Churminster & Stowe Magna, Southern Railway

[Tony Teague]

6 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

What a strange shade of green on the RTR model, Tony.

 

Is it supposed to be somewhere between olive and malachite? 

 

The numbers look to be the wrong proportion as well. 

 

When I attended the 'launch' of these models, at the NRM in October 2019, the gathering was informed that extensive research had been undertaken to get things right.

 

A pity, because, in all body dimensions, it looks to be perfect.

 

And, as Jack has noted, your kit-built ones bogie wheels are too small.

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Tony you are right - a very strange shade indeed, and whilst heavy weathering might hide it, the numbers look so wrong that I think they will have to come off.

All in all, rather disappointing.

Tony

[Nick C]

It looks closer to the very early Urie green - but for that I believe it should have an 'A' prefix number.

[Denbridge]

8 minutes ago, Nick C said:

It looks closer to the very early Urie green - but for that I believe it should have an 'A' prefix number.

closer, but still way off. It is nothing like any shade of Southern Green. when questioned about the shade of green on pre-production models, Rails made assurances the final production models would be correct. Such a shame they have ruined what promised to be a fine model. certainly for Olive Green models.

[thegreenhowards]

It almost looks like Doncaster green. You’ll have to bring it for a run on Gresley Jn!

[Arun Sharma]

On 20/05/2021 at 23:18, gz3xzf said:

Tony

Love the little electric locos, I'm now dreaming up a scenarios where I could use them!

As of today, DS75 is now available in both 4mm and 7mm scales from Radley Models.

[Tony Teague]

43 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

It almost looks like Doncaster green. You’ll have to bring it for a run on Gresley Jn!

 

Andy

Funnily enough I thought of apple green but I didn't want to offend the LNER afficionados!

The more I look at it the more I think it may need a complete re-spray.

Tony

[Mick Bonwick]

7 minutes ago, Tony Teague said:

 

Andy

Funnily enough I thought of apple green but I didn't want to offend the LNER afficionados!

The more I look at it the more I think it may need a complete re-spray.

Tony

 

Nah! Just weather it!

[Tony Teague]

1 minute ago, Mick Bonwick said:

 

Nah! Just weather it!

 

I suppose I am quite good at overdoing it!

- Which maybe just what is required......
 

[pete_mcfarlane]

On 24/06/2021 at 21:35, Arun Sharma said:

As of today, DS75 is now available in both 4mm and 7mm scales from Radley Models.

I orders a 4mm one on Thursday nights and it turned up this morning.  Looking forward to building it.

[Tony Teague]

A mini-update on two fronts:

 

1st to report a further addition to stock - this one being the second Rails / Dapol Wainwright class D loco, this time No.1734 in wartime black with sunshine lettering - and the first thing to say is that the chosen shade of black is so much better than their chosen shade of olive green:

 

 

However, just as the numbers on No.1730 are oddly shaped, so too, I feel are those on No.1734 - well perhaps over-size rather than wrongly shaped.

 

 

The yellow in the 'sunshine' lettering also seems to predominate over the green lining / shadow, as a comparison with a recent Hornby S15 illustrates:

 

 

My picture is not as blurred as it may appear - the lettering on No.1734 is not as crisp as it might be and the yellow is a shade darker than on the Hornby tender. Now obviously I am not able to remember which of these shades is accurate - if either is, but the Hornby sunshine lettering is a closer match to that produced by both HMRS & Fox in their transfers. Nevertheless, after weathering I doubt one will be able to tell the difference.

 

 

An oddity shared by both Nos.1730 & 1734 is that on each of the two models the rear left hand buffer on the tender had dropped off in transit; why it is just this single buffer is not known! Overall I feel that this black model better displays the undoubted quality of the tooling for this model.

 

My 2nd update relates to the long awaited semaphore signals, and I am pleased to report that @Steve Hewitt visited for a couple of days last week and delivered the exquisite signals that he has built for both Stowe Magna & Churminster. During his visit we managed to install 4 signal posts, carrying 5 separate arms, plus one ground signal and all were successfully tested; what we didn't have time to do was to complete all of the related wiring, but here is an initial image that shows where we got to:

 

 

No - I know you can't see any signals and you'll just have to wait!

 

This is a very busy drop-in, or lift-out board, and what you can see here are three GF servo controllers for the signals at the bottom, 5 signal servos (mounted on 4 wooden 'brackets'), 4 Peco solenoid point motors, 2 Gaugemaster relays, 2 Heathcote servo controllers and their related uncoupler servos, two large tag strips, and hanging down in the centre, a single LED in its custom mounting (which lights the ground signal)! - Oh, and some wires.

 

I will post some more informative images once wiring and re-istallation of this board is complete.

 

Tony

Edited November 23, 2022 by Tony Teague

[Graham_Muz]

Hi Tony, 

 

Yes as per my review here https://southern-railway.com/2021/07/03/wainwright-elegance-secr-d-class-4-4-0-from-rails-of-sheffield-Dapol-in-00-arrives/ the sunshine lettering should be a scale 9" ie 3mm however on the model it is 3.7mm high and as you have spotted the thickness of the green shading is to heavy and further emphasises the height error.  I will be replacing the number and lettering at some stage (and correcting the chimney) 
It appears to be the same rear  buffer that falls of everyone's.

