A Cartoon of Helston(ish)

[Andrew P]

You lucky people, that is a nice view..

 

Now what about these Layout pics as well?

[PannierTanker14]

1 hour ago, Mulgabill said:

So just to finish business - the view from the side window

 

 

 

And taken about 20 yds up the road from our new des res

 

 

I can look forward to 4 panniers, and 2 manors + others this weekend!

 

TONY

That top photo deserves to be put in a frame!

especially if it’s a frame in an art gallery!

[Mulgabill]

I've got 5 mins or so, before a day at the club doing point rodding. (Might get a 1' or so done, Judging by the fact that on Monday

club night, I realised we had a rod too few on the runnwere working on).

Any way thought I'd try to sheer Andy P up with a couple of those pics my brother took. Nothing too special mind,

but a bit more of a glimpse of what to come. (Runner beans do last into Early Autumn don't they?)

 

Well what a disappointment - having actually spent time the other day downloading the batch of pics, and saving on my computer,

I now can't find them - ****! They do exist somewhere, Just not where I was convinced I'd adressed them, or where I can find them.

 

So as consolation a couple from the WSR Autumn gala, which  have made it onto Taunton Trains website gallery. Now wish I'd

sent my brother some steam pics as well, cos he forwarded these for consideration. I will share some of those with you shortly.

 

 

 

Andy - you are allowed to be suitably inspired.

 

Back soon - I hope.

 

TONY

[Andrew P]

8 hours ago, Mulgabill said:

I've got 5 mins or so, before a day at the club doing point rodding. (Might get a 1' or so done, Judging by the fact that on Monday

club night, I realised we had a rod too few on the runnwere working on).

Any way thought I'd try to sheer Andy P up with a couple of those pics my brother took. Nothing too special mind,

but a bit more of a glimpse of what to come. (Runner beans do last into Early Autumn don't they?)

 

Well what a disappointment - having actually spent time the other day downloading the batch of pics, and saving on my computer,

I now can't find them - ****! They do exist somewhere, Just not where I was convinced I'd adressed them, or where I can find them.

 

So as consolation a couple from the WSR Autumn gala, which  have made it onto Taunton Trains website gallery. Now wish I'd

sent my brother some steam pics as well, cos he forwarded these for consideration. I will share some of those with you shortly.

 

 

 

Andy - you are allowed to be suitably inspired.

 

Back soon - I hope.

 

TONY

Thanks Tony, Not one of my favourite Locos but a couple of superb images, especially that night time shot, post some more, they WILL be appreciated mate.

Cheers Tony.

 

Andy.

[Mulgabill]

Way-Hay ----- have found the missing pics

 

So a couple of the new section, with a 25 on a down goods, and shunting the small siding, which

is only accessible in this direction.

 

 

 

If I can find some time to get the cottage garden sorted, I will hopefully be able to share the new development wiith new pics, from the "proper"

viewpoint.

 

p.s. We did manage about 14" of point rodding today, at the club. But perversely whilst it is frustrating, it's also oddly satisfying, when you get

those small victories. Like getting 2 bits of rodding to actually join together.

 

Back again - soon I hope.

 

TONY

[St Enodoc]

2 hours ago, Mulgabill said:

Way-Hay ----- have found the missing pics

 

So a couple of the new section, with a 25 on a down goods, and shunting the small siding, which

is only accessible in this direction.

 

 

 

If I can find some time to get the cottage garden sorted, I will hopefully be able to share the new development wiith new pics, from the "proper"

viewpoint.

 

p.s. We did manage about 14" of point rodding today, at the club. But perversely whilst it is frustrating, it's also oddly satisfying, when you get

those small victories. Like getting 2 bits of rodding to actually join together.

 

Back again - soon I hope.

 

TONY

Nice to see more progress Tony.

[Mulgabill]

As promised a couple more pics from WSR Autumn Gala

 

7714 working the morning goods, towards Blue Anchor

 

 

Then again fading into the distance, wish I could say it was an evening train heading home.

 

 

But it wasn't.

 

Will try to put up a couple more soon.

 

TONY

 

Edit - crikey the 2nd came out BIG! But at least its the right way up.

 

Edited October 21, 2019 by Mulgabill

[Mulgabill]

As p[romised a couple more WSR pics

 

 

 

Off to get some more soon.

 

TONY

[Andrew P]

Ooooooooo

[Mulgabill]

Some recent ( last 2 -3 months) arrivals to the Helstonish roster.

 

 

This will become 9680 as its an 8750 class and will get the "cardboard numberplate" treatment, currently carried by a mainline 57xx.

Which in turn will revert to a 57xx

 

 

These were obtained from a car boot sale in the field next to our caravan park at Blue Anchor. Pristine, boxed and reasonably priced.

 

Can't load any more so will post again.

 

TONY

 

[Mulgabill]

Continuing - there is also a GW Railcar (Lima) in BR Green. Obtained from a 2nd hand dealer at the WSR Autumn Gala

(plus a bin lorry negotiated in the deal).

 

 

Also evidence of the benefits of the caravan.

 

I have managed to (nearly) complete some ratio signals. (One of the kits was started 43 years ago!)

