RMweb Premium Andy Keane Posted April 5, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, Mulgabill said: Andy Your last posts have sent me to find my copy of The Helston Branch; Oakwood Press No 184, by Stanley C Jenkins. Do you have a copy? If not, I would recommend it, it is my go to reference. Doesn't answer everything, but most things are there. In the above book, it quotes for 1914 a 517 class 0-4-2T 1481 and in 1921 no 1158 and 2-6-2T 4403 all as shedded at Helston. For the BR period there were predominently 2-6-2Tanks, but with a variety appearing, implying from Long Rock's allocation. e.g.4500/ 4502/ 6/9/17/ 23/ 5/ 37/ 40/ 45/ 8/ 54/ 6/ 8/ 64/ 65/ 70/ 4/ 7/ 55/62 additionally in appendix 1 (some loco's) listed are 4401/ 3/ 5/ 6/ 8/ 9 (ironically not 7 which your man quoted) Here I have to say my approach is to capture the overall look, rather than absolute fidelity. As such I would look at proportions. Also we are used to tighter radii in models, than the scale equivalent. So a large radius, can represent a rather larger prototypical figure, quite convincingly. I would suggest the more important factor is that there is sufficient room for the loco shed area. (To be honest, mine is a bit too constricted, hence the outbuilding at the front). Large radius points, on the approach running lines, should help with that. As said before, smaller radius for the goods lines, would help retain the feel of the original. But these are factors you will need to determine, as you will have to live with it for some time. Personally I had assumed that Siphons would have been bound to have appeared, especially when you include MOD specials for personel, with kit. I have not entirely pinned down the appropriate hoppers for the serpentine workings, although somebody suggested they were latterly an ex MR/LMS type. I have found no reference to the design used as the rabbit van, so rightly or wrongly I have tended to use a fruit D. Although somebody on here mentioned that there is a pic of an ex LNER Pidgeon Van working on the branch, which I could see as having been purloined for that traffic, i the 50s, perhaps. Any other thoughts, just ask, I'm rather enjoying having a reason to revisit my subject. TONY Tony Many thanks for all this. I agree the overfeel is what counts. I am continuing to play with AnyTrack as well. I have also ordered a stack of books - these need to be smuggled in of course. Dave47549 is also looking at what operated there. Not sure what sources of rolling stock to use. I am more interested in building the layout than the stock at the moment so will see what I can find on ebay etc to begin with. And I will split my posts so as not to clutter yours with my meanderings and misunderstandings! But it IS nice to get your imputs as a start this whole thing going again. regards Andy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Keane Posted April 6, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 6, 2021 Tony I think your copy of the book by Jenkins must differ from mine. In mine in Appendix 1 there are no 44xx engines listed at all? And the only 042Ts are 569 and 1163. Maybe your copy is a later print? Mine is dated 1992. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulgabill Posted April 6, 2021 Author Share Posted April 6, 2021 Good morning Andy. My copy is 2011. Having checked this, it caused me to look at a book I picked up at the West Somerset just after the 1st lockdown. I had put it aside as an "early" copy (1968). I will now read through, just in case, as strictly speaking it's different in that the title is The Hayle, West Cornwall and Helston Railways by GH Anthony. (Oakwood Press No 21 price 15s 0d net). A quick scan reveals little specific detail re locos (only D6312 re the last day workings). The 2011 version of loco' papers 184 does refers to Dukedog as being yellow engines were permitted, with 43xx 2-6-0s and 5101 2-6-2T being blue but permitted to work, limited to 20mph between mp 6m40ch and 8m 60ch (presumably inc Cober viaduct). Although it does go on to say they are unlikely to have worked the route in peacetime. Also in the text is58xx were used on the line on a sporadic basis in the later GWR period, while 57xx are said to have been employed occasionally in the BR era. Appendix 1 lists Churchward prototype 0-4-4T 34 / 55 517 class 0-4-2T 69 / 1158 / 1163 / 1481 Metro 2-4-0T 1496 / 3582 44 / 45xx as listed previously 2021 0-6-0ST 2097 / 2148 850 0-6-0ST 859 / 992 / 1935 / 1943 / 1973 / 1989 / 2019 58xx 0-4-2T 5812 2700 0-6-0ST 2752 NB type 2 B-B D6308 / D6309 / D6312 Hope this helps, and it's all useful info to have on here, again thanks for taking me back to my references. TONY p.s. I also noticed a reference to an item in Railway World Nov 1964. I will try to keep an eye open for that. Please let me know should you come across it first. