Hornby Britannia

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...Anyway, priority for Hornby should be to fix the chassis/centre driving wheel issue!!!

 

 

Just run them a lot. My 'Black Prince' and 'Hotspur' are equally polished on all six driving wheels after over ten years continuous service.

[Silver Sidelines]

Thanks Rob and G-BOAF

 

A great model - excellent value for money or an expensive toy? Fettling my model has kept me entertained for well over three hours.

 

Is there any way of making that front regulator linkage along the boiler sit straight? ..

.  priority for Hornby should be to fix the chassis/centre driving wheel issue!!!

 

You are a hard task master Rob - yes the 'Damper Control' does look better now it has been straightened.

 

70013 improved with no need to 'Phototshop'

 

The offending piece of wire before being shortened by <0.5mm

 

 

So - what else has filled in my time? Fitting the missing sandpipes, dropping the wheel set to tighten the coupling fastening bolts, and carefully unbending and regluing one of the cab windshields.

 

I am still sorry that it doesn't come with a speedo cable - but I can understand Hornby's logic although along with the missing sand pipes that should have saved them a 'few bob' in man hours with perhaps fewer models returned.

 

Cheers Ray

Edited January 14, 2019 by Silver Sidelines

[robmcg]

Looks brilliant now Ray.

 

I have to say I hesitated before mentioning the sagging rod, because I am seriously uncomfortable with judging others' models.  I still prefer imagination and what I think is called suspension of disbelief over any prescribed standard.

[Silver Sidelines]

Lovely

 

.I have to say I hesitated before mentioning the sagging rod, ...

Absolutely - I had been focused on fixing the other issues and was conveniently avoiding the 'elephant in the room'. I do think these 'close up' pictures can amplify any failings.

 

Cheers Ray

[G-BOAF]

Just run them a lot. My 'Black Prince' and 'Hotspur' are equally polished on all six driving wheels after over ten years continuous service.

Black Prince for Norfolkman set - pre 2010 production I think, and the centre driving wheels did not have that problem earlier on I believe (hence my suggestion poor manufacturing/tool care/machining etc).

 

Ditto Hotspur - what year was this made (or renumbered as I don't think this is a model Hornby released)?

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Black Prince for Norfolkman set - pre 2010 production I think, and the centre driving wheels did not have that problem earlier on I believe (hence my suggestion poor manufacturing/tool care/machining etc).

 

Ditto Hotspur - what year was this made (or renumbered as I don't think this is a model Hornby released)?

 

Hotspur is a renumber of one of my first purchases of the model, a brace of BORING! William Wordsworth. The other became Couer de Lion, and is now on a friend's layout. (Why do Hornby generally avoid the altogether funkiest class names? Mr Cloudsley Narcissist wanting to keep railways (and most of us) out of 'his' Lake District. Prat.)

[G-BOAF]

Hotspur is a renumber of one of my first purchases of the model, a brace of BORING! William Wordsworth. The other became Couer de Lion, and is now on a friend's layout. (Why do Hornby generally avoid the altogether funkiest class names? Mr Cloudsley Narcissist wanting to keep railways (and most of us) out of 'his' Lake District. Prat.)

Right, as I suspected. The earliest models I believe didn't have this problem, and it crept in to the manufacturing process somewhere.

[Londoner]

Thanks Rob and G-BOAF

 

A great model - excellent value for money or an expensive toy? Fettling my model has kept me entertained for well over three hours.

 

 

 

You are a hard task master Rob - yes the 'Damper Control' does look better now it has been straightened.

 

70013 improved with no need to 'Phototshop'

 

The offending piece of wire before being shortened by <0.5mm

 

 

So - what else has filled in my time? Fitting the missing sandpipes, dropping the wheel set to tighten the coupling fastening bolts, and carefully unbending and regluing one of the cab windshields.

 

I am still sorry that it doesn't come with a speedo cable - but I can understand Hornby's logic although along with the missing sand pipes that should have saved them a 'few bob' in man hours with perhaps fewer models returned.

 

Cheers Ray

 

Are you really happy with the chimney though?

[Silver Sidelines]

Hello Londoner

 

It has been heavyweight for a long time and it doesn't shout out to me when I am running them.

 

Just Williams

 

Are you really happy with the chimney though?

My only picture from train spotting days is a rather blurred shot of Mercury at Carlisle Citadel - I can see what you mean.

