31A S&T

[LNERGE]

Yup arm and slot on/slot off.

[Grovenor]

Just in case anybody was beginning to think I'd given up on this, an update.  Like many projects, the signal gantry seemed to take shape quickly to start with, but then the finishing off stages take an inordinate amount of time.

 

Since the signal arms have a 'dog clutch' device as part of the bearing, each arm is matched to it's bearing and so when painting them I had to make sure they remained identified as to their positions.  I had in mind that somebody had produced some transfers for signal arms at some time, but if so I can't find them now,

Transfers from here http://www.hall-royd-junction.co.uk/Products/Signal_Transfers/index.html

Regards

[31A]

I bought some OO signal kits at the Stevage show and i'm finding them a bit fiddly and flimsy.. I can at least go out and install bits that are actually strong enough..

 

IMG_0552.JPG

 

 

Yes, they can be fragile.  I usually laminate two thicknesses together when making up the weight bars, but in this instance there wasn't enough clearance with three having to go into each bracket.  I remembered years ago I did make some signals using a single thickness and didn't remember them breaking, so thought it ought to be OK.  I think (hope) the break was brought on by the fact that the angle in the wire from sub baseboard was bent the wrong way and I tried to force it through the hole regardless, which caused the weight bar to twist.

 

I did make up a new one using a double thickness but as I expected, there wasn't enough clearance for the pull wires.  So I've made up another the same as the one that broke and have fitted it, but need to make some re-adjustment to the pull wires etc.  And to think I had it all working nicely before I tried to plant it in the ground!  Anyway I think I'd best sleep on it and have another look tomorrow.

Transfers from here http://www.hall-royd-junction.co.uk/Products/Signal_Transfers/index.html

Regards

 

 

Many thanks!  That's a new one on me but will bear in mind when I make some more signals.  At the moment I'm rather sick of the sight of them!

[The Stationmaster]

Transfers from here http://www.hall-royd-junction.co.uk/Products/Signal_Transfers/index.html

Regards

 

Useful link thanks - shame they seem to have got the dates jumbled for GWR pressed steel arm with several quoted for the original pattern (of which Peter Squibb's is I think the correct one at 1930 as the GWR was erecting tubular steel signal posts with timber arms in the early 1930s) while the second style was definitely GWR in origin and not BR with examples dated 1947 and clearly marked GWR although if they were produced before that year I'm not certain.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Today I'll be mainly drilling 28 x 0.5mm holes round the edges of the deck for the handrail stanchions!  Seemed sensible to do this while the deck can still be worked on 'in the flat'.  Thanks to Eileen's Emporium for swiftly delivering another supply of drill bits; I wonder how long they'll last.

 

Phil at Hobby Holidays does an 0.5mm centre drill, saves a few broken drill bits and no wandering.

 

Mike.

[Jon Fitness]

Excellent work on the signals Steve. I don't think I could handle the delicacy of 4mm signals now!

Alan Gibson Workshop do some nice 4mm etched signal kits (all of which I wish he would do in 7mm scale!) if you need a bit of variety to the MSE ones. Scroll down the catalogue to about page 23...

Cheers

Jon F.

[31A]

Transfers from here http://www.hall-royd-junction.co.uk/Products/Signal_Transfers/index.html

Regards

 

 

Thanks again, Keith - I've had a proper look at their web site now, and their transfers look very useful.

[31A]

Phil at Hobby Holidays does an 0.5mm centre drill, saves a few broken drill bits and no wandering.

 

Mike.

Thank you Mike, I do find Hobby Holidays a good source of all kinds of materials but hadn't thought of that - I'll ask him next time I run across him at an exhibition.

[31A]

Excellent work on the signals Steve. I don't think I could handle the delicacy of 4mm signals now!

Alan Gibson Workshop do some nice 4mm etched signal kits (all of which I wish he would do in 7mm scale!) if you need a bit of variety to the MSE ones. Scroll down the catalogue to about page 23...

Cheers

Jon F.

 

Thanks so much John, very welcome encouragement to sort out my 'signal failure'!  I have a plan, but have also had some beer today so it'll have to wait until tomorrow.

 

I must admit, I didn't realise the Alan Gibson range included so many signal parts.

[31A]

Anyway, I managed to replace the broken weight arm.  Just as well there was nobody around to witness the language!

 

Here's a picture of the signal with finials added, and paintwork 'touched up', prior to installation.  Interesting what a difference the finials add to the overall appearance and proportions of the model.

 

 

And one of it 'planted'.  

