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The J is a lovely loco, and the Chivers kit is very good. My model of 596 isn't quite as clean as yours:

 

As for 0-6-4Ts, the J was the last example in BR service. There's a nice photo of the very last one (596 again), which Ashford cleaned up specifically for photography before scrapping. The very last 0-6-4T in the UK was on Northern Ireland Railways, and was withdrawn in 1969.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SLNCR_Lough_class

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1 hour ago, Arun Sharma said:

As a committed [if not actually sectioned under the Mental Health Act] fan of matters LT, the idea of producing a 7mm version of the Met Rly's 0-6-4T rather appeals. hence my interest in what other railways used that wheel arrangement. Once I have finished Tony's Marsh C3, I might have a go at a J tank in 00/EM.

 

Phew, I'm glad it hasn't elbowed the C3 out of the way! :D

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46 minutes ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

The J is a lovely loco, and the Chivers kit is very good. My model of 596 isn't quite as clean as yours:

As for 0-6-4Ts, the J was the last example in BR service. There's a nice photo of the very last one (596 again), which Ashford cleaned up specifically for photography before scrapping. The very last 0-6-4T in the UK was on Northern Ireland Railways, and was withdrawn in 1969.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SLNCR_Lough_class

 

Thanks Pete; I wasn't aware of that.

I like your rather more work-weary example and will take a good look at your thread.

Tony

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Whilst we are mentioning the Chivers Finelines kit for the J class, I had a look at what else I had in the fleet from Chivers, and it seems the only other loco is this ex-LBSCR D3:

 

SJPP417000102180417.jpg.a9b7a2524528588fb2154240dc16faa7.jpg

 

I also have an unmade D3 kit in stock because I want to use the chassis as the basis for a D3X in due course - whenever I can get around to it!

 

I also have a number of Chivers wagons in the fleet, and certainly his plastic kits have always been superb to put together; these LNER Pigeon brake vans are examples:

 

SJPP713002202190713.jpg.522ad0d349fde3b8c04aa998e6363f03.jpg

 

My understaning is that Roger Chivers split the business between his two sons in 2010 to form 'Slimrails' (who had the plastic kits) and 'Five79' who had the etched brass and white metal, however, both now seem to be defunct. There was an indication on one site that the Slimrails stuff had gone to Parkside Dundas (the OO part of which has since gone to Peco), however, I don't know if that is right, nevertheless it would be a great shame if these fine products disappeared into the black hole of "kits that once were"!

 

Perhaps others have further information?

 

Tony

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A recent PM query about my "missing locos" list prompted me to realise that I hadn't mentioned it on here for about 10 months - which may be a good indicator of the apparent lack of progress!

 

For anyone following the thread only recently, this is my list of loco "wants" if I am ever to achieve my goal of having a model of at least one of each and every loco class that the Southern Railway had on its books as at Nationalisation. When I first posted about this goal I thought that my list was pretty short, but RMWebbers kindly added further sub-classes so that as fast as I could tick them off, new entries got added! :sclerosis:

 

Nevertheless, the list has been pretty stable for a while now, so here is the current state of play for those that are still "missing" (the number in brackets shows how many there were in the class as at 1948):

 

LB&SCR Billinton E5X    (4) - build STILL in hand; this is disgraceful as I have had the 3D printed body and SEF E5 chassis part built for 18 months! I shall move it to the top of my to do list immediately!!

LB&SCR Marsh C3       (8) - drawings completed for etched parts; 3d design & print in hand for boiler, firebox etc which will be produced as whitemetal castings to form a 'kit of parts'; builder identified

LB&SCR Marsh D3X      (1) - potential solution through an intended 3D printed body, chassis anticipated from a Chivers D3 kit, in stock

LB&SCR Billinton B4X   (12) - potential solution through a 3D printed body under exploration

SECR Wainwright F1      (9) - SER Kits have design and drawings in hand for a 7mm kit which they are prepared to scale down to produce 4mm etches

SECR Wainwright B1    (16) - Jidenco kit in hand but need to find a builder - this kit is way beyond me! Alternate solution to await production of SER Kits etches

LSWR Drummond S11   (10) - further set of L12 body parts in hand; sourcing correct wheels for adapted SE Finecast T9 chassis (think T9 with large boiler & smaller wheels)

