line junction on the layout (Churminster Junction is similar), and all of the 'interlocking' has been achieved using relays; these are either fired in parallel with the related point motors, or triggered using the passing contact switches within the DCC Concepts levers. The colour light signals, which are by Absolute Aspects, are additionally controlled via Heathcote Electronics IRDASC detectors fitted between the sleepers, and these enable the lights to sequence when not interupted by other control signals. At the current time three of the five signalling areas on the layout are fully 'interlocked', whilst the two remaining are not only the most complex from a track layout perspective, but will also be semaphore signalled. The circuits have been designed for these areas and will probably now be complete prior to signal installation. I hope this is of interest! Tony Edited November 20, 2022 by Tony Teague 5 6 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mick Bonwick Posted August 31, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 31, 2020 Splendid views of the Church. I had to read the text a few times before my brain caught up with my eyes. Fascinating account of what must have taken a fair bit of time to construct. I'm going to tackle signalling for Easton before too long, and will be expecting to utilise relays of some description, so can I ask, "What relays did you use?" In a previous life I made extensive use of DCCConcepts' Masterswitches, but they have not been available for years. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Teague Posted August 31, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 31, 2020 55 minutes ago, Mick Bonwick said: Splendid views of the Church. I had to read the text a few times before my brain caught up with my eyes. Fascinating account of what must have taken a fair bit of time to construct. I'm going to tackle signalling for Easton before too long, and will be expecting to utilise relays of some description, so can I ask, "What relays did you use?" In a previous life I made extensive use of DCCConcepts' Masterswitches, but they have not been available for years. Mick thanks - and yes I continue to be pleased with St Giles' church. I'm sure that cheaper options are available but I used Gaugemaster GM500 relays as they are comfortable working on the same voltage pulse as the Peco solenoid points (some relays are not); so far they have proved reliable. Tony 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted August 31, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 31, 2020 Tony, That is an impressive signalling set up you have. When I saw it working, I don’t think I appreciated all the interlocking. I’m trying to do something similar on our club layout at the moment using Heathcote IRDASC-4 and MAS sequencer boards and Peco PL-13 switches for junction control. It’s not going to be as fully prototypical as yours but I have to keep it simple and automatic for lots of different operators to master. It’s made my head hurt thinking it all through so I have the deepest respect for your set up. Andy 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted August 31, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted August 31, 2020 6 hours ago, Mick Bonwick said: In a previous life I made extensive use of DCCConcepts' Masterswitches, but they have not been available for years. Mick, I have quite a few that I no longer need since I changed from solenoids to Cobalts. PM if you're interested. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Teague Posted September 1, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 1, 2020 (edited) On 31/08/2020 at 18:51, thegreenhowards said: Tony, That is an impressive signalling set up you have. When I saw it working, I don’t think I appreciated all the interlocking. I’m trying to do something similar on our club layout at the moment using Heathcote IRDASC-4 and MAS sequencer boards and Peco PL-13 switches for junction control. It’s not going to be as fully prototypical as yours but I have to keep it simple and automatic for lots of different operators to master. It’s made my head hurt thinking it all through so I have the deepest respect for your set up. Andy Andy It may not have been installed when you last visited; I have been working through each of five signalling areas that I had identified, starting with the simplest and working towards the most complex. These are, in order of complexity, Churminster Junction, Stowe Magna Junction, Stoe Magna North - all three of which are implemented - and then Stowe Magna Nth. (X-London lines), Churminster Sth., which remain to be done. Both of the two remaining areas will be semaphore signalled and these are not yet installed. I found that the only way I could approach it was t consider each signal and / or point, one at a time, and establish all of the circuits that needed to be set or interupted by a change in it's condition. I also implemented it in the same way, by checking that the point or signal worked, then adding in the next required switch / relay and testing before adding another etc. Issues only then arise when you try to make a move that you hadn't thought of! I documented everything in the process - a very detailed signalling & interlocking spec that runs to 38 pages, and a wiring spec. that covers what is above and below each of the boards that make up the layout. Tony Edited November 20, 2022 by Tony Teague 3 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mick Bonwick Posted September 1, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 1, 2020 6 minutes ago, Tony Teague said: I documented everything in the process - a very detailed signalling & interlocking spec that runs to 38 pages, and a wiring spec. that covers what is above and below each of the boards that make up the layout. Do you have a separate building for all of your documentation? 