Theatre Indicator on Platform Starter

[Izzy]

I wonder if I might ask if it would be permissable to have a theatre indicator on top of a ex GE area searchlight colour light platform starter? Having made some track alterations to a very small plank type 1960's era layout, giving two distinct and diverging routes from the platform to the 'exit/fiddle yard' compared to the one that existed previously I realise that these both need to be signalled and think this may be the best/easiest way of doing this.

 

thanks,

 

Izzy

[royaloak]

Are they both 'mainline' routes?

[TheSignalEngineer]

Could you post a sketch showing the layout please? It would make it a lot easier to see what is required.

[russ p]

Newcastle had such signals until resignalling in about 1990

[Izzy]

Here are a couple of shots. Perhaps they will help explain things. As you can see it's a very small/silly little layout that has been quite a bit of fun to build as cheaply/easily/light as possible - it's virtually all card.

 

 

 

In the second one you can see the original exit to the left. At the rear to the right the second track now extends into a sector plate fiddle yard which has been added, which the first exit also now runs into. Two separate exits - like one leg of a triangular junction mean it's location could be considered a bit like St Boltophs - and gives a bit more scope for operating.

 

Izzy

[Izzy]

I am still trying to work out what is best for this signal and have managed to produce a simple trackplan via Templot. Reading all I can I get the impression a theatre indicator would be okay but that the GPL I have placed on the post might be wrong and that a calling-on type is needed instead. Or am I getting things all mixed up? Can anyone advise?

 

thanks,

 

Izzy

 

[The Stationmaster]

I am still trying to work out what is best for this signal and have managed to produce a simple trackplan via Templot. Reading all I can I get the impression a theatre indicator would be okay but that the GPL I have placed on the post might be wrong and that a calling-on type is needed instead. Or am I getting things all mixed up? Can anyone advise?

 

thanks,

 

Izzy

 

all_saints.png

 

The position light is incorrect because it is showing a red light - provided it doesn't show a red then it is ok but that is subject to the question of what is it there for (presumably to read to the siding - if so then it is ok).  Nothing wrong witha theatre indicator for teh two running routes - again subject to a proviso that they are both running routes,

[Izzy]

The position light is incorrect because it is showing a red light - provided it doesn't show a red then it is ok but that is subject to the question of what is it there for (presumably to read to the siding - if so then it is ok).  Nothing wrong witha theatre indicator for teh two running routes - again subject to a proviso that they are both running routes,

 

Many thanks. As the position light is non-working I thought that one red/one white would be correct for early ones but as usual it would seem I'm not understanding things correctly, and I must confess to confusion as to what measures would control shunting moves using the platform line and the running lines/siding. The main signal? You will realise my understanding of signalling remains rather meagre and every time I think I have learnt a bit more I discover it's almost less than before......leaving me often quite lost.....

 

Izzy

[Suzie]

Perhaps signal CO20 at Colchester might be some inspiration. It is probably not quite what you want, but has the position light which shows two white lights for access to the depot. Not sure what the route indicators actually show, but a picture and some information on this page:-

 

http://www.railsigns.uk/photos/p_clsig1/p_clsig1.html

 

Image is here:=

 

http://www.railsigns.uk/photos/p_clsig1/pic_co20.jpg

[cb900f]

Izzy,

 

Mike is saying that the position light is fine for movements to the sidings but there would be no aspects illuminated in the position light as there is a red already displayed in the main aspect. Therefore the position light would only be illuminated  (2 white lights at 45 degrees ) to authorise the driver to pass the main aspect at danger and proceed into the sidings, as per the photo attached. You will notice that there is no provision for a red aspect in the position light anyway.

 

Pete

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Izzy]

Perhaps signal CO20 at Colchester might be some inspiration. It is probably not quite what you want, but has the position light which shows two white lights for access to the depot. Not sure what the route indicators actually show, but a picture and some information on this page:-

 

http://www.railsigns.uk/photos/p_clsig1/p_clsig1.html

 

Image is here:=

 

http://www.railsigns.uk/photos/p_clsig1/pic_co20.jpg

 

Yes, thanks, it was originally seeing this signal that first gave me the thought that perhaps I could use a theatre indicator with my revised layout scheme, indeed I do wonder if the slightly smaller route indicator would be more appropriate than a larger full size one. I do wonder what all the other indicators do. Probably access to the goods holding loops etc, since I believe that it's/was situated on the bi-directional platform line which I call it the 'Clacton' line. Often see trains sitting there in the loops waiting for a slot in both directions, but mainly London bound.

 

Izzy,

 

Mike is saying that the position light is fine for movements to the sidings but there would be no aspects illuminated in the position light as there is a red already displayed in the main aspect. Therefore the position light would only be illuminated  (2 white lights at 45 degrees ) to authorise the driver to pass the main aspect at danger and proceed into the sidings, as per the photo attached. You will notice that there is no provision for a red aspect in the position light anyway.

 

Pete

 

index.jpg

 

Ah, yes, of course, what an idiot I am - but quite usual. The problem being that I put a normal type GPL on the post which was wrong anyway, and thus needs changing. Many thanks for explaining.

 

Thanks again to all, most helpful, and appreciated.

 

Izzy

[Suzie]

Don't despair - CO20 has a full GPL but with the red lamp blanked off, so you should be able to modify yours in a similar way. If you do not have platform staff you will not need a right-away indicator (which I think is the one on the right), so just need to pop a couple of stencils on the top for the routes

[Izzy]

Just thought I'd add a shot of the changed signal. Managed to remove it and add the small size indicator while modding the PL. Sadly these both remain non-working for it would have been nice to do what Tony Sissons managed with the 4mm Widnes Vine Yard and Andy Carlson did with 2mm St Ruth and get them lit, both quite inspiring results.  Now I can try and sort out the FPL's, another little challenge when as with the signal, rodding details have already been installed and will probably need changing.