[Tony Teague]

1 hour ago, Graham_Muz said:

Hi Tony, 

 

Yes as per my review here https://southern-railway.com/2021/07/03/wainwright-elegance-secr-d-class-4-4-0-from-rails-of-sheffield-Dapol-in-00-arrives/ the sunshine lettering should be a scale 9" ie 3mm however on the model it is 3.7mm high and as you have spotted the thickness of the green shading is to heavy and further emphasises the height error.  I will be replacing the number and lettering at some stage (and correcting the chimney) 
It appears to be the same rear  buffer that falls of everyone's.

 

Hi Graham

Thanks - I hadn't seen your review so I am relieved that it wasn't my eyes deceiving me!

(I'll read it now!).

I think I'll replace the numbers / lettering on both locos before weathering.

It sounds like Dapol need to have a strong word with their 'rear left buffer fixing associate' - and actually the brake gear under the tender was also falling off my black example.

Tony

[Denbridge]

1 hour ago, Tony Teague said:

 

Hi Graham

Thanks - I hadn't seen your review so I am relieved that it wasn't my eyes deceiving me!

(I'll read it now!).

I think I'll replace the numbers / lettering on both locos before weathering.

It sounds like Dapol need to have a strong word with their 'rear left buffer fixing associate' - and actually the brake gear under the tender was also falling off my black example.

Tony

To be honest, they need to have stronger words with whoever approved the awful rendition of SR Olive green. presumably the same person who got the lining and lettering so wrong. They've managed to completely ruin what could have been superb models. 

[Tony Teague]

6 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

To be honest, they need to have stronger words with whoever approved the awful rendition of SR Olive green. presumably the same person who got the lining and lettering so wrong. They've managed to completely ruin what could have been superb models. 

 

Tend to agree!

[chris45lsw]

My 31574 (and 31731) arrived today.  31731 seemed to be in one piece other than a detached coupling hook but, yes, the same tender buffer of 31574 was loose in the packing.  And the tender brake gear fell off when I lifted the tender out of the packing.  I re-attached the buffer and when I repacked the loco it promptly came off again!  It seems the packing exerts too much pressure on this (only?) buffer. 

 

And, of course, the right hand side has the elementary error of the crest facing back when it should face forward.  I'm reluctant to touch the finish on a £200 model but I suppose I'll have to change it in due course.  In the meantime I'll make sure I keep the left hand side facing me.

 

Chris KT

[Tony Teague]

8 hours ago, chris45lsw said:

My 31574 (and 31731) arrived today.  31731 seemed to be in one piece other than a detached coupling hook but, yes, the same tender buffer of 31574 was loose in the packing.  And the tender brake gear fell off when I lifted the tender out of the packing.  I re-attached the buffer and when I repacked the loco it promptly came off again!  It seems the packing exerts too much pressure on this (only?) buffer. 

 

And, of course, the right hand side has the elementary error of the crest facing back when it should face forward.  I'm reluctant to touch the finish on a £200 model but I suppose I'll have to change it in due course.  In the meantime I'll make sure I keep the left hand side facing me.

 

Chris KT

 

It's hard to know how the errors on these models can have missed out on QC!

[Arun Sharma]

On 08/07/2021 at 07:20, Tony Teague said:

 

It's hard to know how the errors on these models can have missed out on QC!

Quality Control only matters to the manufacturer if the purchaser has the possibility of applying some form of sanction to the manufacturer. On the basis that the manufacturer:

is a state-sponsored supplier [many of these 'private' companies are part of some PLA generals pension plan]

is the only supplier

is 6000 miles away

has received full payment in advance of shipping goods

will probably be manufacturing 3-pin plugs this time next week 

will have a different labour force this time next week

 

There isn't anything that the purchaser can do about it and the purchaser knows it.

Why is anyone surprised?

[Tony Teague]

39 minutes ago, Arun Sharma said:

Quality Control only matters to the manufacturer if the purchaser has the possibility of applying some form of sanction to the manufacturer. On the basis that the manufacturer:

is a state-sponsored supplier [many of these 'private' companies are part of some PLA generals pension plan]

is the only supplier

is 6000 miles away

has received full payment in advance of shipping goods

will probably be manufacturing 3-pin plugs this time next week 

will have a different labour force this time next week

 

There isn't anything that the purchaser can do about it and the purchaser knows it.

Why is anyone surprised?

 

These sound like credible reasons for UK suppliers NOT to outsource their production to far-away corporations over which they have little or no control and NIl sanctions.

Perhaps it is time for UK suppliers to consider repatriating their production and for us all to accept that by paying a little more we might ultimately get better products.

(But that's quite a stretch!).