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Keane Posted April 7, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 7, 2021 22 hours ago, Mulgabill said: Good morning Andy. My copy is 2011. Having checked this, it caused me to look at a book I picked up at the West Somerset just after the 1st lockdown. I had put it aside as an "early" copy (1968). I will now read through, just in case, as strictly speaking it's different in that the title is The Hayle, West Cornwall and Helston Railways by GH Anthony. (Oakwood Press No 21 price 15s 0d net). A quick scan reveals little specific detail re locos (only D6312 re the last day workings). The 2011 version of loco' papers 184 does refers to Dukedog as being yellow engines were permitted, with 43xx 2-6-0s and 5101 2-6-2T being blue but permitted to work, limited to 20mph between mp 6m40ch and 8m 60ch (presumably inc Cober viaduct). Although it does go on to say they are unlikely to have worked the route in peacetime. Also in the text is58xx were used on the line on a sporadic basis in the later GWR period, while 57xx are said to have been employed occasionally in the BR era. Appendix 1 lists Churchward prototype 0-4-4T 34 / 55 517 class 0-4-2T 69 / 1158 / 1163 / 1481 Metro 2-4-0T 1496 / 3582 44 / 45xx as listed previously 2021 0-6-0ST 2097 / 2148 850 0-6-0ST 859 / 992 / 1935 / 1943 / 1973 / 1989 / 2019 58xx 0-4-2T 5812 2700 0-6-0ST 2752 NB type 2 B-B D6308 / D6309 / D6312 Hope this helps, and it's all useful info to have on here, again thanks for taking me back to my references. TONY p.s. I also noticed a reference to an item in Railway World Nov 1964. I will try to keep an eye open for that. Please let me know should you come across it first. Tony thanks for that - I will annotate my copy of the book with the extra detail. I wonder what else might have been updated - maybe I will keep an eye out for a later copy. regards Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Keane Posted April 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 10, 2021 Tony Not sure if you have seen this: Home>Modelling Zone>Layout & Workbench Content>Modelling real locations>Revisiting Helston No other followers but me as yet though. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulgabill Posted April 10, 2021 Author Share Posted April 10, 2021 16 minutes ago, Andy Keane said: Tony Not sure if you have seen this: Home>Modelling Zone>Layout & Workbench Content>Modelling real locations>Revisiting Helston No other followers but me as yet though. Andy Thanks Andy I hadn't come across this before, although it doesn't seem to have taken off very much. And whilst I have managed to put together some ratio ground signals, I'm not convinced my eyes would let me attempt to get them working. Indeed I've got a number of old Mikes Models ones which haven't got very far yet. I hope you are still making good progress. All the best TONY 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Keane Posted April 10, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Mulgabill said: Thanks Andy I hadn't come across this before, although it doesn't seem to have taken off very much. And whilst I have managed to put together some ratio ground signals, I'm not convinced my eyes would let me attempt to get them working. Indeed I've got a number of old Mikes Models ones which haven't got very far yet. I hope you are still making good progress. All the best TONY I am currently (rather slowly) adding the stonework to my shed model ready for the laser. I now also have the LCUT windows and have adjusted the CAD to suit these - they are slightly larger than the drawing but close enough so that is great. Hope to make the first pass at laser cutting next week. Also have ebayed up a 45xx and two coaches to have some stock to size against the drwaings prior to cutting. I am not going to risk an engine shed with a door that is too small a second time around. regards Andy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted April 11, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 11, 2021 9 hours ago, Mulgabill said: I'm not convinced my eyes would let me attempt to get them working. It's not too hard if you cheat Tony! To save you searching back, here and in subsequent posts is how I do it. You could use the Ratio plastic discs instead of Scalelink etched ones and of course you can use whatever operating method you like (although I wouldn't recommend relays or solenoids): 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulgabill Posted April 11, 2021 Author Share Posted April 11, 2021 7 hours ago, St Enodoc said: It's not too hard if you cheat Tony! To save you searching back, here and in subsequent posts is how I do it. You could use the Ratio plastic discs instead of Scalelink etched ones and of course you can use whatever operating method you like (although I wouldn't recommend relays or solenoids): Sounds like a challenge! I had no plans to try for working ground , or indeed normal, signals. After finding the bits too fidley to hold, or see, when putting the basic ratio kit together. However your prompt has, sort of, tempted me. BUT it will not be taken up yet, as l will definitely need new specs first, and it will depend on how I get on with my shakey left hand. Could be something to play with at the caravan, when the trains are running again. Inspite of this waffle I am indeed grateful for the suggestion, and your continued interest in my cartoon, John. TONY 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Keane Posted April 27, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 27, 2021 On 05/03/2017 at 13:52, Mulgabill said: Well my last post stirred up a storm of.......... apathy. I'll try to