 

 

Hopefully I'll find time this weekend to get the painting finished.

 

There remains some signalling queries which I'll post separately, in the hope somebody (Paul or Signalman Mike perhaps),

can answer.

 

TONY

[Mulgabill]

Right the conundrum is

 

In pictures of Helston the appears a low bracket, near the signalbox, for access to the shed, or running line (up).

There is another which signals to the platform, or loop/goodsyard.

 

In 1 picture I noted a single home signal, adjacent to the shed, alongside the running line. What does it do?

 

This is the short bracket in approx position on the layout.

 

 

This shows the signal post in question. Approx in position. I have also included a fixed distant, for Sodley Crossing, which did not

exist at Helston.

 

 

Also will I need ground signals for the loop, goods shed, and cattle dock lines? Oh and engine shed exit?

 

Will leave the run round crossover and goods shed (far end) for now.

 

Thanks for any help, in anticipation.

 

TONY

[5BarVT]

Since I last commented I have invested in the West Country SRS plans CD (and others) so I no longer have to guess from a hazy thumbnail.  I see why you might be confused: there appears to be no point in the signal as you can’t get back anywhere else than where you came so why not ‘right away’ from the platform.  My gut feel is that it is an engineering provision.  It will have all the interlinking with the token which would otherwise need to be duplicated across to the loop/siding exit signals too.  It also has a lower shunt ahead arm to allow use of the loop and sidings which may have different token interlocking to allow it to be retuned into the same machine (not quite sure on this - too young!).  Doing that on a shunt signal is difficult as you cannot tell whether it is being used for a shunt out and back, or right away into the section.

Paul.

[Mulgabill]

20 hours ago, 5BarVT said:

Since I last commented I have invested in the West Country SRS plans CD (and others) so I no longer have to guess from a hazy thumbnail.  I see why you might be confused: there appears to be no point in the signal as you can’t get back anywhere else than where you came so why not ‘right away’ from the platform.  My gut feel is that it is an engineering provision.  It will have all the interlinking with the token which would otherwise need to be duplicated across to the loop/siding exit signals too.  It also has a lower shunt ahead arm to allow use of the loop and sidings which may have different token interlocking to allow it to be retuned into the same machine (not quite sure on this - too young!).  Doing that on a shunt signal is difficult as you cannot tell whether it is being used for a shunt out and back, or right away into the section.

Paul.

 

Many thanks for that Paul.

 

It's not an explanation I would have guessed at, but sounds quite plausible.

 

Can I prevail to seek your further thoughts, in light of this.

 

Should I add add a shunt ahead arm below (I presume) the fixed distant?

 

If so would this act as a home signal for the loop/good shed/ loading bank?

 

Or would I need separate ground signals for these line? (and where would they be placed.

 

The more I get into this, the more intriguing I find this black art. Indeed it could be said that it's got

me into trouble, as I've eneded up doing much of the point rodding on the clubs layout.

With regard to which - what signalling would you expect for a release crossing at a platform end. If the

points were operated from a platform mounted ground frame hut?

 

I/We are working on the basis that we need aminimum of 1 point lever + FPL. But would there be ground

signals required (or could the driver be called back (as currently at Minehead). If they are needed, would

they be operated by the groundframe or the station signal box. Clearly the groundframe would need to be

(electronically) realeased by the signal box, whatever. I would think.

 

Once again many thanks

 

TONY

[Neal Ball]

Just caught up with Helstonish which looks very good.

 

Also have enjoyed the photos of the Hymeks, thanks for sharing

[Mulgabill]

Hi Neal

 

Thanks for taking the time to catch up.

 

It does feel a bit as though things have somewhat stood still this year, but hopefully things may

pick up over the winter. I am certainly looking to share the details of the corner rebuild, which

I noted have been going on for about a year. And I have deliberately tiried to avoid showing every

step along the way.

 

Since you appreciated the Hymek pics here are a couple more.

 

Firstly arriving light engine on its return to Williton at the end of its Autumn Gala duties.

 

 

And a detail noticed whilst it was waiting to cross with a pannier on the last service train to Minehead.

 

 

I wonder when we'll see somebdy model that detail?

 

Finally a reminder to anybody who can help, there is still my signalling poser in the last post to debate.

 

TONY

p.s. does seem quiet here at Blue Anchor, with no trains running. There is a stop block

across the line in front of the caravan.

 

[5BarVT]

Afternoon Tony,

 

Easy one first: on a sample of 2 (Penzance and Newquay) a 2 lever GF for the release crossover is what you need. Lever 1 is FPL and 2 is points.  No discs needed as instructions will be given locally by the person operating the GF. 

 

Back to Helston(ish): looking at photos I think your layout matches the 1958 new frame which makes life easier as I have the mechanical locking for that.  The starting signal (with lower distant in your case) has an electric lock which will be for release by token. The shunt arm below has no lock so can be cleared irrespective of token release.  The shunt arm would go below the distant if you were to add one.  Photos of the Down Hones at Westbury North would show the arrangement (they have calling on arms but shunt arms are positioned the same).   Disc signals were provided on the platform road either side of the run round turnout, on the mileage siding at the toes of the points to the stone chute siding and coming out of the engine loop/shed siding.

