coachmann's 4mm loco & coach W.B.

[edcayton]

Do you think that the different greens are any more different than the prototypes could have been if painted at different works in different years, or subject to some years in use?

 

Ed

[Enterprisingwestern]

You were a bit quick there coach!

 

Mike.

[coachmann]

Do you think that the different greens are any more different than the prototypes could have been if painted at different works in different years, or subject to some years in use?

No. I have seen some peculiar attempts at GWR/BR green in preservation but never in BR steam days. From being ex. works, the green steadily got darker.

[cctransuk]

No. I have seen some peculiar attempts at GWR/BR green in preservation but never in BR steam days. From being ex. works, the green steadily got darker.

 

I couldn't agree more - some of the preservation 'interpretations' look *very* wierd and completely spoil the illusion.

 

From attending BR works 'Open Days' in the 1960s and seeing ex-works locos side-by-side, it was clear to me that BR steam loco green and diesel loco green were one and the same thing.

 

However, the different preparation, painting and finishing regimes, plus the lack of lining, could make diesel locos look 'duller' than steam locos.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

Edited April 3, 2017 by cctransuk

[Hal Nail]

From attending BR works 'Open Days' in the 1960s and seeing ex-works locos side-by-side, it was clear to me that BR steam loco green and diesel loco green were one and the same thing.

 

John Isherwood.

Presumably polishing with an oily rag affected the apparent colour as well?

[cctransuk]

Presumably polishing with an oily rag affected the apparent colour as well?

 

Polishing with an oily rag? In the 1960s?

 

You jest, of course !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[gwrrob]

It was withdrawn in '59 and Oswestry was her last shed.

[coachmann]

It was withdrawn in '59 and Oswestry was her last shed.

Thanks very much. Gee that is awfully close to my cut-off period. I'll bet it wasn't green either..... 

[BR(W)]

This 64XX was bought from my old friend Brian Brown (Westward Models) for Llangollen line services before the Hattons 14XX came out. Anyway it was renumbered today as 6404 after seeing a photo of it in a book on the line. I have mislaid the Western Region shed sheets covering Croes Newydd and Oswestry etc, so I am hoping a kind person will tell me where 6404 was allocated in the later 1950's...

 

WEB 6404 1.jpg

 

Coach.

 

6404 was at Croes Newydd from the end of January 1955 until transfer to Oswestry in March 1959 from where she was withdrawn three months later.

 

Cheers,

 

BR(W).

[Hilux5972]

Now what was the point in doing that coachmann? You could have just bought a cheap Olton Hall and saved yourself the bother lol

 

Regards, Ryan

[BWsTrains]

The 4mm collection has been growing and so I took the BR green locos outside in today's bright sunlight to compare the different manufacturers BR green. Click on the image to enlarge...

 

On the left we have Hornby's out-of-court green with too much white in it and gaudy lining. Then BS224  Deep Bronze Green that some of us pro painters have used for years (with PPC orange lining). Then DJM's green (rather bright), and finally Bachmann's green, which is very acceptable with extremely fine orange lining that is as close as dammit to PPC lining colour. It goes without saying these are my personal views. The Deep Bronze (like LMS/BR crimson lake) changes according to how the light hits it...

WEB BR greens..jpg

Excellent reference piece. Any chance you could do the same to compare various makers GWR Greens pre 1947? 

 

Colin

[bgman]

Excellent reference piece. Any chance you could do the same to compare various makers GWR Greens pre 1947? 

 

Colin

That would be interesting, I was about to ask Larry what he would, or maybe has used for the 1920 -30's period on GW locos ?

I would like to respray a couple of Stars and discrepancies with the Hornby model being put to one side I've found their green varies across the range.

 

Larry - if you have resprayed an Edwardian period GWR loco what paint have you used please ? I understand it can be a can of worms but thought I'd ask.

 

Grahame

[Marshall5]

DJM/Hattons green 14XX came up for preparation today because the engraved plates arrived from Jim at Modelmaster.

 

I had ordered plates for No.1458 before the penny dropped that it did not have a top feed. Warning; some scenes could shock some viewers haha. Rather than re-order, I removed the top feed and pipework.... 

 

 

Actually, depending on the exact date you are modelling, you could have left the top feed.  As I posted in your thread back in December 1458 changed from no top feed to top feed and back again in just a few years.

Quote:

"Whilst looking for photos of 1465 I came across some more of 1458.  If the dates on the captions are correct (and I have no reason to doubt them) on 23/6/56 & 10/56 1458 was black with no top feed. By 1959 it was lined green with the old crest but carrying a top feed boiler which it carried to, at least, 1961. By 1963 it had reverted to a non top feed boiler but it hadn't been repainted and kept that livery and boiler to the end.  That seems an unusually short time between boiler changes - perhaps it developed a series issue?

One of the photos, taken at Welshpool on16/7/63, was from an elevated position and one could clearly see a small patch in the boiler cladding where the top feed had been. Obviously there were never enough top feed (and presumably newer) boilers to cover the whole class. Of the preserved 14xx's 1420 had no top feed until, at least the end of 1956 but certainly had one by the 60's. Conversely 1450 had a top feed in 1954 but had lost it by the 60's.

When attempting to model one of these beasties accurately the old advice of using a dated photo is never more true."

Ray.

