Graham Farish Split Gears again

[CF MRC]

The original Farish diesel had brass gears.

 

Tim

[Chris Higgs]

The 24's have exactly the same axle as a 25, but why replace an entire axle? You can easily slide off the wheel to replace the gear. I am sure the gear wheels are pretty standard throughput the BachFarr range. Can the brass gear wheels from the 2FS range be transferred to standard axles? Or the back to back altered? Not thought of that option before, but not been necessary with any of my 24/25 fleet yet, as no split gears as yet.

 

The brass gears used on the 2mm Association axles have a different inside diameter to that of a Farish axle. But the Polish supplier of these gears will manufacture gears individually to any specification you want - diameter of the hole, gear thickness, and I believe in various materials. So if you are fed to the back teeth with splitting plastic gears, get yourselves some brass ones. They seem to be working fine for us 2FS modellers, and I haven't heard any reports of wear on the plastic spur gears. Just to give more info, the 2FS gears are made to a sliding fit on the axle and fixed in place using professional grades of Loctite.

 

So far as I remember, the specification of a Farish gear wheel on the 24s is M0.3 16T. Some Farish models (e.g. DMUs, prototype Deltic) use M0.3 15T gears instead.

 

You cannot alter the 2mm axles to N gauge - their construction has a fixed back to back, and the wheel profile is in any case too fine for N gauge.

 

Chris

Edited March 1, 2018 by Chris Higgs

[Dr Al]

The 24's have exactly the same axle as a 25, but why replace an entire axle? You can easily slide off the wheel to replace the gear. I am sure the gear wheels are pretty standard throughput the BachFarr range. Can the brass gear wheels from the 2FS range be transferred to standard axles? Or the back to back altered? Not thought of that option before, but not been necessary with any of my 24/25 fleet yet, as no split gears as yet.

 

 

Exactly. The gears are the standard 16 tooth gears in most cases, and even if not, BR Lines have stocks of 15 and 17 tooth flavours now too.

 

If fitted correctly by carefully opening out the hole so the stress is reduced, they should not split again, and cost around £1 per gear, so far less costly than any of the other suggestions - you could replace the one gear almost 5 times over before the 2mmFS gears would be cheaper, and I'd humbly suggest if you get to that number of repetitions of failure then you aren't fitting them right!

 

Cheers,

Alan

[WesternKing]

Just had another email from BR Lines, they are £18 for a pack of 4, that's more like it! 

[Dr Al]

Just had another email from BR Lines, they are £18 for a pack of 4, that's more like it! 

 

Still £4.50 each before post...so not cheap, or with any guarantee of non-repeat - replacing the gears is a far better option for those willing to try it.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[Chris Higgs]

Exactly. The gears are the standard 16 tooth gears in most cases, and even if not, BR Lines have stocks of 15 and 17 tooth flavours now too.

 

If fitted correctly by carefully opening out the hole so the stress is reduced, they should not split again, and cost around £1 per gear, so far less costly than any of the other suggestions - you could replace the one gear almost 5 times over before the 2mmFS gears would be cheaper, and I'd humbly suggest if you get to that number of repetitions of failure then you aren't fitting them right!

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

Not sure about your arithmetic here - the 2mm 16T gears sell at 2.00 each, 4.50 is the price for a complete axle with wheels and gear.

 

I cannot be sure on what a gear would cost ordered from Poland but I would expect it to be around the 2.00 mark as well.

 

Chris

[Dr Al]

Not sure about your arithmetic here - the 2mm 16T gears sell at 2.00 each, 4.50 is the price for a complete axle with wheels and gear.

 

 

16 tooth gears from BR Lines are 90p each. 4*90p = £3.60 to do a complete loco.

Cheers,

Alan

[bamford]

interesting that this still goes on

 

all are kept in a loft layout area

all get used periodically ie little in winter lots at other times of year

 

of my stock

 

all poole steam locos after a decade of storage were cleaned up and worked fine

 

similarly 47's and 101's - all brass gears

also converted lifelike gp 40 chassis- despite hauling metal kit  bodies around

most of these date from the 1980's , some secondhand when i bought em

 

lima 55 and 31 dead - terrible model anyway but all there was

 

so far no problems with new 20/31/37/44/45 types bought in the last 5 - 7 yrs

 

the only plus to this issue - an auction site has provided me with a number of cheap locos due to gear problems - mainly 25's and dmu's

 

br lines seems to have no problem supplying gears and whilst it is not that difficult to do i too would be rather annoyed of the only new loco's i have fail in the same way

[WesternKing]

The class 24's have 17 tooth gears which BR Lines sell, I assume the newer class 25's & 47's also have as they have the larger wheels.

[Dr Al]

The class 24's have 17 tooth gears which BR Lines sell, I assume the newer class 25's & 47's also have as they have the larger wheels.