make some redress here, but first should say that nobody should worry. The works train shown was, in fact, engaged in replacing the dodgy point at the goods shed exit. This has now been done, although not painted or ballasted. I'm also aware that one feed wire has become detatched below the board, and the frog polarity lead got lost through the board. Therefore we now have all soldered above ground level, but work need to be completed below, which in turn needs the boards to be separated. That may have to wait until nearer the SWAG trip in April. To carry on with the catch up photo wise following are some pics of the station build, starting on 11th Jan and progress 'till 16 Jan. As ever comments or queries welcomed, and more to follow shortly, if you like these. Tony I am looking at the station building. It looks like you have used LCUT doors and windows. Are these custom version or part of their standard range? regards Andy 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Keane Posted April 27, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 27, 2021 On 12/03/2017 at 11:21, Mulgabill said: As promised a few of the virtually complete building. I envisage some toning down/ weathering to come, plus some station signage/adverts I ordered this week. Although I've not yet quite worked out how I'll actually fit them. And approximately in situ on a visit to the layout - Now need to get the platform paving sorted. back soon I hope Have had a response from LCUT saying they have already done Helston station windows! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulgabill Posted April 27, 2021 Author Share Posted April 27, 2021 2 hours ago, Andy Keane said: Tony I am looking at the station building. It looks like you have used LCUT doors and windows. Are these custom version or part of their standard range? regards Andy Hi Andy - I am sorry I also owe you an answer from last week. We did manage a few days at our caravan, reconnecting and cleaning up after the protracted winter shutdown. Back home for a rest now! So I have had measure, and the gradient on Helstonish, shed point to bridge would appear to be about 1 in 7 ( ie 10mm in 700mm), but it was done by eye at the time. As I recall the doors and windows were done by LCut as a custom job, although it was, I think, more of a re-sizing of items they already did. As it happens I pay palled an invoice for them this morning, for items for my next project (low relief terrace of cottages, based on the row where we live). These are true custom, windows and doors, based on my drawings. But I also ordered some of their canopy brackets ( 00 18c) to replace those on my station. They are not as detailed as the original, but are better than the plain ones I fabricated originally. All the best TONY 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Keane Posted April 27, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 27, 2021 48 minutes ago, Mulgabill said: Hi Andy - I am sorry I also owe you an answer from last week. We did manage a few days at our caravan, reconnecting and cleaning up after the protracted winter shutdown. Back home for a rest now! So I have had measure, and the gradient on Helstonish, shed point to bridge would appear to be about 1 in 7 ( ie 10mm in 700mm), but it was done by eye at the time. As I recall the doors and windows were done by LCut as a custom job, although it was, I think, more of a re-sizing of items they already did. As it happens I pay palled an invoice for them this morning, for items for my next project (low relief terrace of cottages, based on the row where we live). These are true custom, windows and doors, based on my drawings. But I also ordered some of their canopy brackets ( 00 18c) to replace those on my station. They are not as detailed as the original, but are better than the plain ones I fabricated originally. All the best TONY Yes they still have the plans for your order and are going to make me a set which really helps. But I am not going for a gradient on the track otherwise things will roll around when uncoupled! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulgabill Posted May 1, 2021 Author Share Posted May 1, 2021 By way of an update for regular readers. It seems to have suddenly gone quiet on here for a number of reasons. This leaves Dolly perplexed. With the lockdown easing we have been able to actually go to the caravan. But in order that we could use it, I had to spend some uncomfortable time, underneath, reconnecting water. Hence a few days away, and no real time for any modelling whilst there. When at home, I have been doing some work on a mk2 thatched cottage. Very similar to mk1, and no pics yet. I have also drawn up out-lines, and more importantly windows, for a row of 6 low relief cottages. Based on the row in which we live. The window / door drawings were sent to L Cut Creative, and Jakub has sent them to me, within a week. The walls have been cut, and loosely taped together. But the roofline needs a bit of fettling, as I can't readily get to all the measurements. The row will be 620mm long, unless I feel compelled to reduce the number of cottages. I've also been taking advantage of the better weather, and spent time in the shed, restoring some longtime artefacts. Most of these were