50t Warwell Wagon in OO Gauge

[GreenGiraffe22]

For anyone modelling a more period layout (1940's) the War-wells were used exclusively to carry Sherman tanks in rakes of 9 with old brake coaches each end for the tank crews and a van or two for tools and parts and ramp wagons at each end of the war wells. Shermans were higher relative to British tanks and they needed the extra ht that a warwell wagon well bottom provides. Turrets were generally pointed to the back of a train irrespective to vehicle posture and barrels strapped down to the body.

 

British Churchill tanks were not as high and could be loaded onto first world war built War-Flat wagons, again 9 or 10 in a rake. Or 2 Stuart tanks as they were smaller. Any spare space was used up for small soft skin vehicles. It would be unusual to mix war well and war flat wagon types at this time. Churchill side body parts were removed to fit the railway guage and chains were fastened at both ends of each vehicle in a X format to brace the vehicle in the stowed position..

 

 

Really useful information, thanks I'd probably have to do a scaled down rake of 5 on my layout

[Swindon 123]

They didn't always carry tanks or road vehicles.

95530 PFB [bBR3-28] by Paul James, on Flickr

 

Although not strictly relavent to the topic, a detail shot of the decks of a couple of empty warflats, for weathering purposes.

DBR11-032 by Paul James, on Flickr

 

Paul J.

[Lyddrail]

I picked up my 2 Warwells from the Post Office today. Oh dear! I assume they were meant to apply markings to the wagon?

It is not a great concern to me as I am converting them to crane wagons, should there be a discount for no markings?

Cheers.

[No Decorum]

My word! Looking at the photographs on the Hatton’s site, there don’t seem to be any markings. Yet Hatton’s cites a running number of ADRW96501. I can’t imagine even a Civil Engineer’s wagon running around with no identification.

[No Decorum]

I have just contacted Hatton’s and been told that the real one didn’t have any markings. Well I never! Prototype for everything!

[hmrspaul]

I have just contacted Hatton’s and been told that the real one didn’t have any markings. Well I never! Prototype for everything!

Not one I've helped with

 

Not hard work to check before complaining The writing is on the superstructure, which is up to the modeller to add http://www.ontrackplant.com/otp/96501 - three photos here.

 

Paul

[Pete Goss]

Hi Pete,

 

it may well do just as you say but I believe the main reason for the cradle is to help the Warrior clear lineside infrastructure (particularly platform edges).

 

Hopefully now the warwells are released someone will resurrect either the BW Models or Cromwell Models Warrior in 1/76. I'm not convinced that a 1/72 Warrior is going to look sensible given how tight the clearances are in reality, although I have a Trumpeter one to build up and test.

 

Regards,

 

Stu

 

Yes, That makes sense.

 

regards

[Pete Goss]

Really useful information, thanks I'd probably have to do a scaled down rake of 5 on my layout

 

Yes, I had 6 Warflat wagons on the Rowlands Castle layout, along with a brake third SR coach at both ends, a scratch built ramp wagon and an old SR tools van.

 

For your interest here is a picture of Warwell wagons with Sherman tank loads. This picture was included in a booklet slightly post war, so late 1940's

 

regards

 

Pete

[GreenGiraffe22]

Yes, I had 6 Warflat wagons on the Rowlands Castle layout, along with a brake third SR coach at both ends, a scratch built ramp wagon and an old SR tools van.

 

For your interest here is a picture of Warwell wagons with Sherman tank loads. This picture was included in a booklet slightly post war, so late 1940's

 

regards

 

Pete

Oh Rowlands Castle is yours? Photos of that layout have provided so much inspiration and useful information for me, my layout is set more in the South East but I imagine railway traffic was much the same? When I decided to embark on a wartime layout I didn't realise how difficult it was going to be to research with next to no photos and so many railway websites seem to jump form the 30s to 1947 as if nothing of any significance happened in between... I've said many times I'm greatful for the sudden influx of RTR wartime rolling stock and abundance of locos in wartime black, even if we could do with a few more ex LBSCR / SECR over all the ex LSWR

 

I just have the one warwell at the moment but using PLVs for now I've made a start at trying to create something prototypical, I reckon I could just squeeze 5 Warwells in between the PLVs

 

 

 

I'll be interested to see how Oxford Rails warwells compare

 

Edit, even though Hattons & Oxford Rail are both doing No.1 will still be able to have 5 with different running numbers, 55 & (34?) from Hattons and 36 & revised SR version from OR

Edited June 26, 2017 by GreenGiraffe22

[MRDBLUE17]

Hi everyone,

 

I collected my pair of 2000's Warwells from the post Office Depot today which arrived in a well packed boxed as usual from Hattons.

