Jump to content

A Cartoon of Helston(ish)


Mulgabill
 Share

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, Mulgabill said:

Andy

 

Your last posts have sent me to find  my copy of The Helston Branch; Oakwood Press No 184,

by Stanley C Jenkins.

 

Do you have a copy? If not, I would recommend it, it is my go to reference.

 

Doesn't answer everything, but most things are there.

 

 

In the above book, it quotes for 1914 a 517 class 0-4-2T 1481 and in 1921 no 1158 and 2-6-2T 4403

all as shedded at Helston.

 

For the BR period there were predominently 2-6-2Tanks, but with a variety appearing, implying from

Long Rock's allocation.

e.g.4500/ 4502/ 6/9/17/ 23/ 5/ 37/ 40/ 45/ 8/ 54/ 6/ 8/ 64/ 65/ 70/ 4/ 7/ 55/62

 

additionally in appendix 1 (some loco's) listed are 4401/ 3/ 5/ 6/ 8/ 9

 

(ironically not 7  which your man quoted)

 

 

 

Here I have to say my approach is to capture the overall look, rather than absolute fidelity. As

such I would look at proportions. Also we are used to tighter radii in models, than the scale

equivalent. So a large radius, can represent a rather larger prototypical figure, quite convincingly.

I would suggest the more important factor is that there is sufficient room for the loco shed area.

(To be honest, mine is a bit too constricted, hence the outbuilding at the front). Large radius points,

on the approach running lines, should help with that. As said before, smaller radius for the goods

lines, would help retain the feel of the original. 

 

But these are factors you will need to determine, as you will have to live with it for some time.

 

 

Personally I had assumed that Siphons would have been bound to have appeared, especially when

you include MOD specials for personel, with kit.

 

I have not entirely pinned down the appropriate hoppers for the serpentine workings, although

somebody suggested they were latterly an ex MR/LMS type. I have found no reference to the design

used as the rabbit van, so rightly or wrongly I have tended to use a fruit D. Although somebody on

here mentioned that there is a pic of an ex LNER Pidgeon Van working on the branch, which I could

see as having been purloined for that traffic, i the 50s, perhaps.

 

Any other thoughts, just ask, I'm rather enjoying having a reason to revisit my subject.

 

TONY

Tony

Many thanks for all this. I agree the overfeel is what counts. I am continuing to play with AnyTrack as well. I have also ordered a stack of books - these need to be smuggled in of course.

Dave47549 is also looking at what operated there. Not sure what sources of rolling stock to use. I am more interested in building the layout than the stock at the moment so will see what I can find on ebay etc to begin with.

And I will split my posts so as not to clutter yours with my meanderings and misunderstandings!

But it IS nice to get your imputs as a start this whole thing going again.

regards

Andy

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Tony

I think your copy of the book by Jenkins must differ from mine. In mine in Appendix 1 there are no 44xx engines listed at all? And the only 042Ts are 569 and 1163. Maybe your copy is a  later print? Mine is dated 1992.

Andy

Link to post
Share on other sites

Good morning Andy.

 

My copy is 2011.

 

Having checked this,  it caused me to look at a book I picked up

at the West Somerset just after the 1st lockdown. I had put it aside

as  an "early" copy (1968). I will now read through, just in case, as

strictly speaking it's different in that the title is The Hayle, West

Cornwall and Helston Railways by GH Anthony. (Oakwood

Press No 21 price 15s 0d net).

 

A quick scan reveals little specific detail re locos (only D6312 re

the last day workings).

 

The 2011 version of loco' papers 184 does refers to Dukedog as

being yellow engines were permitted, with 43xx 2-6-0s and 5101

2-6-2T being blue but permitted to work, limited to 20mph between

mp 6m40ch and 8m 60ch (presumably inc Cober viaduct).

Although it does go on to say they are unlikely to have worked the

route in peacetime.

 

Also in the text is58xx were used on the line on a sporadic basis in the later

GWR period, while 57xx are said to have been employed occasionally in the

BR era.

 

Appendix 1 lists

 

Churchward prototype 0-4-4T    34 / 55

517 class                          0-4-2T    69 / 1158 / 1163 / 1481

Metro                               2-4-0T    1496 / 3582

44 / 45xx  as listed previously

2021                                  0-6-0ST  2097 / 2148

850                                   0-6-0ST  859 / 992 / 1935 / 1943 / 1973 / 1989 / 2019

58xx                                 0-4-2T     5812

2700                                 0-6-0ST  2752

 

NB type 2                          B-B       D6308 / D6309 / D6312

 

Hope this helps, and it's all useful info to have on here, again thanks for taking

me back to my references.

