Pennine MC Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 But, for example, all the Park Royals "went late" from LMR to Scotland (in 1960) and then had SC numbers. Well, I wouldnt call 1960 'late', but fair comment, I take your point Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliepetty Posted January 7, 2011 Share Posted January 7, 2011 I suppose when you compare the total cost of buying, assembling, detailing, painting, interior, motorising one of your DC kits single units Charlie then it puts HJ prices into perspective. Correct, I agree, the million dollar problem is if you get a product made in the UK, with components made in the UK & an Australian motor unit its a fair bet the manufacturing costs are higher, this is a sad fact of UK Manufacturing life, thus we have REALTRACK models, if you cannot beat them, join them!! Still think that Hornby & Bachmann quality is far better at lower costs, I hope the Heljan Railbus is good but the list price should be nearer to £90.00 Charlie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 I hope the Heljan Railbus is good but the list price should be nearer to £90.00 So what was wrong with the £88 being charged by Hattons? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
frobisher Posted January 8, 2011 Share Posted January 8, 2011 So what was wrong with the £88 being charged by Hattons? Charlie was talking list price/RRP... If it was say £90 then Hattons would probably be knocking them out at £75-80. He's also probably saying that knowing Realtrack's costings that's where he could have placed an RRP for an equivalent if Realtrack were producing it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 Well, I wouldnt call 1960 'late', but fair comment, I take your point Maybe only the four ex-WR AC Cars, then, which went LATE (that is around 1966) to Scotland. From CLOSE association with W79976 I can say categorically that it never CARRIED an SC prefix although I don't doubt that it was ALLOCATED a Scottish prefixed number and may even have appeared on the books (including the ABC) as SC79976. However, the one side panel still in original green still shows the W quite clearly without a trace of an SC. Visitors to Loughborough GC, where the railbus now resides behind the loco shed, will be able to see the W79976 lettering still unaltered inside both cabs. As an aside, I know enthusiasts like these things to be neat (item transferred to another region = prefix changed immediately) but in reality they weren't. Coaching stock and DMUs moved between regions but didn't tend to get re-prefixed until they were 'shopped' - unlike steam locos where you could simply swap shedcode plates (though that didn't always happen either). Is there any concrete evidence that railbuses were ever shopped in their ten year career? W79977 was shopped at Swindon and repainted after accident damage but I suspect the other ACs were never shopped. They retained their original livery with 'whiskers' till the end. W79976 had 138,000 miles on the clock before its clock was stolen while at the Colne Valley Railway. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windjabbers Posted February 10, 2011 Share Posted February 10, 2011 just looking ath the Hattons website they list two versions with the speed whiskers. 8700 Railbus E79960 in early light green with speed whiskers. 8701 Railbus E79962 in dark green with speed whiskers When did they carry these two verions of this livery? Were they all delivered in the light green? If so when were they repainted? Would welcome comments, just want to make sure I order the right one. Have received this reply from Kim at Heljan... 8700 is the preserved one which is in the lighter green livery. All the others are in the dark green which depicts the class in BR service. There is some dispute amongst enthusiasts as to whether any of these railbuses ran in light green when in BR service; it's difficult to tell as the majority of photos are black & white, not colour! Hopefully this helps you..... Best WIshes David 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
00ERmissus Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Have received this reply from Kim at Heljan... 8700 is the preserved one which is in the lighter green livery. All the others are in the dark green which depicts the class in BR service. There is some dispute amongst enthusiasts as to whether any of these railbuses ran in light green when in BR service; it's difficult to tell as the majority of photos are black & white, not colour! Hopefully this helps you..... Thanks for that..............I've found an interesting photo of E79961 at Stratford TMD in April 1958, presumably just delivered. It appears to be in a light green livery but without speed whiskers. I wonder if it went into service like this or had the whiskers painted on beforehand? If not, it would be nice if Heljan could supply some of their light green ones without. http://www.flickr.co...57604635404420/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cctransuk Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Thanks for that..............I've found an interesting photo of E79961 at Stratford TMD in April 1958, presumably just delivered. It appears to be in a light green livery but without speed whiskers. I wonder if it went into service like this or had the whiskers painted on beforehand? If not, it would be nice if Heljan could supply some of their light green ones without. http://www.flickr.co...57604635404420/ Unless there has been some major colour distortion in this image, I'm sure that this isn't either BR DMU Light or Dark Green. Rather, I would suggest, it is W&M's interpretation of BR DMU Dark Green. I didn't see any of these railbuses during BR service so I can't comment further, but perhaps those that did can say whether this photo matches the colour in which they ran in service. Regards, John Isherwood. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