either stripped of, or without, paint, years ago. (Although one was hideously restored with chocolate lettering on cream base, by some idiot! In my favour I will point out, that it was done withe the same paint, and at the same time, as our first house was painted. That would be 1976 I think). This was the state of play 6th April, hopefully the big sign, the red wagon plate, and the axlebox cover will get finished this week. Need some bauxite paint for the LMS wagon plate, anybody got a suggestion what to use, I don't fancy doing that from a Humbrol tinlet. Hopefully I'll find some more to report soon, but theres likely to be fewer updates now that we can get about more, if the weather warms up a bit. Oh, and the magnetic coupling experiments have been suspended, I was wasting too much time fiddling, and need more magnets for further tests. And it looks like the club may reopen, in some way, from 17th May, having been closed for over a year. All the best TONY 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
treggyman Posted May 1, 2021 Share Posted May 1, 2021 Hi Tony Glad to see that life is getting more back to 'normal' for you..... Enjoy the new opportunities.......I'm sure there will be plenty of rainy days coming up for modelling.... Cheers Bill 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium St Enodoc Posted May 2, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 2, 2021 6 hours ago, Mulgabill said: a row of 6 low relief cottages. Based on the row in which we live. It must be interesting living in a low-relief cottage. 6 hours ago, Mulgabill said: Need some bauxite paint for the LMS wagon plate, anybody got a suggestion what to use Halford's red primer? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulgabill Posted May 2, 2021 Author Share Posted May 2, 2021 17 hours ago, St Enodoc said: It must be interesting living in a low-relief cottage. Halford's red primer? It would be interesting, with Kitchen, bathroom and Railway room, all being in the back (unmodelled) bit. Although I have long term thoughts to also build the rear half, and outbuildings. We shall see whether that eventually happens. The LMS wagon plate is in Halfords red primer, but doesn't quite look the part, to me. Other suggestions are welcomed. All the best TONY 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Keane Posted May 4, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 4, 2021 (edited) On 02/05/2021 at 19:57, Mulgabill said: It would be interesting, with Kitchen, bathroom and Railway room, all being in the back (unmodelled) bit. Although I have long term thoughts to also build the rear half, and outbuildings. We shall see whether that eventually happens. The LMS wagon plate is in Halfords red primer, but doesn't quite look the part, to me. Other suggestions are welcomed. All the best TONY Have you looked at floor paint - there is a very nice brick red version you can get which is very hard wearing. Edited May 4, 2021 by Andy Keane 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulgabill Posted May 9, 2021 Author Share Posted May 9, 2021 Where does all the time go? Since I retired, it seems to have shrunk , so that very little actually seems to get done.! What muddling that has been done, has produced no pictorial evidence. The Mk 2 thatched cottage has not progressed. Having been usurped by the terrace, which has been cut out, and the lower half scored to represent the dressed stone of the real thing. Next, I need to create a rougher texture for the top half, which is really a particularly porous, local stone. (A bit like swiss cheese, but harder). I have re-wheeled a K's low syphon, which has been persuaded to run the length of the layout, in both directions, without falling off. Thats the first time in approaching 50 yers, since it was built. Question is did any last into nationallisation? let alone the 60's. Some reasonably fine days, also means the sign, and wagon plates have progressed. Again pics have not materialised, and there is a little touching up to be done, but I may need some more black enamel, and not the cheap stuff, of which I have a plentiful supply. This shows the state of play when I last reported. That is all lettering had 1 coat, wheras all have been given a 2nd . The red backed wagon plate, at the same time, This has been touched up, and is finished, if that's possible. I will perhaps try to post some finished pics, and give their background, and provenance. Have also had another deviation, and drawn up "plans" for making corridor connections. I found the fair price models versions, very good, but too long, and tricky, to shorten. Therefore, I suspect it may prove easier to make them with fewer folds. We shall see. And the MRC, may not now re-open, until later in June! In part as it would avoid having to have 3 separate sessions for the 00 group. But, perhaps more importantly, because the new alarm in the community assoc hall, is refusing access to the facilities. (Not a good idea where I am probably classed as one of the younger members). Wee'l await the outcome with anticipation. Cheers for now TONY 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Keane Posted May 20, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 20, 2021 On 27/04/2021 at 13:44, Mulgabill