 

Hope you can follow the description for the discs. Just say if a diagram would help and I’ll do one and add it.

Paul.

Edited November 10, 2019 by 5BarVT
Diagram added.

[Mulgabill]

Thanks Paul

 

I think I can follow that, but if you can easily do a diagram, I'll deffinately get it right. (Funny how the older

I get the more I find drawings, and colour coding, helps.

 

TONY

[5BarVT]

Diagram added above.  I've shown the signal from the mileage siding as a yellow disc as it only reads out on to the mainline and I think that by 1958 it would have been yellow.  (Too lazy to add your two bracket signals!)

Paul.

[Mulgabill]

Again many thanks Paul.

 

However, it seems every answer prompts another question.

 

So, how does a yellow groundsignal work?

 

By my (naive) reconing, that would allow a loco to pass, under caution, to the next home

signal ( the one you show?). But that route could include points that are set aginst the

loco. Clearly I'm missing something. And hopefully about to learn something.

 

In turn this prompts another question. Some while back I seem to recall that some

points were worked by ground levers, but the groundsignals seem to imply they

would be under the signalmans control.

 

Also would I be right in thinking that when shunting, the loco+train would run on the main

until past the down bracket signal (beyond the bridge), before being signalled back. Or

would they be allowed to just clear the appropriate point before being called back by

the shunter?

 

Just to enliven the post, for those not into signalling (yet), a couple of gratuitous pics

of  cute panniers at the WSR Autumn Gala

 

 

 

As an afterthought, am I the only one to think the enforced weight restriction this year on the WSR

has been a very pleasant interlude, with locos appropriate to the line appearing all year.

 

Apparently not to be repeated, with a 9F the first booked for next Springs gala.

 

TONY

 

[5BarVT]

Yellow shunt signals: Fun!  I think the rules used to say you must stop unless you are going to the line for which it doesn’t apply.  What it means is it will tell you when it is safe to go if you are going where it does apply.  So at Helston, you shunt past it into the stone chute siding, when you want to come out through the siding crossover you wait for it to clear as that tells you the points are set correctly.  It works when the signalman can see what’s going on and doesn’t try moving points under a shunting train. Not liked these days when the signaller can’t see where trains are because slack communication can lead to problems.

 

Back to release crossovers: Minehead had a single lever (no FPL), Porthcawl had a 4 lever frame points, FPLs and two discs.  I’ve also found a more complicated GF working sidings at Plymouth Millbay which also had shunt signals. So it’s almost the case that whatever you do it is right!

 

Shunting out and back depends on what the rules say (need The Stationmaster for that!). Technically you could stop clear of the points and not go fully behind the signal.  Operationally I would want the signal to be cleared so that you know the route is set properly, but the driver can probably see the signal. There certainly were shunters hand signals to tell the signalman that the train was clear of the points so they could be moved ready for the next shunt.

 

Paul.

[Mulgabill]

Very informative Paul, and many thanks for that.

 

Currently Minehead does have 2 levers black & blue, and no ground signals. What I can't swear to

is that the blue one is used. I'm usually too focussed on the loco, so have my back to the groundframe

when itts operated. Onto the to do list for the spring!

 

Thanks

 

TONY

[The Johnster]

Yellow disc signal, displaying yellow light at night/FFS, may be passed at caution if the road is set for the direction it does not read to.  Eh, say that again...

 

Example; an exit from a yard or siding with a headshunt parallel to the running line.  The signal will protect the exit, and reads, when ‘off’, to the running line.  You can only pass it if it is off if the road is set for the running line, and the interlocking ensures this. If it is ‘on’, yellow light at night, you can, however, pass it if the road is set for the headshunt.  

 

As with all shunting and subsidiary signals, it does not ensure a clear road to the next signal and must be passed at caution, that is, at a speed low enough for the train to be stopped safely within the distance that the driver can see that the line ahead is clear.  

 

Speeds are low and the driver can see clearly the road that the points are set to 

[MullionPeter]

Very interested in you Helston model, I am looking to take up a project from 30+ years ago and also model the Helston station would be very interested in any tips, drawing plans that you might be willing to share, although there is a lot here already :-)

[Mulgabill]

14 hours ago, MullionPeter said:

Very interested in you Helston model, I am looking to take up a project from 30+ years ago and also model the Helston station would be very interested in any tips, drawing plans that you might be willing to share, although there is a lot here already :-)

 

Hi Peter welcome aboard.

 

Although it has at times seemed a bit slow, sharieng Helstonish on here has been most enjoyable, It wouldn't have been

anywhere near as much fun, without the support that has come back. Especially from people like John / St Enodoc

)aka Upside Down John), who copied and sent me thr necesssary drawings via the interweb thing. from Australia.

 

I will try to dig these out from the electronic depths of my laptop, and send them in a pm, but it may take a few days,

please be patient.

 

In the meantime, will you be posting about your plans etc on hear? And please feel free to raise any queries you may

come acrosss.

 

All the best

 

TONY