50t Warwell Wagon in OO Gauge

[hmrspaul]

A rake of these would be nice with a suitable load. I will be getting some of the 80s versions. Now to find some photos.

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=warwell

 

I would welcome some additions to the comments to identify the various loads.

 

Nice to see the bogie bolsters being done, I hope Hattons change their minds and do these in 7mm as well http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/warwellbogiebolster

 

I agree a Ramp wagon would be useful, we measured on but at least one is surviving http://www.ws.vintagecarriagestrust.org/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=9256    I suspect they would be expensive to model. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/modaramp

 

Paul

Edited October 19, 2016 by hmrspaul

[PhilJ W]

The Lackenby breakdown van looks interesting.

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/?q=warwell

 

I would welcome some additions to the comments to identify the various loads.

 

Nice to see the bogie bolsters being done, I hope Hattons change their minds and do these in 7mm as well http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/warwellbogiebolster

 

I agree a Ramp wagon would be useful, we measured on but at least one is surviving http://www.ws.vintagecarriagestrust.org/ws/WagonInfo.asp?Ref=9256    I suspect they would be expensive to model. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/modaramp

 

Paul

[Clock O' The North]

Just A Quick Question, Would a Centurion Mk3 fit in the loading Gauge on a Warwell? If not could anyone supply a partial or full list of what could be carried on these during the late 50s to early 60s?

[Arthur]

The load on this one

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/warwell/h2e5c5f6b#h2e5c5f6b

 

Is a Muir Hill AS5000 loader/backactor. A good few saw service with the Army.

 

And this

 

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/warwell/h28aa50f7#h28aa50f7

 

An Alvis Saracen FV603 APC. Introduced in the 50's, they became very familiar to the public as they were widely used during The Troubles in Northern Ireland. They share a basic chassis with other Alvis vehicles of the day, Saladin and Stalwart.

 

 

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Edited October 20, 2016 by Arthur

[Fat Controller]

Just A Quick Question, Would a Centurion Mk3 fit in the loading Gauge on a Warwell? If not could anyone supply a partial or full list of what could be carried on these during the late 50s to early 60s?

No; the original Centurion was out-of-gauge. The only tank of that era would have been the Comet, which survived until 1958. However, that still leaves all the smaller AFVs, such as Saladins and Saracens, along with RE plant,and larger items of 'soft-skin' transport, which would have been out-of-gauge on Warflats.

[Leadmill]

Now that BW models has gone, and the older suitable JB/airfix kits (Bedford, Scorpion/Scimitar) are like hens teeth. Where is a good source for suitable loads from 70's to 90's? Apart from Land Rovers.

[PaulRhB]

Well the Airfix or S&S models Scorpion or Scimitar. S&S do 432's,

Airfix and S&S do Bedford 4ton lorries etc.

Airfix 1 ton land rover FC truck.

[Barry O]

No; the original Centurion was out-of-gauge. The only tank of that era would have been the Comet, which survived until 1958. However, that still leaves all the smaller AFVs, such as Saladins and Saracens, along with RE plant,and larger items of 'soft-skin' transport, which would have been out-of-gauge on Warflats.

All Centurions were out of gauge in the UK . They were built (like Chieftain, Challenger 1 and  Challenger 2 MBTs and derivatives) to meet the European Loading Gauge as defined within a STANAG - unfortunately I no longer have my copy of this.  You can use Land rovers, ferrets, CVR(T), CVR(W) as well as  a number of other wheeled vehicle in the UK..

 

Some are available from Gram Models .. Post War British MB1 Carrier Infantry FV432 MkII £15.05 MB2 Car Armoured Ferret MkII £10.50 MB3 Car Armoured Ferret MkI £ 8.55 MB3a As MB3 but hollow for detailing £ 9.75 MB4 Carrier Infantry FV432 MK1 £15.05 MB5 Stalwart MkII MB6 Humber Pig 

 

http://www.gramodels.co.uk/docs/GRA_Nov2015_Brochure.pdf

 

Obviously if Airfix bring back the scorpion kit it would help as you can use the chassis to provide a number of the CVR(T) family

[South-East Rail]

This is great news, finally an RTR wagon to carry my Revell Warriors! Interesting that Hatton's is being so secretive about the manufacturer (unless I'm being blind!).

 

On another note, does anyone have drawings/photographs of the cradles used to carry Warriors on these wagons?

 

Ed

[Ben04uk]

Atlas Editions do a good M4 Sherman Tank suitable for the WWII era in 1:72 scale as part of their Ultimate Tank Collection but still struggling to find any suitable tanks for the late 1960s/1970s which could be used as a load.

[olivegreen]

This is great news, finally an RTR wagon to carry my Revell Warriors! Interesting that Hatton's is being so secretive about the manufacturer (unless I'm being blind!).

 

On another note, does anyone have drawings/photographs of the cradles used to carry Warriors on these wagons?

 

Ed

 

I'm not sure why anyone would expect Hattons to reveal that information. Hattons sells you the goods - where Hattons procure them from is surely Hattons' business. Do we generally expect Marks and Spencer, for example, to reveal the name of the manufacturer of their (largely foreign-made… see another current thread on that!) clothes, but also food, furniture and so on?

 

 

(Minor edit)

Edited October 22, 2016 by olivegreen

[steve fay]

I'd like to see the bogie bolster version in 7mm as well

[PaulRhB]

Atlas Editions do a good M4 Sherman Tank suitable for the WWII era in 1:72 scale as part of their Ultimate Tank Collection but still struggling to find any suitable tanks for the late 1960s/1970s which could be used as a load.

60-70's there is no 'big' tank just the 432's etc in the 60's with the scorpion appearing in the 70's. You can use armoured cars, lorries and stalwarts in both those era. Remember a lot of our big armour was over in Germany in that period.