said: Hi Andy - I am sorry I also owe you an answer from last week. We did manage a few days at our caravan, reconnecting and cleaning up after the protracted winter shutdown. Back home for a rest now! So I have had measure, and the gradient on Helstonish, shed point to bridge would appear to be about 1 in 7 ( ie 10mm in 700mm), but it was done by eye at the time. As I recall the doors and windows were done by LCut as a custom job, although it was, I think, more of a re-sizing of items they already did. As it happens I pay palled an invoice for them this morning, for items for my next project (low relief terrace of cottages, based on the row where we live). These are true custom, windows and doors, based on my drawings. But I also ordered some of their canopy brackets ( 00 18c) to replace those on my station. They are not as detailed as the original, but are better than the plain ones I fabricated originally. All the best TONY Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Keane Posted May 20, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 20, 2021 Tony, as you have seen cut are hard at work. Can I ask what paints you use for your buildings. I am planning acrylics but am always keen to know what others use. Do you spray or brush? best andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mulgabill Posted May 20, 2021 Author Share Posted May 20, 2021 Hi Andy The pics of yours pf the L Cut bits do look good. And I am impressed with your random stone pattern. I wish I could do that in inkscape which is what I attempt to draw in). With regard to paints, first I would caution that my buildings are card and DAS clay, so may require different techniques. But from memory, I started with a spray primer, either grey or red (Halfords). Then Artists acrylics, mixed to get the approx colour I wanted. This was applied by brush, and with plenty of water. Although I tend to be a bit too impatient, and more washes would probably be better. I have some laser cut parts (doors / windows) which are treated likewise, but without the primer. I find I can get the piece coloured, but with the detail still showing through, by effectively diluting with extra water. But care may be required to prevent warping. Hope that's helpful, let me know if there's anything I've missed. Cheers TONY 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Keane Posted May 20, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 20, 2021 33 minutes ago, Mulgabill said: Hi Andy The pics of yours pf the L Cut bits do look good. And I am impressed with your random stone pattern. I wish I could do that in inkscape which is what I attempt to draw in). With regard to paints, first I would caution that my buildings are card and DAS clay, so may require different techniques. But from memory, I started with a spray primer, either grey or red (Halfords). Then Artists acrylics, mixed to get the approx colour I wanted. This was applied by brush, and with plenty of water. Although I tend to be a bit too impatient, and more washes would probably be better. I have some laser cut parts (doors / windows) which are treated likewise, but without the primer. I find I can get the piece coloured, but with the detail still showing through, by effectively diluting with extra water. But care may be required to prevent warping. Hope that's helpful, let me know if there's anything I've missed. Cheers TONY Tony many thanks - I was planning something similar. the key issue I now face is making the laser cuts lighet in colour than the stone. I am trying to recreate the look of the goods shed as in recent photos so the yellow bricks are palest, then the mortar and then the stones are a mix of darker colurs: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Keane Posted May 20, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 20, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Andy Keane said: Tony many thanks - I was planning something similar. The key issue I now face is making the laser cuts lighter in colour than the stone. I am trying to recreate the look of the goods shed as in recent photos so the yellow bricks are palest, then the mortar and then the stones are a mix of darker colurs: ps - if you wanted some of my stonework pattern I could happily send you a DXF file of a patch. What I do is create patches and then merge them together, sometimes inverting patches to create the effect - but in the original art work each stone is made of three or four spline curves, each with three or more control points - very slow but I am pleased with the results and LCUT are brilliant at converting my drawings into bits of board and ply. They have been very patient with me - I cannot recommend them too highly. They say they may even make a kit and market it which would really put Helston on the map! Edited May 20, 2021 by Andy Keane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Keane Posted May 21, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 21, 2021 (edited) On a related topic do you have a fixed set of colours you use for the building paintwork (window frames, doors, canopies etc)? For example what about: https://www.stationcolours.info/great-western-railway/ Edited May 21, 2021 by Andy Keane Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now