LSWR Drummond C14  (3) - discounted a CSP / Agenoria kit announced years ago but never delivered; alternate supplier has 1st etches awaiting test build

SR Maunsell I1X             (18) - 3D printed body in design (I need to chase progress on this!) + Alan Gibson milled chassis frames to hand
KESR 0-8-0T Hecate      (1) - supplier identified who has 1st etches awaiting test build
Soton Dock Co. 0458     (1) - possible solution to modify CSP Agenoria kit CSP 04 identified, kit in hand / potential builder identified

DS75                               (1) - solution identified involving newly designed & drawn etches / castings

 

In summary, a solution has been identified for every item, however, some of them are a lot more solid and realisable than others, so I continue to scout for alternatives; at present, I rank these as pretty safe, will complete in reasonable time:

  • E5X, C3, S11, C14, Hecate :danced:

Some issues remain to be solved:

  • D3X, 0458, B1 :scratchhead:

Fairly vague and requiring a bit of firming up:

  • B4X, F1, I1X, DS75 :fie:

Overall, I am pretty happy with things; I never thought this was an easy goal!

 

Tony

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I built this B4x about 15 years ago and I still have a spare set of the etches for it.925896799_05-01B4xls.JPG.fbf11dda190d2397df228db9e31607e5.JPG

Ian Rathbone painted it, there should be some photos on his website. No problem building you another one....

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1 hour ago, Michael Edge said:

I built this B4x about 15 years ago and I still have a spare set of the etches for it.925896799_05-01B4xls.JPG.fbf11dda190d2397df228db9e31607e5.JPG

Ian Rathbone painted it, there should be some photos on his website. No problem building you another one....

 

Mike

 

It would be rude to refuse!

Yes please.

(well that improves the rating of the B4X on my list!).

 

Tony

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Well despite lockdown, things sometimes move faster on RMWeb than one can imagine!

 

Soon after my last posting, the lady from Royal Mail delivered a couple of parcels - the first of which from Dave Ellis at SEF contained a couple of kits for tenders that I am missing, whilst the second came from @DLT, and those of you have been following his thread will know what it contained - H15 'chonker' No. 483:

 

395011664_SJP2020-06-2717-24-59(BRadius8Smoothing4)02200627.jpg.d52786041a3c39b308e561d10311d408.jpg

 

My inital pictures don't really do justice to this excellent model, see here alongside narrower-boilered sister loco No.522 (a "mini-chonker" or "chonkette" perhaps?).

Once I have crewed, coaled and headcoded the loco I will put up some further image with her at the head of a train - but in the meantime a big thank you to DLT!

 

2056896867_SJP2020-06-2717-31-47(BRadius8Smoothing4)02200627.jpg.dbe482d2cc137ecb74499428c843e14d.jpg

 

(Incidentally, there is no problem with the number on the side of No.522's tender - it is a focus-stacking issue down to me!)

 

The real sad thing is that the arrival of No.483 did noting for my "missing loco" list :fie:, but that is perhaps because I have not included on it every possible boiler or other variation - if I did, then for some classes I would need to have a model of every single loco!

 

Tony

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My post yesterday was not very informative - my apologies!

 

The two locos shown are first, the new addition to stock No.483 in wartime black livery, built by Dave Taylor from a PDK kit to represent a large boilered, LSWR built, H15 with Urie 5,200gallon bogie tender; it has snifting valves and is correct in this condition for the period November 1943 to January 1947.

 

The second loco is SR built No.522 in Maunsell olive and has been in the fleet for almost 15 years; it has a 5,000gallon bogie tender inherited from an S15 in 1933, and was built by Chris Phillips from a DJH kit and is correct in this condition from 1933 until June 1941 - so the bottom line is that these two would not have been seen alongside each other without one of them having a repaint!

(dates according to 'The Book of the H15 and S15 4-6-0's" - Swift - Irwell press).

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45 minutes ago, Tony Teague said:

My post yesterday was not very informative - my apologies!

 

The two locos shown are first, the new addition to stock No.483 in wartime black livery, built by Dave Taylor from a PDK kit to represent a large boilered, LSWR built, H15 with Urie 5,200gallon bogie tender; it has snifting valves and is correct in this condition for the period November 1943 to January 1947.