00ERmissus Posted February 11, 2011 Share Posted February 11, 2011 Unless there has been some major colour distortion in this image, I'm sure that this isn't either BR DMU Light or Dark Green. Rather, I would suggest, it is W&M's interpretation of BR DMU Dark Green. I didn't see any of these railbuses during BR service so I can't comment further, but perhaps those that did can say whether this photo matches the colour in which they ran in service. That’s an interesting theory, John. I didn’t see them in service either. In fact, I wasn’t even aware there was a question mark over this now ‘alleged’ early livery until I read the thread earlier. Given that this may appear to be so, let me throw this in the ring: Could what people refer to as early light green livery in fact just be the shade WuM delivered and BR tested them in (as in the photo) prior to them being repainted in Brunswick Green? In ‘The Saffron Walden Branch’ by P. Paye, it states that the first two Railbuses – No’s E79960/E79961, travelled via the Zeebrugge to Harwich train ferry and were delivered to Stratford on 31 March, 1958. The photo is dated as 1 April, 1958 and was therefore taken as soon as E79961 had been taken out of its box and before the optional speed whisker transfers had been applied! So as you say, this colour was applied by the manufacturer whatever shade it may have been. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted February 12, 2011 Share Posted February 12, 2011 Railway Bylines Summer Special No. 2 has a photo feature on the W&M railbuses, mainly compiled from early publicity photos shortly after delivery at Stratford and while running trials on the Witham-Maldon branch, before speed whiskers were applied. From the tonal range and mild vignetting of the images reproduced, I would infer that the originals were in colour, and indeed the colour image linked to on Flickr in an earlier post is to be found within the photo feature. Interestingly, Railway Bylines gives the date of this image (and others in the same spot) as June 1958, and draws attention to the towing instructions painted in white on the bufferbeam - which are stated to have been added a short while after delivery. On the other hand, a previous double page spread appears to show E79961 in exactly the same position at Stratford, in the company of Brush Type 2 D5501, that image being dated to April 1958. Certainly the photos of the railbuses trialling on the Witham-Maldon branch are without speed whiskers, and it may well be that these hadn't been added by June 1958, if some of the pictures taken at Stratford indeed date to that month (which I now doubt). Paye (op cit) notes that some railbuses were sent to Cambridge in April 1958 for testing on the Saffron Waldon and Mildenhall branches. Two of the Witham-Maldon publicity photographs were used to promote the new service/timetable on the Saffron Walden branch, which I can confirm (from signal box records) was inaugurated on the date advertised, Monday 7th July 1958. While I have collected numerous photographs and illustrations in books of the W&M railbuses in service, early photographs of them on the Saffron Walden branch seem to be rare and I'm not aware of seeing any without speed whiskers or warning panels. It may be worth mentioning that when the railbuses acquired their yellow warning panels, there were two sizes of "small" panels. E79961/2/4 had larger panels than E79960/3 . Hopefully these represent the different styles modelled by Heljan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
00ERmissus Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 While I have collected numerous photographs and illustrations in books of the W&M railbuses in service, early photographs of them on the Saffron Walden branch seem to be rare and I'm not aware of seeing any without speed whiskers or warning panels. It may be worth mentioning that when the railbuses acquired their yellow warning panels, there were two sizes of "small" panels. E79961/2/4 had larger panels than E79960/3 . Hopefully these represent the different styles modelled by Heljan. Many thanks for that. Yes, I note from the Paye book that there are photo's representing two sizes of small yellow panels on the railbuses. Given the amount of information that you have at your disposal, can you shed any more light on the 'early' green livery issue? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Given the amount of information that you have at your disposal, can you shed any more light on the 'early' green livery issue? No, if I had that information I would have replied earlier in this thread. Nearly all photos I've seen are in black and white and relate to "in service" times, by which time all appear to have carried the standard dark green - and no personal recollections either, I wasn't born when they were first introduced! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted February 13, 2011 Share Posted February 13, 2011 Rather, I would suggest, it is W&M's interpretation of BR DMU Dark Green. I didn't see any of these railbuses during BR service so I can't comment further, but perhaps those that did can say whether this photo matches the colour in which they ran in service. Regards, John Isherwood. Here's one of the AC railbus after a year in sevice in the early green which according to Haresnape where also in Malachite green. http://www.railbrit.co.uk/imageenlarge/imagecomplete2.php?id=31201 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted March 2, 2011 Share Posted March 2, 2011 Hello All, There's a good photo of a pre-production model here: http://www.railexclusive.com/cms/uploads/thumb/Railcar-1.jpg Initial comments: - The buffer shanks appear to be too long - The metal rails across the seat backs look to be seperately-fitted from wire - a nice touch - The windscreen wiper is moulded into the glazing - Difficult to tell if the body is the right shape in such bright colours! - Rivet and body panelling detail looks excellent - Not clear from the photo how much of the interior is taken up by the motor, but it's certainly way below window height - The w-irons/axleguards aren't as prominent on the real thing - Let's hope the distinctive aluminium hopper windows are picked out in silver paint For comparison, there's a good photo of (the real) M79964 here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Railbus_79964_at_York_Railfest.JPG Cheers, Will PS. I don't know if it ever carried the M prefix when in service in the Buxton area, but it carries it in preservation on the Keighley & Worth Valley line. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dcroz Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 News Update taken from Heljan website - dated 4th August 2011: 'OO' Waggon & Maschinenbau railbus The first running samples have been received and are currently undergoing testing. The first releases are expected in November and we are close to selling out, so if you need to place your order, please do so now to avoid disappointment. 'OO' AC Cars railbus The second vehicle in our proposed railbus series has now proceeded to tooling and again advance orders are welcomed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 and must admit surprise and disappointment that there have been no photos posted of the preserved ones on this thread. I know some have been, but here's a few more. http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/Allinthedetails/DMUs/E79960-Railbus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Hattons advising that it will be available on or after 1st Nov 2011 subject normal possible delays. That will be the "normal delays" that equate February with November then? Still the £reserve£ has been utilised on other things and so that gives me time to save up again till NovemberFebruary. How does it go "all things come to those who wait"? I know some have been, but here's a few more. http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/Allinthedetails/DMUs/E79960-Railbus Link doesn't work for me - its trying to do something my browser and security package doesn't like. Home page is ok but all the galleries go blank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supaned Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Just a thought on the lighter shade of green paint. Did W & M use a German railways shade as that was readily available , rather than BR issue green? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 ... 'OO' AC Cars railbus The second vehicle in our proposed railbus series has now proceeded to tooling and again advance orders are welcomed. Good oh, that's the Western and Scottish bases covered then B) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigwelsh Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 Link doesn't work for me - its trying to do something my browser and security package doesn't like. Home page is ok but all the galleries go blank. It uses lightboxes. http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/Allinthedetails/DMUs/E79960-Railbus/i-LzZDd64/0/XL/E79960Sheringham20042011-XL.jpg http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/Allinthedetails/DMUs/E79960-Railbus/i-cf3bHHH/0/XL/E79960Sheringham20042011-1-XL.jpg Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted August 4, 2011 Share Posted August 4, 2011 It uses lightboxes. Ah another piece of untrusted trickery (broken software!) Thanks for re-posting the image links - they worked fine. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JZ Posted October 6, 2011 Author Share Posted October 6, 2011 Hello All, There's a good photo of a pre-production model here: http://www.railexclu...b/Railcar-1.jpg For comparison, there's a good photo of (the real) M79964 here: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Railbus_79964_at_York_Railfest.JPG Cheers, Will Initial comments: - The buffer shanks appear to be too long. Not sure, it could be the colour of the plstic that makes them stand out. - The metal rails across the seat backs look to be seperately-fitted from wire - a nice touch. Yes - The windscreen wiper is moulded into the glazing. With such a fine basic wiper, it may be too frail to have as a seperate part - Difficult to tell if the body is the right shape in such bright colours! True - Rivet and body panelling detail looks excellent. Yes - Not clear from the photo how much of the interior is taken up by the motor, but it's certainly way below window height. Where will the decoder fit - The w-irons/axleguards aren't as prominent on the real thing. I think it will look less prominent with black underframe a weathering - Let's hope the distinctive aluminium hopper windows are picked out in silver paint. It will spoil it if they aren't Overall a nice looking piece of kit. I look forward to running it in Dorset And worse still, I will run a trailing load as they often did in Germany. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Windjabbers Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Asked at Warley on delivery date as I think it was ment to be November. Heljen now saying first quarter of 2012. Best Wishes David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWJ Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Asked at Warley on delivery date as I think it was ment to be November. Heljen now saying first quarter of 2012. Thanks for the update David - I was hoping there might be a painted sample (or even models for sale) at Warley. Itching to get my hands on one of these! Incidentally, a wide range of prices is being quoted by various model shops, so I would recommend 'shopping around' for the best price. Regards, Will Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigherb Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Phew, my bank balance needs a bit of time to recover. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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