 

The first thing you notice when you take them out the box is the weight. They feel a nice solid quality wagon. There is a lot of fine detail, rivets, the wood grain, securing points and a lot of fine printing detail as well. One had a loose buffer and wheel set not inserted correctly. Both easy to fix which actually made me realise just how many items are fitted, sprung buffers, the end jacks and even the thin decking plates. Even underneath with the wire pipe runs and tanks. I know this version should have wider plates and protection over the buffers but straight out of the box they are a superb model and hope are a success for Hattons.

 

I've only given them a quick run on Rannoch, not sure why the Glen Douglas working was this far north! They run very smoothly with no problems on my tight fiddle yard curves and are an interesting wagon to add into MOD workings. Hope you like the pictures and Dave feel free if you want to use them.

 

Thanks

Mark

[PhilJ W]

Any thoughts on what sort of locomotives were used to haul the wartime trains of Warwells? I have seen a photograph of a rake loaded with Sherman tanks hauled by a Metropolitan Bo-Bo electric.

[Lyddrail]

I have just contacted Hatton’s and been told that the real one didn’t have any markings. Well I never! Prototype for everything!

 

Thanks for asking them, I would like to see a photo proving that, all the pictures I have seen show it as a Power Supply crane, but I can believe it was different before conversion.

Cheers. 

[JSpencer]

My pair arrived today, first two pics without load are with Hattons Austerity Royal Engineer (what could be more apt to pull Hattons Warwells?), name plates have been removed from loco for fear of loosing them in the dust tornado that passes the layout time to time!

 

Remaining pics are with the LMR USA tank loco, loaded with a Dragon M4A4 (Sherman V) Firefly and an M4A2 (Sherman III) again be Dragon, the tank models are 1/72nd so slightly over scale.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Running qualities on these wagons are excellent, handling any track work I throw at them with the loco pushing or pulling through sharp turns, points and changes of gradients, unlike the old light Mainline Well Wagons that were too light and had be lightly loaded when shunting.

 

The buffers are correctly sprung too, can't remember seeing sprung buffers on a UK RTR OO gauge wagon before.

Very happy with them.

 

Edit: Hattons Dave, please feel free to use the pictures.

Edited June 26, 2017 by JSpencer

[Pete Goss]

Oh Rowlands Castle is yours? Photos of that layout have provided so much inspiration and useful information for me, my layout is set more in the South East but I imagine railway traffic was much the same? When I decided to embark on a wartime layout I didn't realise how difficult it was going to be to research with next to no photos and so many railway websites seem to jump form the 30s to 1947 as if nothing of any significance happened in between... I've said many times I'm greatful for the sudden influx of RTR wartime rolling stock and abundance of locos in wartime black, even if we could do with a few more ex LBSCR / SECR over all the ex LSWR

 

I just have the one warwell at the moment but using PLVs for now I've made a start at trying to create something prototypical, I reckon I could just squeeze 5 Warwells in between the PLVs

 

20170626_175611.jpg

 

20170626_175843.jpg

 

I'll be interested to see how Oxford Rails warwells compare

 

Edit, even though Hattons & Oxford Rail are both doing No.1 will still be able to have 5 with different running numbers, 55 & (34?) from Hattons and 36 & revised SR version from OR

 

My goodness, suddenly all the Shermans are appearing,  good stuff. They all look good sat on their Warwell wagons.

 

Yes, the Rowlands Castle layout is now with the Rowlands Castle Heritage Centre and is currently on public display at Stanstead House in Rowlands Castle village (Hampshire). 

 

If you require further technical information about wartime activity that I may have previously researched for my project as then, please ask.

 

best regards

 

Pete

[GreenGiraffe22]

Could do with a Hunslet Austerity in as-built WD condition...there's enough new tools that have been made recently

[GreenGiraffe22]

My goodness, suddenly all the Shermans are appearing, good stuff. They all look good sat on their Warwell wagons.

 

Yes, the Rowlands Castle layout is now with the Rowlands Castle Heritage Centre and is currently on public display at Stanstead House in Rowlands Castle village (Hampshire).

 

If you require further technical information about wartime activity that I may have previously researched for my project as then, please ask.

 

best regards

 

Pete

Thanks will have to check that out at sone point! I'll PM you sometime so as not to hijack this thread, my layout thread is Wartime Sussex 1943ish, long overdue for an update

[No Decorum]

Thanks for asking them, I would like to see a photo proving that, all the pictures I have seen show it as a Power Supply crane, but I can believe it was different before conversion.