 

 

 

Once again thanks for the help and advice,

 

Izzy

 

[ianblenk]

Hi,

 

Excellent model, any chance of a few more pics?

 

Ian B

[Izzy]

Yes, certainly.

 

One before planting.

 

 

and one taken to check the EPL looked reasonable but shows another angle.

 

 

and a comparison between the original 2 aspect signal, and the searchlight that replaced it before the latest alterations were made. I think the improvement in the shunt signal is marked in the revised form.

 

 

Izzy

 

 

 

[Izzy]

Found  a few more construction shots which I thought might be of use to anyone else wanting to make their own signals. This is as originally built.

 

 

 

 

Just bits of brass tube and sheet really, the big challenge here being squeezing the large bi-colour led into the head. I had to file down the front to fit into the tube/hood similar to how a lighthouse LED is shaped. I tried to get a smaller bi-colour LED but couldn't seem to find any at the time of construction. Getting Red/Green ones isn't easy either. SMD ones are supposed to be around. It's mainly because of the size of the LED and the wiring that I didn't attempt lighting the theatre indicator when that was added later. Just no room to spare.

 

 

 

Izzy

 

 

[ianblenk]

Hi

Excellent and informative, thank-you for taking the time. Would love to see some layout shots with stock (hint)

 

Ian B

[Suzie]

That is quite a feat getting that huge LED in there. If you make another one something like the Broadcom/Avago HSMF-C145 surface mount LED might make life easier:-

 

http://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Broadcom-Avago/HSMF-C145

 

http://uk.farnell.com/broadcom-limited/hsc145/led-red-green-79-223mcd-smd/dp/2494331

 

The 2mm lens on it is a scale 6" so should fit without filing too much.

 

 

For single colour white LEDs try ASMT-CW00 0603 size surface mount with lens :-

 

http://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Broadcom-Limited/ASMT-CW00

 

http://uk.farnell.com/broadcom-limited/asmt-cw00/led-smd-0-4mm-r-a-white/dp/1652073

 

If they don't fit it might be impossible.

[Izzy]

Hi

Excellent and informative, thank-you for taking the time. Would love to see some layout shots with stock (hint)

 

Ian B

 

Pleased they are of use and interest.

 

I could post some with stock (GE area green diesel era) but not really sure this is the right place to do so, or where might be, for the truth is it's only a very small/simple layout, a basic test track that got some buildings etc put on it.

 

 

That is quite a feat getting that huge LED in there. If you make another one something like the Broadcom/Avago HSMF-C145 surface mount LED might make life easier:-

 

http://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Broadcom-Avago/HSMF-C145

 

http://uk.farnell.com/broadcom-limited/hsc145/led-red-green-79-223mcd-smd/dp/2494331

 

The 2mm lens on it is a scale 6" so should fit without filing too much.

 

 

For single colour white LEDs try ASMT-CW00 0603 size surface mount with lens :-

 

http://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Broadcom-Limited/ASMT-CW00

 

http://uk.farnell.com/broadcom-limited/asmt-cw00/led-smd-0-4mm-r-a-white/dp/1652073

 

If they don't fit it might be impossible.

 

Yes, I was just determined it was going to fit one way or another............

 

I knew smaller bi-colours were done, and in SMD format, (CR signals do N scale searchlights using them), but just couldn't find them, so thanks for the links you have posted. They will be most useful in the future when I next get around to some more signals. A new 2mm layout is in the planning stages which will need a couple of GE area searchlights, so the larger bi-colours I have are definitely out!

 

I just fudged some Berko/Eckon 2 aspect ones for my current circular 2mm one (which needs a bit doing to finishing scenically),

 

 

but want proper GE searchlights on the new one.

 

Izzy

[LNERGE]

The EFPL looks superb. The same goes for the searchlight.

[Izzy]

The EFPL looks superb. The same goes for the searchlight.

 

 

That's very nice of you to say so. The EFPL's - I ended up making them for all but one point (the one I put on the loco release is quite probably incorrect but I had already rodded the point to be worked from the box), wouldn't have been possible without the threads on here and the kindness of others who posted drawings and diagrams of the various configurations. I'm afraid I did leave some of the finer details off though, the detectors etc, but pleased it doesn't show too much,

 

regards,

 

Izzy

[LNERGE]

 I'm afraid I did leave some of the finer details off though, the detectors etc, but pleased it doesn't show too much,

 

regards,

 

Izzy

I was going to mention that but but just how far does one go with this? It looks superb. Nice to see the LNER style of EFPL.

[Izzy]

In response to the request for a few shots with stock on the layout, but feeling I don't want to start a thread elsewhere, I managed to find these few which might be suitable for posting here under the guise that they show more of the track aspects and EFPL's.

 

 

This Class 15 is numbered 8224 as I know it ran on the branch line behind my house at some stage.

 

 

The platform is quite small/short. In truth I would think the loco release would have been worked by hand lever locked from the box and so a EFPL would not have been in situ, nor the GPL. The railbus is one I remember riding in as a child between Saffron Walden & Audley End when staying with a friend.

 

 

The 08 D3495 (it's actually a class 10) is one that was stationed at Harwich/Parkeston quay for much of it's life.

 

 

Sorry for the odd perspective of the shots. Taken at a wide angle with a small digicam as there isn't the room to use a DSLR.

 

Izzy