 

TONY

 

p.s.  I also noticed a reference to an item in Railway World Nov 1964. I will try to

keep an eye open for that. Please let me know should you come across it first.

 

 

 

 

  • Informative/Useful 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, Mulgabill said:

Good morning Andy.

 

My copy is 2011.

 

Having checked this,  it caused me to look at a book I picked up

at the West Somerset just after the 1st lockdown. I had put it aside

as  an "early" copy (1968). I will now read through, just in case, as

strictly speaking it's different in that the title is The Hayle, West

Cornwall and Helston Railways by GH Anthony. (Oakwood

Press No 21 price 15s 0d net).

 

A quick scan reveals little specific detail re locos (only D6312 re

the last day workings).

 

The 2011 version of loco' papers 184 does refers to Dukedog as

being yellow engines were permitted, with 43xx 2-6-0s and 5101

2-6-2T being blue but permitted to work, limited to 20mph between

mp 6m40ch and 8m 60ch (presumably inc Cober viaduct).

Although it does go on to say they are unlikely to have worked the

route in peacetime.

 

Also in the text is58xx were used on the line on a sporadic basis in the later

GWR period, while 57xx are said to have been employed occasionally in the

BR era.

 

Appendix 1 lists

 

Churchward prototype 0-4-4T    34 / 55

517 class                          0-4-2T    69 / 1158 / 1163 / 1481

Metro                               2-4-0T    1496 / 3582

44 / 45xx  as listed previously

2021                                  0-6-0ST  2097 / 2148

850                                   0-6-0ST  859 / 992 / 1935 / 1943 / 1973 / 1989 / 2019

58xx                                 0-4-2T     5812

2700                                 0-6-0ST  2752

 

NB type 2                          B-B       D6308 / D6309 / D6312

 

Hope this helps, and it's all useful info to have on here, again thanks for taking

me back to my references.

 

TONY

 

p.s.  I also noticed a reference to an item in Railway World Nov 1964. I will try to

keep an eye open for that. Please let me know should you come across it first.

 

 

 

 

Tony

thanks for that - I will annotate my copy of the book with the extra detail. I wonder what else might have been updated - maybe I will keep an eye out for a later copy.

regards

Andy

Link to post
Share on other sites

16 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Tony

Not sure if you have seen this:

Home>Modelling Zone>Layout & Workbench Content>Modelling real locations>Revisiting Helston

No other followers but me as yet though.

Andy

 

Thanks Andy I hadn't come across this before, although it doesn't seem to have taken off

very much. And whilst I have managed to put together some ratio ground signals, I'm not

convinced my eyes would let me attempt to get them working. Indeed I've got a number

of old Mikes Models ones which haven't got very far yet.

 

I hope you are still making good progress.

 

All the best

TONY

  • Friendly/supportive 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Mulgabill said:

 

Thanks Andy I hadn't come across this before, although it doesn't seem to have taken off

very much. And whilst I have managed to put together some ratio ground signals, I'm not

convinced my eyes would let me attempt to get them working. Indeed I've got a number

of old Mikes Models ones which haven't got very far yet.

 

I hope you are still making good progress.

 

All the best

TONY

I am currently (rather slowly) adding the stonework to my shed model ready for the laser. I now also have the LCUT windows and have adjusted the CAD to suit these - they are slightly larger than the drawing but close enough so that is great. Hope to make the first pass at laser cutting next week. Also have ebayed up a 45xx and two coaches to have some stock to size against the drwaings prior to cutting. I am not going to risk an engine shed with a door that is too small a second time around.

regards

Andy

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Mulgabill said:

I'm not

convinced my eyes would let me attempt to get them working.

It's not too hard if you cheat Tony!

 

To save you searching back, here and in subsequent posts is how I do it. You could use the Ratio plastic discs instead of Scalelink etched ones and of course you can use whatever operating method you like (although I wouldn't recommend relays or solenoids):

 

 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

7 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

It's not too hard if you cheat Tony!

 

To save you searching back, here and in subsequent posts is how I do it. You could use the Ratio plastic discs instead of Scalelink etched ones and of course you can use whatever operating method you like (although I wouldn't recommend relays or solenoids):

 

 

 

Sounds like a challenge!

 

I had no plans to try for working ground , or indeed normal, signals. After finding the

bits too fidley to hold, or see, when putting the basic ratio kit together.

 

However your prompt has, sort of, tempted me. BUT it will not be taken up yet, as l

will definitely need new specs first, and it will depend on how I get on with my shakey

left hand. Could be something to play with at the caravan, when the trains are running

again.