Cheers. 

Hatton’s offered to dig out a photograph but I declined the helpful offer. I think they’re busy enough as it is!

[JSpencer]

Oh Rowlands Castle is yours? Photos of that layout have provided so much inspiration and useful information for me, my layout is set more in the South East but I imagine railway traffic was much the same? When I decided to embark on a wartime layout I didn't realise how difficult it was going to be to research with next to no photos and so many railway websites seem to jump form the 30s to 1947 as if nothing of any significance happened in between... I've said many times I'm greatful for the sudden influx of RTR wartime rolling stock and abundance of locos in wartime black, even if we could do with a few more ex LBSCR / SECR over all the ex R

In wartime, you would not have been allowed to go around photographing stuff freely which explains the huge shortful of photographs.

 

Careless talk (and photos) costs lives!

 

It is not like today whereby the news and social media tell everyone what will be moving where and attacking what. Some of the things I see on the news leave me stunned and fearful for people soon to be facing hard situations. Only last month I saw a policeman saying on TV "we have rapid response units for all tourist areas but everywhere else is poorly covered". Such info is very useful in the wrong hands.

In WWII, things were highly censored and a spying charge meant certain death, so you could not just takes pictures such as trains without proper approval.

Edited June 26, 2017 by JSpencer

[GreenGiraffe22]

Fancy not taking into consideration people who might want to model the war 70 years later

[bescotbeast]

The 3 (later4) ton army lorries allways travelled with the tilt removed, even on Warwell and Lomac wagons. The reason being that they were still out of gauge with the tilt up.

Thanks for confirming this, I had my suspicions from looking at pictures but wasn't sure. I've got a Airfix Bedford 4 tonner on it's way from theifbay as a load for one of the Warwells.

[Southernman46]

I have just contacted Hatton’s and been told that the real one didn’t have any markings. Well I never! Prototype for everything!

 

The real one certainly had markings on it and also had a HAIB crane on it cos we used to use it out of Horsham to deliver items of electrification plant .............

Edited June 27, 2017 by Southernman46

[Trains&armour]

For anyone modelling a more period layout (1940's) the War-wells were used exclusively to carry Sherman tanks in rakes of 9 with old  brake coaches each end for the tank crews and a van or two for tools and parts and ramp wagons at each end of the war wells. Shermans were higher relative to British tanks and they needed the extra ht that a warwell wagon well bottom provides.  Turrets were generally pointed to the back of a train irrespective to vehicle posture and barrels strapped down to the body.

 

British Churchill tanks were not as high and could be loaded onto first world war built War-Flat wagons, again 9 or 10 in a rake.  Or 2 Stuart tanks as they were smaller. Any spare space was used up for small soft skin vehicles. It would be unusual to mix war well and war flat wagon types at this time. Churchill side body parts were removed to fit the railway guage and chains were fastened at both ends of each vehicle in a X format to brace the vehicle in the stowed position..

 

Tanks were loaded either horizontally from a side platform or end dock or with the use of a small Ramp-wagon. Ramp wagons were generally detested as they took a lot of time to set up and a few loose sleepers were required to protect rails at the bottom of the ramp. Tanks would rumble along the full length of the train to dis-embark or embark.

 

Looking at the more modern pictures the tank seems to be sat on a raised cradle. Presumably this eases the rise and drop of the tank travel as it droves along the train?  Not sure. 

 

If tanks didn't have very far to travel they would go by road under their own steam. During the1940's etc various mileages were laid down for different tank types and that determined whether they travelled by rail or not.

 

cheers

Suggestions for some alternatives to the Sherman:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/115836-hattons-warwell-wagon-in-oo-and-o-gauge/page-3&do=findComment&comment=2469109

(although very much Sherman related.)

 

And for a somewhat  cheaper but still prototypical  train with warflats or warwells. You'll  only need to buy three warwells instead of nine. Headquarters train: 

http://www.railalbum.co.uk/railway-wagons/military/ww2-warflat-train-gwr-1.htm

Although warwells are not shown in the diagram, an British armoured unit equipped with Shermans (and more than half of them were), would have needed warwells instead of warflats.

 

Only thing missing now are ramp wagons. Over to you, Hatton's...

[gwrrob]

Where was this train heading please ?

[SDJR7F88]

A short running session featuring the BR Engineering Yellow Version. Must say they really are stunning! Never had such a weighty wagon before! 

P.S You may need sun glasses for the video!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yMCD_HUDvWQ

Edited June 27, 2017 by SDJR7F88

[SDJR7F88]

Oops missed attachment, sorted now

Edited June 27, 2017 by SDJR7F88