 

The second loco is SR built No.522 in Maunsell olive and has been in the fleet for almost 15 years; it has a 5,000gallon bogie tender inherited from an S15 in 1933, and was built by Chris Phillips from a DJH kit and is correct in this condition from 1933 until June 1941 - so the bottom line is that these two would not have been seen alongside each other without one of them having a repaint!

(dates according to 'The Book of the H15 and S15 4-6-0's" - Swift - Irwell press).

Tony,

 

I'm slightly confused given my sketchy knowledge of the fineries of SR loco classifications. Is there any less difference between 522&483 than between (for example) an L12/T9/S11? If not then I think you’re ‘cheating’ and need to expand your list immediately!

 

Andy

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2 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony,

 

I'm slightly confused given my sketchy knowledge of the fineries of SR loco classifications. Is there any less difference between 522&483 than between (for example) an L12/T9/S11? If not then I think you’re ‘cheating’ and need to expand your list immediately!

 

Andy

 

Cheat, wot me! No guv.:unsure:

 

Well perhaps the key for me is that the SR gave different class numbers to T9 / L12 / S11 but not to the variations within class H15 - and that's where I started, one for each class in service at nationalisation; the Drummind 4-4-0's do however also have different cab width's, wheel sizes, tenders and so on.

 

However, my purpose in acquiring a large-boilerd H15 is that really it is quite a significant difference, and certainly there is at least as much of a difference here as there is between say and E4 and an E4X.

 

In the end, there are almost as many variations within certain SR classes as there are loco's, so short of modelling every loco the SR had at nationalisation, as opposed to one of every class, there is no way that one could get complete coverage - and no, I am not going there! :crazy_mini:

 

Tony

 

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39 minutes ago, Tony Teague said:

 

and no, I am not going there! :crazy_mini:

 

Tony

 

Go on. You know you want to - What an excuse for a locoholic!
 

 

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13 minutes ago, thegreenhowards said:

Go on. You know you want to - What an excuse for a locoholic!
 

 

 

I don't deny that I'd love to, but unfortunately space, money and time are all in limited supply!

(Plus I already have more locos in stock drawers than on the layout)

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4 minutes ago, Tony Teague said:

 

I don't deny that I'd love to, but unfortunately space, money and time are all in limited supply!

(Plus I already have more locos in stock drawers than on the layout)

 

Triple head, and bank every train, that'll use 'em up!

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38 minutes ago, Mick Bonwick said:

 

No, it won't!

Does that mean you've seen what's in Tony's drawers, Mick?

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5 hours ago, Tony Teague said:

 

Cheat, wot me! No guv.:unsure:

 

Well perhaps the key for me is that the SR gave different class numbers to T9 / L12 / S11 but not to the variations within class H15 - and that's where I started, one for each class in service at nationalisation; the Drummind 4-4-0's do however also have different cab width's, wheel sizes, tenders and so on.

 

However, my purpose in acquiring a large-boilerd H15 is that really it is quite a significant difference, and certainly there is at least as much of a difference here as there is between say and E4 and an E4X.

 

In the end, there are almost as many variations within certain SR classes as there are loco's, so short of modelling every loco the SR had at nationalisation, as opposed to one of every class, there is no way that one could get complete coverage - and no, I am not going there! :crazy_mini:

 

Tony

 

Have you got 335? That one was quite different to all the others - and had the most ludicrously mismatched tender I've ever seen.

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2 hours ago, teaky said:

Does that mean you've seen what's in Tony's drawers, Mick?

 

Now that would be telling, wouldn't it?

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12 minutes ago, Michael Edge said:

Have you got 335? That one was quite different to all the others - and had the most ludicrously mismatched tender I've ever seen.

 

No I haven't - I have only got the two H15's shown - but looking at pictures of No.335 I agree it does look really strange with it's over-height prototype Drummond water cart!

This is a classic illustration as to why modelling every possible variation would be a massive task.

A further aspect is just how many SR loco types are still unavailable RTR, and of those there are still a good proportion for which no kit is available.

Tony

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11 minutes ago, Mick Bonwick said:

 

Now that would be telling, wouldn't it?

 

...and might even involve a breach of the Official Secrets Act....shhh!:blind:

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Despite all of the ribaldry I thought I would post a further picture of No.483.