 

Inspite of this waffle I am indeed grateful for the suggestion, and your continued

interest in my cartoon, John.

 

TONY

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
On 05/03/2017 at 13:52, Mulgabill said:

Well my last post stirred up a storm of.......... apathy.

 

I'll try to make some redress here, but first should say that nobody should worry. The works train shown was, in fact, engaged in replacing the dodgy point at the goods shed exit. This has now been done, although not painted or ballasted. I'm also aware that one feed wire has become detatched below the board, and the frog polarity lead got lost through the board. Therefore we now have all soldered above ground level, but work need to be completed below, which in turn needs the boards to be separated. That may have to wait until nearer the SWAG trip in April.

 

To carry on with the catch up photo wise following are some pics of the station build, starting on 11th Jan and progress 'till 16 Jan.

 

post-25234-0-45193800-1488721690.jpg

 

post-25234-0-01506500-1488721712.jpg

 

post-25234-0-99437800-1488721726.jpg

 

post-25234-0-53925600-1488721737.jpg

 

post-25234-0-13443500-1488721756.jpg

 

post-25234-0-90029700-1488721768.jpg

 

post-25234-0-49764400-1488721781.jpg

 

As ever comments or queries welcomed, and more to follow shortly, if you like these.

 

 

 

 

Tony

I am looking at the station building. It looks like you have used LCUT doors and windows. Are these custom version or part of their standard range?

regards

Andy

  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

On 12/03/2017 at 11:21, Mulgabill said:

As promised a few of the virtually complete building.

 

I envisage some toning down/ weathering to come, plus some station signage/adverts I ordered this week. Although I've not yet quite worked out how I'll actually fit them.

 

post-25234-0-82517400-1489317419.jpg

 

post-25234-0-04719100-1489317443.jpg

 

post-25234-0-24684100-1489317463.jpg

 

post-25234-0-83707500-1489317514.jpg

 

And approximately in situ on a visit to the layout -

 

post-25234-0-86789100-1489317555.jpg

 

Now need to get the platform paving sorted.

 

back soon I hope

 

 

Have had a response from LCUT saying they have already done Helston station windows!

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Andy Keane said:

Tony

I am looking at the station building. It looks like you have used LCUT doors and windows. Are these custom version or part of their standard range?

regards

Andy

 

Hi Andy - I am sorry I also owe you an answer from last week.

 

We did manage a few days at our caravan, reconnecting and cleaning up after

the protracted winter shutdown. Back home for a rest now!

 

So I have had  measure, and the gradient on Helstonish, shed point to bridge

would appear to be about 1 in 7 ( ie 10mm in 700mm), but it was done by eye

at the time.

 

As I recall the doors and windows were done by LCut as a custom job, although

it was, I think, more of a re-sizing of items they already did.

 

As it happens I pay palled an invoice for them this morning, for items for my

next project (low relief terrace of cottages, based on the row where we live).

These are true custom, windows and doors, based on my drawings. But I

also ordered some of their canopy brackets ( 00 18c) to replace those on

my station. They are not as detailed as the original, but are better than the

plain ones I fabricated originally.

 

All the best TONY

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

48 minutes ago, Mulgabill said:

 

Hi Andy - I am sorry I also owe you an answer from last week.

 

We did manage a few days at our caravan, reconnecting and cleaning up after

the protracted winter shutdown. Back home for a rest now!

 

So I have had  measure, and the gradient on Helstonish, shed point to bridge

would appear to be about 1 in 7 ( ie 10mm in 700mm), but it was done by eye

at the time.

 

As I recall the doors and windows were done by LCut as a custom job, although

it was, I think, more of a re-sizing of items they already did.

 

As it happens I pay palled an invoice for them this morning, for items for my

next project (low relief terrace of cottages, based on the row where we live).

These are true custom, windows and doors, based on my drawings. But I

also ordered some of their canopy brackets ( 00 18c) to replace those on

my station. They are not as detailed as the original, but are better than the

plain ones I fabricated originally.

 

All the best TONY

Yes they still have the plans for your order and are going to make me a set which really helps. But I am not going for a gradient on the track otherwise things will roll around when uncoupled!

Link to post
Share on other sites

By way of an update for regular readers.

 

It seems to have suddenly gone quiet on here for a number of reasons.

This leaves Dolly perplexed.

 

DSC_1412.JPG.04e70f491462e6c0e2d06cf2c6e8455f.JPG

 

With the lockdown easing we have been able to actually go to the caravan. But

in order that we could use it, I had to spend some uncomfortable time, underneath,

reconnecting water. Hence a few days away, and no real time for any modelling

whilst there.