Edited April 5, 2017 by Marshall5

[coachmann]

Thanks for that Ray. I had forgotten about your earlier post. You are right, it is a real can of worms. I went off photos taken on the Wrexham-Ellesmere line and the loco had no top feed.  It is all a matter of getting the black or green right and a top feed or no top feed right to cover a particular period. I have had to settle on 1957-59 for various reasons and yet I know this is unrealistic becasue the proportion of blood & custard coaches diminished each year. I could easily reinstate the top feed but I won't for the simple reason I like the look of the 14XX's without them. I did the same with the 0 gauge SanCheng 14XX.

[coachmann]

That would be interesting, I was about to ask Larry what he would, or maybe has used for the 1920 -30's period on GW locos ?

I would like to respray a couple of Stars and discrepancies with the Hornby model being put to one side I've found their green varies across the range.

 

Larry - if you have resprayed an Edwardian period GWR loco what paint have you used please ? I understand it can be a can of worms but thought I'd ask

The dark green used in Victorian and Edwardian times were much of a sameness and would not show up as any different on a model particularly after the decoration had been added. Phoenix has GWR 1928, 1945, BR 1954 and post 1954 greens as well as far as I am aware. It makes the range look interesting but personally I cannot see the point of all these greens when they barely look different on small scale locomotive. I use the same green for post 1928 GWR and BR seeing as BR adopted GWR green. For pr-1928 I used to use a darker green matched to Precision Paints colour. 

 

Precision/Phoenix Paints has changed the shade of its GWR lining orange. It is now so close to BR lining orange that it makes no practical difference.  

[Marshall5]

Heck, at the end of the day it's all about having fun with our models whether it's building them or running them.  Sometimes I think we get too tied up in the minutae and get concerned about something that no-one other than the builder is ever going to notice - I know I do!

Cheers,

Ray..

[bgman]

Thank you Larry,

 

I've used both the Phoenix and Precision pre and post 20's and relative to scale and lightning I too cannot discern that much difference.

 

Regards

Grahame

[Willie Whizz]

Interesting you should mention 'spilt milk', Coach - I was only wondering to myself the other day why it is that no R-T-R manufacturer in modern times has offered carriages in the short-lived 'plum and spilt milk' livery.

 

Indeed, so short-lived does it seem to have been that I'm not even sure to which carriages in which Regions it would have been appropriate, and how long they would have lasted in those colours before repaint.

[bgman]

Nice work Larry, may I ask which companies green you used to spray the loco please.

Grahame

[coachmann]

Nice work Larry, may I ask which companies green you used to spray the loco please.

Grahame

 BS224  Deep Bronze Green in cellulose through my usual trade source. I couldn't see this Land Rover colour in Halfords spraycan range, but I think I read on one of the threads that they will mix it for customers.

Edited April 5, 2017 by coachmann

[Focalplane]

Halfords do mix paint but they have to have the various pigments in stock. Also, some of the contents cannot be used now for H&S reasons. Go figure!

[New Haven Neil]

 BS224  Deep Bronze Green in cellulose through my usual trade source. I couldn't see this Land Rover colour in Halfords spraycan range, but I think I read on one of the threads that they will mix it for customers.

 

There's a great story in John Bate's Talyllyn book about the colours of their locos, as members didn't like the colour they were at that time.  The argument eventually going to the committee in the form of paint swatches of the several greens proposed by the members of that committee.  They unanimously chose Deep Bronze green (as per Land Rover) ..... which was the colour they were currently painted anyway!  John Bate exit stage left, laughing his socks off.  The eyes of the beholder may differ in their interpretation as well as the memory being somewhat fallible - therefore I never get hung up over slight changes of tone in loco colours from manufacturers.

[Barry O]

Larry it isn't just the satin black.. the matt goes rock hard after a couple of openings of the tins.... and it is a good job you don't need to use Railmatch diesel warning panel yellow... it has the covering characteristics of water... even on a white undercoat...

 

 

Frustrated of Leeds

 

 

 

Baz

[coachmann]

Larry it isn't just the satin black.. the matt goes rock hard after a couple of openings of the tins.... and it is a good job you don't need to use Railmatch diesel warning panel yellow... it has the covering characteristics of water... even on a white undercoat...

 

 

Frustrated of Leeds

Hi Baz,

 

In 1989 I went over to Accuflex acrylic paint imported from the USA by Sharp's of Sheffield. Quick drying with no brushmarks, it was ideal for brush painting running plates and splasher tops etc. Eventually some department or other made sure it couldn't be imported so it was a case of back to Humbrol satin black. I am currently on the lookout for a good quality acrylic (Revell Accucolor isn't bad) but I have kicked enamel into touch after wasting yet another day.

[grob1234]

If I may be so bold as to suggest an alternative to basic colours (Matt black, satin black, white, red etc)? I find the Tamiya enamel range to be really good (as in my opinion is their acrylic range). Very fine pigment, brush paints well with no brush strokes visible and goes through the airbrush a treat. Quick to dry as well.

 

Another brand worth a try is Vallejo. Especially if you want to fire it through an airbrush. I'm going to be tackling some LNER Hornsby A4 respray jobs in the future and will be using the Vallejo range to give some variations on Hornbys version of Garter blue.

Edited April 7, 2017 by grob1234