BRM Poll - How long do you expect to wait for a model?

[Andy Y]

We would like to include your input on a poll within BRM asking how long you expect to wait for a newly announced model to reach the market.

 

We may also include some comments or observations from any responses within the topic as well as any poll figures.

[D9020 Nimbus]

I find it impossible to answer this question—as it depends on who is producing the model. If it I'd Hornby, I would expect to wait a year or less; if Bachmann, anything from a few months to five years.

 

I THINK that a model SHOULD arrive within a year of being announced as once used to be common practice.

[Nelson Jackson]

I don't mind waiting at all, but I would much rather prefer it if manufactures announce new locos when they are ready to go onto the market. Instead of announcing what they are "hoping" to produce.

[russ p]

I voted how long I think it should take as opposed to how long I think it will actually take

[grahame]

I guess to a large extent it depends on the terms of the announcement. If it is about a proposal to produce a new model from scratch with all the research, design and production yet to be started, then it might be quite reasonable to wait a while but if it is news of a new model being put in to next year's catalogue/brochure with development work having been undertaken in secret and was basically only waiting on production then perhaps a few months might be expected.

 

G.

[Taigatrommel]

I'm not sure what the meaning of the question is - do you mean how long do I expect it to take from experience, or how long I expect to wait ideally?

[Guest Midland Mole]

In an ideal world I would like to wait no more than a year to a year and a half, but if I have to wait longer it generally does not bother me much. As a life long video gamer, I am used to waiting about that length of time for a game to go from announcement to release. I personally think companies should not announce models until they are a good way through development.

 

I have waited this long for the Bachmann Stanier Mogul, I can wait a bit more.....

- Alex

[Clive Mortimore]

Does it matter? If you are a patient person, it takes as long as it takes. If you are not, then should you have wanted a particular model you would have made it, scratch or kit, or paid someone to make it for you. You would have done this well before it was announced. 

[Trainshed Terry]

That is a good question.

It's like asking someone which would they prefer to have in the garden "21 flea infested rats" or one "Vulpes vulpes"  

I know which I would have.

 

Terry

[coachmann]

Manufacturers are their own worst enemy when they give long lead times and don't cash in on any excitement created by news of their forthcoming product. Cooling off periods are fatal. 

[Beacon]

I would expect an established company like Hornby or Bachmann to be able to announce new models and release them within a year. I don't mind if this is via an annual announcement or a drip-feed approach but waiting more than a year just seems unhelpful. I think it is fair to extend this expectation for projects involving buyers in the design process through forums etc. or if a crowdfunding approach is used to raise development funds and up to 2 years would seem reasonable.

[Ian J.]

In the case of a conventional manufacturer production, I'd ideally like to be waiting no more than a year. For smaller commissioned items anything up to three years is OK for me, but longer than that is a bit much.

[Downer]

Sorry but, as some have already said, until you say which it is you want to know - a) how long we think we'll have to wait, or b) how long we think we should have to wait - the poll is meaningless. 

[Andy Y]

It's not meaningless; it asks you how long you expect to wait - not how quickly you would like it, nor does it ask how long you think it may actually take. 

[Brinkly]

I think it is a good idea, even if it just gives the manufacturers an idea of what most people will put up with!

 

Although, if a model is delayed, does it really matter? No one died from having to wait a bit longer than expected.

 

Kind regards,

 

Nick.

[bike2steam]

As long as it takes to get it right.  How long did it take Bachmann to get the initial N class production right, after two failed attempts to get the chassis into the restricted space in a narrow firebox. It all depends on design/adaption/production problems. 

[Kelly]

It should perhaps be more a case of how long is an acceptable wait. more than 2 years feels a bit taking the whatsit to me, but at the same time I know that several factors can affect release slippage and so on.

[edcayton]

In the light of recent experience we are getting very close to five plus years being the norm now.

 

Ed

[Andy Y]

It isn't the 'norm', what percentage of models can you verify which have taken more than the five years?

[tractionman]

It isn't the 'norm', what percentage of models can you verify which have taken more than the five years?

I guess it depends on what we're basing our experience on, when I voted I was thinking of this

 

Bachmann to produce ex LBSC Atlantic H2 Class 4-4-2

Started by Graham_Muz, Aug 31 2013 10:11

 

getting close to five years if the H2 appears in 2017.

 

There are plenty of other announced models around that will go beyond five years, the smaller commissions particularly such as this

 

Kernow Models D6xx Update

Started by Andy Y, Sep 28 2012 16:17.

 

All the best,

 

Keith

[Andy Hayter]

I have posted how long I expect a model to take to come to market - this is longer than I would want a model to take to come to market.

 

There is a difference.

[davidw]

If a model is announced at Warley. I'd expect it available within the following year.

[Nile_Griffith]

I'm trying hard to think of another area of commercial production that I have experience with, where manufacturers seem to get away with what often are very elastic timescales for release of new items. I don't really have any involvement in other area's of modelling (military, dolls houses etc) so can't answer for the makers in those specialities. However within my own trade, manufacturers recognise the need to keep their promises to purchasers as a failure to do so can see those same purchasers migrate to other providers and develop other allegiances.

 

I think what we see with this whole product to market timeline thing. Is a manufacturing spread who to my mind seem almost as market research averse as they are product duplication averse.

 

I do feel that for some companies (no names no pack drills), Product announcements are really just covert market research strategies.

[asmay2002]

It's not meaningless; it asks you how long you expect to wait - not how quickly you would like it, nor does it ask how long you think it may actually take. 

If it wasn't a badly worded question people wouldn't be confused.

[The Stationmaster]

Based on experience I would expect to see the model within  3-5 years so will click on that one.  

 

But going beyond that there are further considerations - as the number of 'manufacturers'/commissioners increases so the fertile fields for new models shrinks and it costs an awful lot to develop something to announcement on verge of production only to find someone else announcing/making it so I tend to think increasingly there is a lot to be said for early announcement, especially if the alternative is going bust.  Mind you it is nice to have the occasional surprise from out of the blue.

 

Add to this crowded 'manufacturing' scene the fact that almost all of them in the British market and certainly all in mainstream r-t-r now seem to buy in from elsewhere at least part of the process and all of them buy in the actual production although in one case it is from a parent company.  This reliance on external parties introduces complications, especially as all the manufacture is located a long way offshore from the 'manufacturers' & commissioners thus extending time needed to approve, and make modifications to CADs, to EP samples, to early production models and to livery samples although if all design up to CAD stage is in-house then the system will obviously be better.  True electronic communication allows ready movement of data but while it is very easy to sit with a CAD operator in China and, say, add cylinder draincocks in the right place with reference to prototype photos it's not so easy to explain it all in emails to someone who is not familiar with steam loco engineering and whose first language is very different from yours.

 

So extended development timescales are often unavoidable, for everybody, and it can make rectifying mistakes awkward or sometimes impossible - so I come back to my 3-5 years.  But once deliveries start I do not expect to have to wait nearly two years for my pre-ordered model to arrive; that in my view is a far bigger failing than the initial wait (and yes - it has happened to me, and it finally arrived 20 months after the first delivery to shops but the red box was brand spanking new so it clearly hadn't been sitting on a shelf all that time)