 

When at home, I have been doing some work on a mk2 thatched cottage. Very

similar to mk1, and no pics yet.

 

I have also drawn up out-lines, and more importantly windows, for a row of 6

low relief cottages. Based on the row in which we live. The window / door

drawings were sent to L Cut Creative, and Jakub has sent them to me, within

a week. The walls have been cut, and loosely taped together. But the roofline

needs a bit of fettling, as I can't readily get to all the measurements. The

row will be 620mm long, unless I feel compelled to reduce the number of

cottages.

 

I've also been taking advantage of the better weather, and spent time in the

shed, restoring some longtime artefacts. Most of these were either stripped

of, or without, paint, years ago. (Although one was hideously restored with

chocolate lettering on cream base, by some idiot! In my favour I will point out,

that it was done withe the same paint, and at the same time, as our first house

was painted. That would be 1976 I think).

 

DSC_1411.JPG.4a4950362712666b640184eb8af41c61.JPG

 

This was the state of play 6th April, hopefully the big sign, the red wagon plate,

and the axlebox cover will get finished this week. Need some bauxite paint for

the LMS wagon plate, anybody got a suggestion what to use, I don't fancy doing

that from a Humbrol tinlet.

 

 

Hopefully I'll find some more to report soon, but theres likely to be fewer updates

now that we can get about more, if the weather warms up a bit.

 

Oh, and the magnetic coupling experiments have been suspended, I was wasting

too much time fiddling, and need more magnets for further tests.

 

And it looks like the club may reopen, in some way, from 17th May, having been closed

for over a year.

 

All the best

 

TONY

 

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Tony

 

Glad to see that life is getting more back to  'normal' for you.....

 

Enjoy the new opportunities.......I'm sure there will be plenty of rainy days coming up for modelling....

 

Cheers Bill

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Mulgabill said:

a row of 6 low relief cottages. Based on the row in which we live.

It must be interesting living in a low-relief cottage.

 

6 hours ago, Mulgabill said:

Need some bauxite paint for

the LMS wagon plate, anybody got a suggestion what to use

Halford's red primer?

Link to post
Share on other sites

17 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

It must be interesting living in a low-relief cottage.

 

Halford's red primer?

 

It would be interesting, with Kitchen, bathroom and Railway room,

all being in the back (unmodelled) bit. Although I have long term

thoughts to also build the rear half, and outbuildings. We shall

see whether that eventually happens.

 

The LMS wagon plate is in Halfords red primer, but doesn't quite

look the part, to me. Other suggestions are welcomed.

 

All the best

 

TONY

  • Interesting/Thought-provoking 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
On 02/05/2021 at 19:57, Mulgabill said:

 

It would be interesting, with Kitchen, bathroom and Railway room,

all being in the back (unmodelled) bit. Although I have long term

thoughts to also build the rear half, and outbuildings. We shall

see whether that eventually happens.

 

The LMS wagon plate is in Halfords red primer, but doesn't quite

look the part, to me. Other suggestions are welcomed.

 

All the best

 

TONY

Have you looked at floor paint - there is a very nice brick red version you can get which is very hard wearing.

Edited by Andy Keane
  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Where does all the time go? Since I retired, it seems to have shrunk ,

so that very little actually seems to get done.!

 

What muddling that has been done, has produced no pictorial

evidence.

 

The Mk 2 thatched cottage has not progressed. Having been usurped

by the terrace, which has been cut out, and the lower half scored to

represent the dressed stone of the real thing. Next, I need to create

a rougher texture for the top half, which is really a particularly

porous, local stone. (A bit like swiss cheese, but harder).

 

I have re-wheeled a K's low syphon, which has been persuaded to run

the length of the layout, in both directions, without falling off. Thats

the first time in approaching 50 yers, since it was built. Question is

did any last into nationallisation? let alone the 60's.

 

Some reasonably fine days, also means the sign, and wagon plates

have progressed. Again pics have not materialised, and there is a little

touching up to be done, but I may need some more black enamel,

and not the cheap stuff, of which I have a plentiful supply.

 

This shows the state of play when I last reported. That is all lettering had

1 coat, wheras all have been given a 2nd .

 

DSC_1417.JPG.a840486cddc59d0abdf928c95e1de3c4.JPG

 

The red backed wagon plate, at the same time,

 

DSC_1418.JPG.2bf8ba32e13039c061167946a8d92cee.JPG

 

This has been touched up, and is finished, if that's possible.