 

Having said all of that, I received my two long awaited Kernow SR, ex-LSWR 10T Road Vans yesterday and they look pretty impressive to me! They're even the right colour!

Perhaps we have Graham Muz to thank for that?

Tony

[Denbridge]

Just now, Tony Teague said:

 

These sound like credible reasons for UK suppliers NOT to outsource their production to far-away corporations over which they have little or no control and NIl sanctions.

Perhaps it is time for UK suppliers to consider repatriating their production and for us all to accept that by paying a little more we might ultimately get better products.

(But that's quite a stretch!).

 

Having said all of that, I received my two long awaited Kernow SR, ex-LSWR 10T Road Vans yesterday and they look pretty impressive to me! They're even the right colour!

Perhaps we have Graham Muz to thank for that?

Tony

to return production to the UK would result in prices doubling at the very least, resulting in no RTR at all. the costs of day to day production would be horrendous and that doesnt take into account the initial costs of finding and equipping premises which would run into the tens of millions. It just isn't feasible.

[Graham_Muz]

1 hour ago, Tony Teague said:

 

These sound like credible reasons for UK suppliers NOT to outsource their production to far-away corporations over which they have little or no control and NIl sanctions.

Perhaps it is time for UK suppliers to consider repatriating their production and for us all to accept that by paying a little more we might ultimately get better products.

(But that's quite a stretch!).

 

Having said all of that, I received my two long awaited Kernow SR, ex-LSWR 10T Road Vans yesterday and they look pretty impressive to me! They're even the right colour!

Perhaps we have Graham Muz to thank for that?

Tony

Costs would rise substantially with manufacturing in the UK ( even taking current production and shipping costs rising).
it is nonsense that commissioners do not have control over the quality etc. 
I would also add that commissioners are totally responsible for the detail specification, approval of CADs etc. Whilst some errors might occur during tooling process the purpose of the EP is to spot any such issues between cad and tooling (not as some think to see if the cad was right in the first place) 
The correct livery, colours and fonts etc. Is also totally the responsibility of the commissioners.  
The majority of factories being used are specialists in model railways and dealing with multiple clients and those clients will have multiple different models being produced and using more than one factory so there is plenty of potential recourse if needed. 
 

I hope that gives a little insight and clarity. 
 

Edited July 18, 2021 by Graham_Muz

[Tony Teague]

1 hour ago, Denbridge said:

to return production to the UK would result in prices doubling at the very least, resulting in no RTR at all. the costs of day to day production would be horrendous and that doesnt take into account the initial costs of finding and equipping premises which would run into the tens of millions. It just isn't feasible.

 

Quite probably true, but what a poor reflection upon the competitiveness of our manufacturing capability, and of our total reliance on imports.

[Denbridge]

1 minute ago, Tony Teague said:

 

Quite probably true, but what a poor reflection upon the competitiveness of our manufacturing capability, and of our total reliance on imports.

i've always thought that the likes of Hornby, Bachmann, etc, etc, should combine the manufacture in China with a quality control dept here in the UK, where models are inspected & tested before being dispatched to the retailers. I know that is how firms like Roco, deal with their models. When I was modelling HO continental i rarely received faulty models. Though in mainland Europe they fully expect to pay more for a quality product, wheras there seems to be an element of UK models being built down to a price.

[Arun Sharma]

1 hour ago, Denbridge said:

i've always thought that the likes of Hornby, Bachmann, etc, etc, should combine the manufacture in China with a quality control dept here in the UK, where models are inspected & tested before being dispatched to the retailers. 

Companies like Heljan have tried that with their O gauge models but that hasn't helped in the slightest when dealing with an epidemic of defective split Delrin gears in their earlier locos. 

Pre-production samples seen by the commissioners might not always match what is actually  produced as part of the main production batch and there isn't much you can do about it other than perhaps  to use a different supplier next time as Graham_Muz says. 

 

[Dragonboy]

On 18/07/2021 at 15:28, Tony Teague said:

 

These sound like credible reasons for UK suppliers NOT to outsource their production to far-away corporations over which they have little or no control and NIl sanctions.

Perhaps it is time for UK suppliers to consider repatriating their production and for us all to accept that by paying a little more we might ultimately get better products.

(But that's quite a stretch!).

 

Having said all of that, I received my two long awaited Kernow SR, ex-LSWR 10T Road Vans yesterday and they look pretty impressive to me! They're even the right colour!

Perhaps we have Graham Muz to thank for that?

Tony

 

On 18/07/2021 at 15:31, Denbridge said:

to return production to the UK would result in prices doubling at the very least, resulting in no RTR at all. the costs of day to day production would be horrendous and that doesnt take into account the initial costs of finding and equipping premises which would run into the tens of millions. It just isn't feasible.

Dapol seem to manage unless I’m mistaken

[Graham_Muz]

1 hour ago, Dragonboy said:

 

Dapol seem to manage unless I’m mistaken

 

Dapol do very limited production in the UK of very basic injection moulded 00 open wagons and vans along with simple livery application only.

All their locomotives, coaches and more complex wagons are made in China.