 

Having recently posted an SECR loco with what few SECR wagons I have, I thought that No.483 might look good alongside some LSWR wagons (yes, I know, she was an SR built version, but from good LSWR stock!):

 

23055682_SJP2020-06-2817-46-25(BRadius8Smoothing4)02200628.jpg.64d808cbde97d0d0d386f3b69f4261a1.jpg

 

Note that Stowe Magna goods yard appears to be suffering from some subsidence - old mine workings perhaps?

 

I do have some further ex-LSWR wagons somewhere but they will take a bit of locating; the brakevan in this case is a recently completed LSWR 10T goods brake van, or road van, from a Smallbrook Studios kit:

 

768355863_SJP2020-06-2817-47-59(BRadius8Smoothing4)02200628.jpg.3ff8698f10904872165548cd74916c95.jpg

 

I have to say that this was not a particularly easy build & that I am not really a fan of this type of resin kit (having built a couple of vans before); the parts reuire a lot of fettling, despite the resin being quite brittle, and it is not easy to get things square. The running / step boards were especially fiddly and (as can be seen) I didn't manage to get all of the supports perfectly aligned. Nevertheless, it is an interesting protoype.

Tony

 

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13 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Tony,

 

I'm slightly confused given my sketchy knowledge of the fineries of SR loco classifications. Is there any less difference between 522&483 than between (for example) an L12/T9/S11? If not then I think you’re ‘cheating’ and need to expand your list immediately!

 

Andy

 

The H15s were quite a varied bunch!  First you had the 10 built in 1914 (482-491) with parallel boilers, massive smokeboxes, and stepped running plates.  As there was no spare boiler, 491 was later fitted with a King Arthur type taper boiler, to create a spare boiler to swap around the others.

335 (1914) was a one-off, a rebuild of Drmmonds single E14 design.  It was outwardly similar to the first batch, but had a slightly longer coupled wheelbase, and that massive Drummond tender.

330-334 (1924) were "Rebuilds" of Drummonds F13 class.  They had the massive parallel boiler/smokebox, but straight running plate. (and Drummond tenders?)

473-478, & 521-524 (1924) were new-builds, with taper boiler and straight running plates.  Appearance wise, they could be confused with S15/N15s.

 

I think that covers it!

Cheers, Dave,

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Sorry, couldn't resist my H15 antenna picked up this thread. DLT knows his H15's very well. A few pictures of mine, 389 was built by PDK, 333 body by PDK and 491 chassis by PDK. The rest by me from kits and where needed, scratch built - 335 is my favourite. 335 and 33o series all had extended main/rear wheelbase (6")  to accomodate the longer shallow Drummond firebox.

 

724036603_IMG_4140copy(2).jpg.7f6450d1a4339f8976ebfdbe6dedc3ce.jpg

 

1090970040_IMG_4366(2).JPG.faeae64380c0328048703b84bbb3a372.JPG

 

602946101_IMG_4374(3).JPG.63a85ed5533156b11c4b239eabe531d4.JPG

 

390825560_IMG_4945(2).JPG.1923a4cd444e8624c3e59513c315a006.JPG

 

Sorry about the crap snaps.

 

Kind regards,

 

Richard B

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, 30368 said:

Sorry, couldn't resist my H15 antenna picked up this thread. DLT knows his H15's very well. A few pictures of mine, 389 was built by PDK, 333 body by PDK and 491 chassis by PDK. The rest by me from kits and where needed, scratch built - 335 is my favourite. 335 and 33o series all had extended main/rear wheelbase (6")  to accomodate the longer shallow Drummond firebox.

 

724036603_IMG_4140copy(2).jpg.7f6450d1a4339f8976ebfdbe6dedc3ce.jpg

 

1090970040_IMG_4366(2).JPG.faeae64380c0328048703b84bbb3a372.JPG

 

Richard

 

No need to apologise - a great collection of H15's illustrating the differences perfectly!

 

Tony

 

Edited by Tony Teague
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Posted (edited)

Thanks Richard, quite a fleet!

It took me a while to get my head around the variations, especially that some of the later locos had lower numbers as they were rebuilds.

I was helped greatly by several RMweb-ers, especially Guest Belgian, who goes into far more detail on this thread: Urie H15 Chonker

Cheers, Dave.

Edited by DLT
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