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Teague Posted September 1, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 1, 2020 10 minutes ago, Mick Bonwick said: Do you have a separate building for all of your documentation? Oh yes, and a document librarian! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted September 1, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 1, 2020 3 hours ago, Tony Teague said: Andy It may not have been installed when you last visited; I have been working through each of five signalling areas that I had identified, starting with the simplest and working towards the most complex. These are, in order of complexity, Churminster Junction, Stowe Magna Junction, Stoe Magna North - all three of which are implemented - and then Stowe Magna Nth. (X-London lines), Churminster Sth., which remain to be done. Both of the two remaining areas will be semaphore signalled and these are not yet installed. I found that the only way I could approach it was t consider each signal and / or point, one at a time, and establish all of the circuits that needed to be set or interupted by a change in it's condition. I also implemented it in the same way, by checking that the point or signal worked, then adding in the next required switch / relay and testing before adding another etc. Issues only then arise when you try to make a move that you hadn't thought of! I documented everything in the process - a very detailed signalling & interlocking spec that runs to 38 pages, and a wiring spec. that covers what is above and below each of the boards that make up the layout. Tony That’s frighteningly organised! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Wright Posted September 1, 2020 Share Posted September 1, 2020 On 26/08/2020 at 18:52, Tony Teague said: The sudden realisation that I hadn't posted here for 8 weeks took me rather by surprise; I knew that I had completely lost my modelling mojo but it is amazing how time moves along. I happened to have two (socially distanced) visits to other railways arranged and so after looking at what Mick Bonwick has been doing on Easton, Isle of Portland, and re-visiting Tony Wright's Little Bytham, I felt sufficiently re-inspired today to enter the railway room and consider where to start! There have been a small number of deliveries during my period of absence - and perhaps the most important was the return of my 4-gang controller from Gaugemaster. Just before my loss of enthusiasm I had been having trouble with power to the Down Main, and after testing with a meter I was able to pinpoint a problem with the controller; I also had the presence of mind to remove it and send it off to Gaugemaster who still give a guarantee for life on such things. It was back repaired in less than two weeks - great service! - and so re-fitting it, followed by extenisve testing was the most important job of the day! A second delivery was the latest model from OO Works; this is an ex-LSWR class 0330 saddle tank, which is strictly outside of the era of my train-set, because they had all been scrapped by 1933, but it is an unusual prototype for the Southern and so Rule 1 came into play. This is how it looks straight out of the box and it clearly needs a crew plus some serious weathering! - especially as it would be right at the very end of (or beyond) it's working life! I might write a fuller review in due course if it would be of interest. The third delivery, and a very important one, was the return of my TPO train from Mick Bonwick who had very kindly undertaken to weather it for me, and it looks excellent with No.738 'King Pellinore' at it's head! I'll post some pictures of the separate vehicles making up the TPO in my next post, and if I can find them, I'll include some pre-weathered images. Tony Lovely stuff, Tony, I'm delighted you're back modelling again. Kind regards, Tony. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium DLT Posted September 1, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 1, 2020 8 hours ago, thegreenhowards said: That’s frighteningly organised! Just frightening.... 1 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scene but not Heard Posted September 9, 2020 Share Posted September 9, 2020 That weathered loco really looks the business! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Teague Posted September 15, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 15, 2020 (edited) It is already two weeks since my last post but I have not been idle. Last weekGiles Walburn and I really (almost) finished off the Control Desk, with some fault finding, snagging and cosmetic trimmings; I am now just painting the woodwork and will post some pictures as soon as the last coat has gone on. In the meantime another 'addition to stock' arrived yesterday in the form of the new Rails / Dapol ex-LB&SCR A1X terrier (on the right below): Comparison with the Hornby model (above left) which was announced later but delivered earlier is unavoidable, and at this stage I can't really see that there is a "winner" - each having strengths and weaknesses. I have yet to run No.2644, the Rails / Dapol model, whiilst No.2662, the Hornby model has had a crew and headcode disc added, but over the next week or so I will try to come up with some objective thoughts. What is certain, however, is that the four old terriers in the fleet will have to go! There is just