 

https://flic.kr/p/8LHMgL

 

Cheers Ray

[G-BOAF]

Given the chimney just pops off, this model is crying out for someone to make a turned brass chimney top (preferable to white metail I'd say). Surely a simple CAD to draw and machine up on a mini CNC lathe? (beyond my capabilities, but not those of others')

Edited January 16, 2019 by G-BOAF

[PenrithBeacon]

Given the chimney just pops off, this model is crying out for someone to make a turned brass chimney top (preferable to white metail I'd say). Surely a simple CAD to draw and machine up on a mini CNC lathe? (beyond my capabilities, but not those of others')

See http://www.247developments.co.uk/Mobile.html#Detailing catalogue number CH46

[G-BOAF]

Anzac appears to be arriving into stock. The first time Hornby have released a Brit with the BR1D tender since Sanda Kan days. Good re-introduction to the range. Looks a fab model.

[robmcg]

I think the Britannia model by Hornby represents a high point in RTR 00 production of express engines, although arguably equalled or bettered by such as the N15, the recent Nelson, and in some respects the B12 or the Clan, the latter two for different reasons; heavy chassis and chimney shape.

The Bulleid Light Pacific is up there too.. 

 

That Hornby continue to produce these astonishingly good models in the current climate while other mainstream producers have curtailed theirs is a source of wonder.    And we have the prospect of a state-of-the-art Princess .   

 

But back to the magnificent Britannias, here are some enhanced photos of mostly BR1D-equipped late engines of the class. Edited pics will remove if asked. The last, of 70042 'Lord Roberts' at Thanketon north of Beattock,  is the weathering work of James Mower.

 

 

 

 

[Black 5 Bear]

Anzac is a lovely model without doubt. I've seen one today at my local model ship which has "Skew Whiff" lining on both cab sides.  I thought this was a one off until I saw the  recent  Rails of Sheffield photo

I think I'll be sticking with my Sanda Kan  Lord Rowallian with the BR1D tender.

[Killybegs]

The Hornby Brit is a good candidate for conversion to P4 as seen here.

[Brinkly]

5 minutes ago, Killybegs said:

The Hornby Brit is a good candidate for conversion to P4 as seen here.

 

This really is a superb model John, truly wonderful. 

 

Kind regards,

Nick.

[robmcg]

4 hours ago, Black 5 Bear said:

Anzac is a lovely model without doubt. I've seen one today at my local model ship which has "Skew Whiff" lining on both cab sides.  I thought this was a one off until I saw the  recent  Rails of Sheffield photo

I think I'll be sticking with my Sanda Kan  Lord Rowallian with the BR1D tender.

 

It wouldn't matter much if you got toboldlygo to weather it like this.... 

 

 

my photography doesn't really do it justice

 

 

Edited February 24, 2019 by robmcg

[robmcg]

For those who may be curious, the latest iteration of the Hornby Britannia 'Anzac' 70046 looks like this with my Canon EOS-M camera, room light plus a bit of reading-lamp tungsten, everything on auto. f29 at 8 secs 100DIN...   

 

Some shop images make the lining look a bit harsh, and the green a bit sickly, but the green is to my eye ok and my camera tends to make it look rather lighter than the naked eye.

 

 

 

Smooth silent runner straight from the box.

 

I enjoyed the two pages in the 2019 catalogue showing this model in bits, what amazing work the factory does!

 

 

p.s. below a rather sympathetic bit of photo editing yields this..

 

will remove if it offends

 

 

Edited February 26, 2019 by robmcg

[Market65]

Oh dear! Anzac is definitely not as smooth as the very first batch of Brits at the very lowest of speeds. I’ve just been, for the last three hours, conducting extensive tests into its slow speed running, and it’s vibrating. A kind of cogging, which another Brit I have, from the first batch, at that walking pace does not exhibit, nor any other Hornby Pacific from that era.

I can’t do anymore with it tonight, my eyes are on stalks about 10 miles long!! But tomorrow I’ll take another look.

It certainly runs well at all other speeds, and was the very best of the three that were tested in Monk Bar Models of York. One was not at all happy at running forwards with a grinding noise and much shuddering. 

Im suspecting, ever so slightly, that Hornbys standards may well have slipped back a little in these and other matters - the regulator linkage is as bent as on Oliver Cromwell, and the ladder on the rear of the tender is like a banana to look at from the side. Both of those issues I can easily fix.

So, I like Anzac, but that slow speed running leaves everything to be desired unfortunately.

 

Best, tired, regards,

 

Rob.

[robmcg]

Further to Market65 above I could have added to my post with the photo that as received the l/h lubricator rod was bent inwards fouling the motion, the slidebar was rather bent down and in too, and there was and still is a smear on the paintwork on the smoke deflector, which I edited out.