[rembrow]

This is great news, finally an RTR wagon to carry my Revell Warriors! Interesting that Hatton's is being so secretive about the manufacturer (unless I'm being blind!).

 

On another note, does anyone have drawings/photographs of the cradles used to carry Warriors on these wagons?

 

Ed

 

Have linked to the wrong post, apologies to South-East Rail

Edited October 22, 2016 by rembrow

[rembrow]

Atlas Editions do a good M4 Sherman Tank suitable for the WWII era in 1:72 scale as part of their Ultimate Tank Collection but still struggling to find any suitable tanks for the late 1960s/1970s which could be used as a load.

 

As has been mentioned, the Alvis Scorpion is the best contender for the 1970s, classified as a light/scout tank, and was deployed widely until retired in the 1990s. Airfix used to make a 1/76 scale kit, no longer available, but presumably can be obtained second hand.

[PaulRhB]

While the Airfix ones are out of production there's the S&S ones mentioned already

The middle one is S&S, the rest Airfix

 

More of the S&S kits

[exet1095]

As has been mentioned, the Alvis Scorpion is the best contender for the 1970s, classified as a light/scout tank, and was deployed widely until retired in the 1990s. Airfix used to make a 1/76 scale kit, no longer available, but presumably can be obtained second hand.

The Scorpion was never classed as a tank by the Army. It is a CVR(T) - combat vehicle reconnaissance (tracked). Essentially, an armoured car. A recce vehicle is designed to see and not be seen, not to close with and kill the enemy.

 

Moreover, when moved they often travelled in standard ISO containers, both on road vehicles and on trains. They're pretty small and only about 8 tons all up, not needing a great big well wagon.

 

Scimitars, still in service (until Ajax arrives), are essentially the same, just with a 30mm Rarden Cannon rather than the Scorpion's 76mm gun that was also used on the Saladin.

 

The Saladin went out of service finally at the end of the 80s when those in Cyprus were retired. There were some at Bovvy and Ashchurch until then too, and as big waggons, they would need a Warwell.

 

Finally, when they closed down the depot at Münchengladbach around 25 years ago there were still some Comets there. One was used by RARDE at Chobham to test a different type of transmission in the late 80s. I drove it, and 70 mph in a 1940s tank around a tight test track was a fantastic (if nerve-wracking) experience. The sound of the RR Meteor engine was something else

[PaulRhB]

While they didn't need warwells they were carried on them, I assume where there weren't enough flats to hand or they needed to shift some warwells to the destination to return warriors etc.

[PenrithBeacon]

I've got an ABS kit of a Warwell somewhere in the loft. It's probably easier to buy the RTR than to try and find the damned thing.

[JSpencer]

The Scorpion was never classed as a tank by the Army. It is a CVR(T) - combat vehicle reconnaissance (tracked). Essentially, an armoured car. A recce vehicle is designed to see and not be seen, not to close with and kill the enemy.

Moreover, when moved they often travelled in standard ISO containers, both on road vehicles and on trains. They're pretty small and only about 8 tons all up, not needing a great big well wagon.

Scimitars, still in service (until Ajax arrives), are essentially the same, just with a 30mm Rarden Cannon rather than the Scorpion's 76mm gun that was also used on the Saladin.

The Saladin went out of service finally at the end of the 80s when those in Cyprus were retired. There were some at Bovvy and Ashchurch until then too, and as big waggons, they would need a Warwell.

Finally, when they closed down the depot at Münchengladbach around 25 years ago there were still some Comets there. One was used by RARDE at Chobham to test a different type of transmission in the late 80s. I drove it, and 70 mph in a 1940s tank around a tight test track was a fantastic (if nerve-wracking) experience. The sound of the RR Meteor engine was something else

Considering the comets were designed with a top speed of 30 mph, I am utterly amazed you got to fly around at 70 with the original engine! Thanks for the story. I have often wondered if these tanks were often faster than "on paper".

[exet1095]

Considering the comets were designed with a top speed of 30 mph, I am utterly amazed you got to fly around at 70 with the original engine! Thanks for the story. I have often wondered if these tanks were often faster than "on paper".

A prototype computer-controlled layshaft gearbox, avoiding the 35% losses in the original epicyclic transmission. It didn't have a governor either. I have no idea if the overall ratios were different to those on the original; the idea was all about being able to use a smaller engine, and thus have a smaller tank, which would require a smaller engine, until the thing was down to the minimum size needed to tote around a 120mm gun. As it was a boffins' tank they had some fun with it.

[Wild Boar Fell]

This is great news, finally an RTR wagon to carry my Revell Warriors! Interesting that Hatton's is being so secretive about the manufacturer (unless I'm being blind!).

 

On another note, does anyone have drawings/photographs of the cradles used to carry Warriors on these wagons?

 

Ed

It is the intention of Wild Boar Models to develop the 'Warrior Ramps'. Now more information has been found on these.

 

Wild Boar Fell

[South-East Rail]

It is the intention of Wild Boar Models to develop the 'Warrior Ramps'. Now more information has been found on these.

 

Wild Boar Fell

 

Excellent, thanks for the information.

 

Ed

[JSpencer]

This is great news, finally an RTR wagon to carry my Revell Warriors! Interesting that Hatton's is being so secretive about the manufacturer (unless I'm being blind!).

 

On another note, does anyone have drawings/photographs of the cradles used to carry Warriors on these wagons?

 

Ed

Providing of course you are fine about using 1/72nd scale armour on 1/76th scale wagons. For me, the size difference is noticeable.

[phil gollin]

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... Some are available from Gram Models ...   ... MB5 Stalwart MkII ...

 

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S&M Models are working on three versions of the Alvis Stalwart ;

 

http://sandmmodels.co.uk/news/

 

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