no comparison with the new models (I did compare the Hornby model with its much older counterpart back on p.20). Tony Edited November 20, 2022 by Tony Teague 7 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Teague Posted September 17, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 17, 2020 (edited) Painting of the Control Desk is now complete - and I chose to do it in a dangerously bright shade of SR malachite! (you may need your Ray-Bans to view this!): Cosmetically the only outstanding work now is to add three pieces of the laminate that was used for the top, around the lever frame (which is why those areas are not painted). The two sides will be blank but the rear strip will be printed with to show the function of each lever; it took me a little while to work out how I wanted to do this and so this strip is not yet printed: Here it is, all but complete with the PC screen back in place & displaying a step in the operating sequence: And from above: When I first specified the Panel it was on the basis that everything must be operable by one person i.e. me!, however, as time has gone by I have realised that there are times when it would be useful to have the option for visitors to "drive", and so last week Giles and I added a further enhancement, in the shape of two plug-in / walk-about controllers which can be switched in to control the Up and Down Main Lines: In fact the walkabout controllers themselves are not new as we had already made provision for them to be switched in to control either Churminster Shed & Goods Yard, or Stowe Magna Shed & Goods Yard - and these options remain via sockets on either side of the panel: Tony Edited November 20, 2022 by Tony Teague 11 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold westerhamstation Posted September 17, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 17, 2020 Hi Tony, that is just amazing, and so well made. All the best Adrian, 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium thegreenhowards Posted September 17, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 17, 2020 That is a seriously impressive looking control panel! I bet the desk by the monitor doesn’t stay clear for long! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium AdeMoore Posted September 17, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 17, 2020 That really is impressive, what an amazing control desk you have designed and built. Top drawer that. A pipe dream for many such as myself. An impressive layout you have Tony.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Mick Bonwick Posted September 17, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 17, 2020 Absolutely wonderful! And so is your control panel. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Teague Posted September 17, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 17, 2020 3 hours ago, westerhamstation said: Hi Tony, that is just amazing, and so well made. All the best Adrian, 2 hours ago, thegreenhowards said: That is a seriously impressive looking control panel! I bet the desk by the monitor doesn’t stay clear for long! 2 hours ago, AdeMoore said: That really is impressive, what an amazing control desk you have designed and built. Top drawer that. A pipe dream for many such as myself. An impressive layout you have Tony.... 2 hours ago, Mick Bonwick said: Absolutely wonderful! And so is your control panel. Thanks for all of your kind comments! Andy - You are right, it usually also houses two beer mats for the coffee cups, but is also a place to put anything that won't fit on the work bench - which is behind the operator's chair. AdeMoore - I need to give credit to Giles for the original woodwork, plus developing the panel top layout, getting it printed and installing it - so quite a lot really! Surprised no-one mentioned the green....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chamby Posted September 17, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 17, 2020 4 hours ago, Tony Teague said: Engage the warp drive, Mr Scott - warp factor one! 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted September 17, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Tony Teague said: Surprised no-one mentioned the green....... It clashes with the blue levers. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Teague Posted September 18, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 18, 2020 7 hours ago, St Enodoc said: It clashes with the blue levers. Precisely! (but they don't do any other colours - in fact at the moment, you can't get them at all!). 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony Teague Posted September 18, 2020 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted September 18, 2020 (edited) Whilst watching the control panel paint dry, I retreated to my usual comfort zone and built a wagon; it's not quite finished in that it needs a roof, some method of coupling, and waft of Tester's dullcoat, but it is one of the most detailed 4mm wagon kits that I have come across: It's a SR Banana van to d.1478 from an old white metal kit by ABS models that I picked up on flea-bay a while back, and what took longest was the bits you can't see - the brake gear and under-parts which have a level of detial that is unusual on 4mm kits. I'd love to have a couple more of these but prices are silly for what is an obsolete kit and following the recent sad passing of Adrian Swain one is left wondering whether they will ever re-appear; I hope so! Tony Edited November 20, 2022 by Tony Teague 12 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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