 

 

I decided (in view of its location in particular) that it needs to be weathered and I found it quite hard to bring myself to do this after all the work that's gone into it; consequently I've perhaps been quite restrained with this in particular in the area of the dolls and arms.  This also means it doesn't show up too well in the picture against the background; because of where it is, I wasn't able to get much light on the front of it for the photo.  I have connected up the links to the underground mechanism but it isn't connected to a lever frame yet, so 'just in case', I've left the weight bar pivots 'long', and yet not disguised the foundations sunk into the ballast.  Annoying that the sub arm on the left hand doll doesn't now want to return fully to 'on'; I suspect there's some friction between the pull wires that run horizontally along the deck.  I hope that when I do have it connected up to the frame, I'll be able to tweak it some more and get it to work better.  Ironically, that particular sub arm isn't really required as I can't think of a circumstance in which it would need to be used!

 

In case anyone's wondering, the signal applies to the line immediately to the left of the left hand post which is the Up Main and directs as follows:  left hand doll - to Platform 1 (straight on), middle doll - to Platform 2 (where the front of a loco can be seen in the background), right hand doll - to Platform 3.  The line to the left of the loco is the Middle Siding, but there isn't a signalled route from this signal into it.

Edited March 8, 2017 by 31A

[Jon Fitness]

Stunning work and I totally agree about the finials!  The whole structure's proportions look nicely balanced.

Did I read that you have used fusewire for the long runs across the top of the structure? Fuse wire may turn out to be a bit soft for long term use and may be the cause of adjustment issues such as the c/o arm on the left. It may be prudent to eventually replace it with some nice straight nickel-silver wire maybe 0.4mm or even just 0.3mm, or nearest equivalent.

Keep up the good (s&t) work!

All the best

JF

Edited March 8, 2017 by Jon Fitness

[31A]

Thank you, John.

 

Yes, I did use 5 amp fuse wire, as it is the thinnest wire I can find (and approximately the right colour for galvanised wire).  I've used it before on simpler signals and it seems to work OK, but I think this application may be a 'bridge too far' for it!

 

My reasoning being that it only has to 'pull' and the upper quadrant arms return under their own weight with no 'push' needed from the wire in the same way  that real ones do and this does seem to work with most model signals I've made; however this may be why the full sized arms on this one work well but the miniatures are less good.

 

I was careful to route the pull wires from the weight arms via the cranks in such a way that they shouldn't conflict with each other, and initially I had each arm set up individually so that it worked OK.  I think adding the handrails made a difference as some of the pull wires run alongside the stanchions, and also they are constrained by the stanchions and there is somehow friction between them.  Also in the case of the small arm on the left hand doll, this one has the longest pull from the cranks at the right hand end of the bridge and it could be that the way the cranks are set, the horizontal pull wire just drops to its lowest point under its own weight and doesn't move any further, not far enough to allow the arm to drop.  But having said that, it did work on the bench!  I hope once the cranks beneath the baseboard are connected to levers and can be made to work properly, any 'rough spots' or friction e.g. from running against matt paint may wear off.

 

I certainly hope I don't have to go back and replace them with rigid wire, I don't think I could possibly do it!  But will certainly bear your suggestion in mind for future complex signals.

 

Perhaps I'll fix the left hand 'sub' at danger, but that seems like a bit of a cop out!

 

Interestingly in his MRJ article, Chris Pendlenton suggested using thread from the weight bars to the arms, running round pins at the corners!

[Jon Fitness]

Gantries are always a bit of a challenge! As you say, once it's all connected up and has been working for a while it should bed in and loosen up.

Looks awesome though!

JF

[31A]

Thanks for your encouragement, John - appreciated!

[31A]

Time to revisit this theme, and something a bit simpler this time!  The lever frame as it exists at the moment has two spare levers, so I'm going to use them to operate the signal which controls movements from Platform 1.  Finsbury Square is a terminus, and Platform 1 can only be used by arriving passenger trains.  Consequently shunt moves from it will be controlled by a semaphore signal with two miniature arms, the top one for wrong direction moves back along the Up Main, and the lower one for moves towards the Up Siding which acts as a shunt neck.

 

Another chopstick bit the dust, and arms and fittings are once again from the MSE range.

 

 

The arm bearings are pinned to the wooden post by a clasp made from brass wire soldered to the bearing tubes, passed through the post and clenched over on the other side.  The arms and their bearings once again incorporate a 'dog clutch' arrangement to limit the arms' travel.  Also in this picture can be seen the weight bars and their bearing; each one is two of the MSE etched parts sweated together, with washers soldered on either side for strength and to provide clearance between them for the pull wires.  The bearing on the MSE fret of post fittings isn't wide enough to accommodate two arms this wide, but I found a piece of square brass tube which was and made a bearing up from that.