 

But I still thought the model worth it.  Having received two blue Coronations with missing handrails at the front I'm inclined to think Hornby's assembly standard may have slipped a tad.  Only Hornby knows how many returns they get these days, some retailers might have an idea.

[Ian Hargrave]

7 hours ago, Market65 said:

Oh dear! Anzac is definitely not as smooth as the very first batch of Brits at the very lowest of speeds. I’ve just been, for the last three hours, conducting extensive tests into its slow speed running, and it’s vibrating. A kind of cogging, which another Brit I have, from the first batch, at that walking pace does not exhibit, nor any other Hornby Pacific from that era.

I can’t do anymore with it tonight, my eyes are on stalks about 10 miles long!! But tomorrow I’ll take another look.

It certainly runs well at all other speeds, and was the very best of the three that were tested in Monk Bar Models of York. One was not at all happy at running forwards with a grinding noise and much shuddering. 

Im suspecting, ever so slightly, that Hornbys standards may well have slipped back a little in these and other matters - the regulator linkage is as bent as on Oliver Cromwell, and the ladder on the rear of the tender is like a banana to look at from the side. Both of those issues I can easily fix.

So, I like Anzac, but that slow speed running leaves everything to be desired unfortunately.

 

Best, tired, regards,

 

Rob.

 

That sounds to me like the familiar gear train problems that used to dog Hornby locos for a while.A pity because it's a nice looking model.

[G-BOAF]

Been 'modiflying' a Britannia (basically swapping a post 2013 chassis onto an earlier body), including dismantling two models to combine parts.

 

1) One tender appears to have had its buffer beam fitted after the body is screwed on, with glue bridging the body and the chassis. After removing the two body screws, it took my thin nosed leatherman pliars and an uncomfortable amount of force to remove the tender chassis. This is rediculous! A bit of scratched paint on the metal chassis, but completely hidden, but I really feared I would break something.

 

2) the water scoop completely hides one of the screws for the tender wheel keeper plate.

 

3) on all my three Britannia chassis, the conneting rods are fitted the wrong way round, with the knuckle join between the first and second axles, rather than second and third. The box art also shows this error. Easy to correct (if something of a fiddle), but systematically wrong from the factory

 

4) I have a set of driving wheels where the tyres are not the same diameter (the middle one is 0.15mm bigger than the other two,and the loco rockes on its middle axle). The diameter over the flages is the same, but not over the treads. How is this even possible on a CNC lathe or whatever they produce the tyres. What is going on???!!!

 

Hope to have a decent model constructed later this week out of the 'best bits', but some of these manufacturing and assembly errors are rediculous!

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

21 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

...I have a set of driving wheels where the tyres are not the same diameter (the middle one is 0.15mm bigger than the other two,and the loco rocks on its middle axle). The diameter over the flages is the same, but not over the treads. How is this even possible on a CNC lathe or whatever they produce the tyres. What is going on?...

That is very easily understood, in the context of - typically in China outshopped - short run component production. Most likely cause, tyres from different batch runs, although there are a plenitude of other possibilities. (I could yarn on all day, on the basis of a significant part of my career with QA responsibility for significantly better than six sigma precision machining processes; several million delivered per annum, deviation from dimensional specifications = nil.)

 

For the customer: return to retailer, unfit for purpose.

[G-BOAF]

37 minutes ago, 34theletterbetweenB&D said:

That is very easily understood, in the context of - typically in China outshopped - short run component production. Most likely cause, tyres from different batch runs, although there are a plenitude of other possibilities. (I could yarn on all day, on the basis of a significant part of my career with QA responsibility for significantly better than six sigma precision machining processes; several million delivered per annum, deviation from dimensional specifications = nil.)

 

For the customer: return to retailer, unfit for purpose.

So return not an option. Model bought over a year ago, last one in stock, fundamental reason for purchase (true chassis block with all axles aligned) still stood (a comment on subsequent QC of Hornby chassis blocks); I had a spare wheel set available, so problem solved.

But yes different batches of production/lef overs from previous runs does make sense. Indeed I tried just swapping the centre axle out and the problem persisted, meaning that there was a difference in machining between 2012 and 2013 production batches.

[G-BOAF]

I've noticed that all Hornby Britannias have their rods fitted the wrong way round, i.e. that the join between the two connecting rods is between the first and second axles rather than second and third.

 

On one of my models I've swapped the rods round to correct this, but now am concerned it is putting undue strain on the rivet connecting the two rod parts, given that the drive is off the rear axle. Looks great though.

 

Can anyone advise. Should I swap back?

Edited April 24, 2020 by G-BOAF