 

I will perhaps try to post some finished pics, and give their

background, and provenance.

 

Have also had another deviation, and drawn up "plans" for

making corridor connections. I found the fair price models

versions, very good, but too long, and tricky, to shorten.

Therefore, I suspect it may prove easier to make them with

fewer folds. We shall see.

 

And the MRC, may not now re-open, until later in June! In part

as it would avoid having to have 3 separate sessions for the

00 group. But, perhaps more importantly, because the new

alarm in the community assoc hall, is refusing access to the

facilities. (Not a good idea where I am probably classed as

one of the younger members). Wee'l await the outcome

with anticipation.

 

Cheers for now

 

TONY

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 27/04/2021 at 13:44, Mulgabill said:

 

Hi Andy - I am sorry I also owe you an answer from last week.

 

We did manage a few days at our caravan, reconnecting and cleaning up after

the protracted winter shutdown. Back home for a rest now!

 

So I have had  measure, and the gradient on Helstonish, shed point to bridge

would appear to be about 1 in 7 ( ie 10mm in 700mm), but it was done by eye

at the time.

 

As I recall the doors and windows were done by LCut as a custom job, although

it was, I think, more of a re-sizing of items they already did.

 

As it happens I pay palled an invoice for them this morning, for items for my

next project (low relief terrace of cottages, based on the row where we live).

These are true custom, windows and doors, based on my drawings. But I

also ordered some of their canopy brackets ( 00 18c) to replace those on

my station. They are not as detailed as the original, but are better than the

plain ones I fabricated originally.

 

All the best TONY

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Tony, as you have seen cut are hard at work. Can I ask what paints you use for your buildings. I am planning acrylics but am always keen to know what others use. Do you spray or brush?

best

andy

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Andy

 

The pics of yours pf the L Cut bits do look good. And I am impressed with your

random stone pattern. I wish I could do that in inkscape  which is what I attempt

to draw in).

 

With regard to paints, first I would caution that my buildings are card and DAS clay,

so may require different techniques.

 

But from memory, I started with a spray primer, either grey or red (Halfords).

 

Then Artists acrylics, mixed to get the approx colour I wanted. This was applied by

brush, and with plenty of water. Although I tend to be a bit too impatient, and more

washes would probably be better.

 

I have some laser cut parts (doors / windows) which are treated likewise, but without

the primer. I find I can get the piece coloured, but with the detail still showing through,

by effectively diluting with extra water. But care may be required to prevent warping.

 

Hope that's helpful, let me know if there's anything I've missed.

 

Cheers

TONY

  • Informative/Useful 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Mulgabill said:

Hi Andy

 

The pics of yours pf the L Cut bits do look good. And I am impressed with your

random stone pattern. I wish I could do that in inkscape  which is what I attempt

to draw in).

 

With regard to paints, first I would caution that my buildings are card and DAS clay,

so may require different techniques.

 

But from memory, I started with a spray primer, either grey or red (Halfords).

 

Then Artists acrylics, mixed to get the approx colour I wanted. This was applied by

brush, and with plenty of water. Although I tend to be a bit too impatient, and more

washes would probably be better.

 

I have some laser cut parts (doors / windows) which are treated likewise, but without

the primer. I find I can get the piece coloured, but with the detail still showing through,

by effectively diluting with extra water. But care may be required to prevent warping.

 

Hope that's helpful, let me know if there's anything I've missed.

 

Cheers

TONY

Tony

many thanks - I was planning something similar. the key issue I now face is making the laser cuts lighet in colour than the stone. I am trying to recreate the look of the goods shed as in recent photos so the yellow bricks are palest, then the mortar and then the stones are a mix of darker colurs:24982991377_b9acd98e39_o.jpg.e4c18f31ce55d1736177a052e5180c40.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Tony

many thanks - I was planning something similar. The key issue I now face is making the laser cuts lighter in colour than the stone. I am trying to recreate the look of the goods shed as in recent photos so the yellow bricks are palest, then the mortar and then the stones are a mix of darker colurs:24982991377_b9acd98e39_o.jpg.e4c18f31ce55d1736177a052e5180c40.jpg

ps - if you wanted some of my stonework pattern I could happily send you a DXF file of a patch. What I do is create patches and then merge them together, sometimes inverting patches to create the effect - but in the original art work each stone is made of three or four spline curves, each with three or more control points - very slow but I am pleased with the results and LCUT are brilliant at converting my drawings into bits of board and ply. They have been very patient with me - I cannot recommend them too highly. They say they may even make a kit and market it which would really put Helston on the map!

Edited by Andy Keane
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...