 

 

The lamps have now been added, and the ladder made using the MSE flat etch with 0.45mm wire soldered down each side to thicken up the 'stiles'; the safety hoop is from the same material.  Also can be seen the weight bars, and cranks which will go below them on the post to transmit the drive.  A pity the post cap casting doesn't fit a bit more tightly to the top of the post, although the light from the bench LED lamp exaggerates this by casting a strong shadow!

 

 

The underground mechanism is once again made from a piece of aluminium angle, with cranks from brass, scrap rail and sheet lead.

 

 

 

 

[31A]

Here we have the finished signal, planted on the layout:

 

 

Having connected it up to the underground mechanism and got it working, the base plate has been covered by a piece of sandpaper, torn to a rough shape and glued to the cork underlay:

 

 

The station pilot, 350hp Diesel D3334, demonstrates the use of the signal, removing a set of coaches from Platform 1 to the Up Siding which diverges to the right at the double slip ahead.

 

[31A]

A while ago I put this picture on my Finsbury Square layout thread.  It's a bit of a cluttered view, but it shows a cardboard cutout mock up of the semaphore signal I intended to build, to replace the non working colour light at the end of Platform 4.  The arms on the taller, right hand doll would read from Platform 4 to the Down Slow (upper arm) and from platform 4 to the Down Fast (lower arm).  The miniature arm on the left hand doll applies for movements towards the goods yard, either Siding 1 or Siding 2 depending on the shunter's hand signals.

I decided to go ahead and build the signal.  I chose to try and use some of the parts I've accumulated over the years, so the etched and white metal parts are from the original Model Signal Engineering (Derek Mundy) and D&S Models ranges, but the same or equivalent parts are now available from Wizard Models.  The main post is a two part etch, to which I've added verticals from 1mm x 1mm brass angle.  As well as giving nice sharp corners to the post, this also adds to the strength.  I've had a go at representing the diagonal bracing between the front and back of the cantilevered bracket.  This isn't usually very clear in photos and drawings, and I'm not sure whether it's quite right but not very obvious when the signal is in place.  The cantilevered bracket etch didn't include parts for the landing, so I've cut that from the Wizard Models part S008/8.  The landing has bearers made from more of the 1mm x 1mm brass angle, and handrails are made from 0.45mm brass wire.  Because the feet of the handrail stanchions lie behind the bearers which would be difficult to reach with the soldering iron, I made the landing up as a separate unit including the handrails and cranks.  The dolls are again carved out of chopsticks; in fact there was very little carpentry involved as I was able to cut them out of earlier rejects!  They fit into sockets made from square brass tube. The dolls will be held into the sockets with wire pegs; in the picture below they're retained temporarily by pins.

 

 

It was handy to keep the dolls separate from the main post during construction as painting, and fitting the cranks etc. was easier with the components separate.  The next picture shows painting more or less finished, and the arms and cranks attached.  I added the finials virtually last of all, as they are quite vulnerable.

 

 

And this show the finished signal.  Before 'planting' it, I weathered it.

 

 

Some of the angles of the cranks, pull wires etc. look a bit awkward, but I wanted to avoid the pull wires crossing over each other at the cranks (although on real signals they sometimes do).  The base cranks are really there as attachment points for the connections from the underground mechanism, and each is made by laminating two cranks from the MSE 'Post Fittings' etch, with washers soldered either side to give clearance for the wire connections.  The weight bars are similarly laminated.  The pull wires are again made from 5 amp fuse wire.

 

The last two pictures show the signal planted on the layout.

 

 

 

 

The underground mechanism is made up of cranks and lead weights as described earlier in the thread, but because of where it is, in the corner of a baseboard, it was necessary to arrange the cranks to work at right angles to the track rather than parallel with it.  It was also VERY difficult to see what I was doing when it came to connecting it all up!

 

The railway company has deemed it necessary to add a length of iron railings to the top of the retaining wall, to prevent miscreants tampering with the signalling system, or using the signal ladder to gain access to the goods yard!  They seem to have discovered quite an ornate section of railing ...  And nobody seems to know how those "Stephen's Ink" enamel adverts survived the wartime scrap drive.

[CUTLER2579]

Steve,

I don't know how I missed this Topic until your last post on Finsbury Square. Like this a lot. Mind you still not ready for an article in one of the mags ?

[31A]

25 minutes ago, CUTLER2579 said:

Steve,

I don't know how I missed this Topic until your last post on Finsbury Square. Like this a lot. Mind you still not ready for an article in one of the mags ?

 

Thanks for your support!  I think it probably is, it's just a case of me pulling my finger out (and the vacuum cleaner)!!