 

No, the class 47s have different wheels than on the 24, and 16 tooth gears.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[WesternKing]

No, the class 47s have different wheels than on the 24, and 16 tooth gears.

 

Cheers,

Alan

Thanks for that Alan, we could do with a list of wheel sizes & gears!

[richierich]

Is it possible to order these metal gears from this supplier in Poland?

 

Does anyone have details of this supplier?

 

I’d rather fit metal gears than the nylon ones from Farish.

 

Currently have a need for quite a few 16T gears to repair a Class 158 and some spare wheel sets which have split gears, but otherwise perfect.

 

I like the ideal of going down the 2FS route, but quite like the compromise solution that Cav has applied on Burton on Trent and Miller Dale the so called N2 approach. But that if Off Topic!

Edited April 1, 2018 by richierich

[fezza]

Arrgg... all three of my peaks have now split gears and one has now been repaired twice.

 

I love n gauge but these reliability issues mean that I'm spending increasing time in 0. Constant failures are so frustrating.

[Topogarden]

As a matter of interest, I had a look on BR Lines web site to establish the price fellow hobbyist are charged for a repair to their Graham Farish Loco's with one split gear! To post a small parcel 2nd class proof of postage only is currently £2.85 (no insurance) BR Lines charges £14.50 plus cost of parts say £1.00 for a gear and VAT £3.10 plus return postage £3.20 total £24.65 plus the risk the loco being lost in the post! Wow! This is in no way a criticism of what BR Lines are charging and £14.50 + VAT includes a full service (plugs oil and filters! sorry couldn't resist!) But seriously nearly £25.00 every time someone not capable of repairing a split gear in their Graham Farish Loco! come on! I would be interested to find out what Bachmann charge to repair a split gear? Pete

 

Bachmann currently charge £30 to repair a loco which includes the first £7 of parts as far as I am aware plus your postage costs to send it to them.

[Dr Al]

Bachmann currently charge £30 to repair a loco which includes the first £7 of parts as far as I am aware plus your postage costs to send it to them.

I'm glad I fix my own - £25 from BR Lines and £30 from Bachmann (albeit, with new locos I'd argue they should fix it for free under consumer guarantee or consumer 'fit for prupose' laws) - the gears cost ~£1 each and the tool to pull wheels cost a fiver, and it's done hundreds of them, so essentially has been almost free if its cost spread per gear.....!

 

Cheers,

Alan

[WesternKing]

I'm glad I fix my own - £25 from BR Lines and £30 from Bachmann (albeit, with new locos I'd argue they should fix it for free under consumer guarantee or consumer 'fit for prupose' laws) - the gears cost ~£1 each and the tool to pull wheels cost a fiver, and it's done hundreds of them, so essentially has been almost free if its cost spread per gear.....!

 

Cheers,

Alan

What tool do you use to pull them Alan? I've used pliers for the old Farish wheels which are particularly hard to remove but the newer Bachmann one's pull off with finger power!

[Dr Al]

What tool do you use to pull them Alan? I've used pliers for the old Farish wheels which are particularly hard to remove but the newer Bachmann one's pull off with finger power!

 

 

Never use anything other than a proper worm puller. The original Farish wheels are heat treated on (basically moulded on to the axle) so they won't come off easy otherwise, and likely to be damaged just trying to lever them off.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[Davexoc]

Been having a sort out a test running recently, quite a few Poole gears split, but out of my Peaks, the class 45 was playing up. So further investigation revealed a split gear, which to get the loco running again I cut off. This is one half of the gear.....

 

 

On the bottom is the knife cut, the top the failure. There is clearly a void in the material.

Now knowing a bit about injection moulding, this is due to one or more of the following:

injection speed too slow

injection pressure too low

mould temperature too low

pack and hold pressure too low

pack and hold time too short

 

It could even be that production had been ok'd a little too soon, before the process had stabilised.

 

Off to check my collection of Duffs now (class 47s), which hopefully aren't!

 

Dave

[Peter J]

Hello, not updated for a while but I thought it was worth a mention as I recently purchased 2 new Graham Farish Class 56 locos GWR green and the West Coast (not sure of the colour?) both very nice runners. I followed the running in process as always and removed the bogies to give a light oil. To my surprise I found not the usual black gears but nice new white ones. Please forgive me if this news was already common knowledge, if it was sorry I missed it. I'm hoping it's as a result of Graham Farish listing to our concerns and fixing the problem. are G/F now manufacturing their gears using a better plastic? I do hope so and I hope the new gears are compatible with existing gears/loco's so we can retro fit and fix the gear splitting problem for ever. Hopefully Andy could find out and let us know, again apologies if I'm the only one who didn't know about this change, look forward to replies, regards Pete    

[John M Upton]

I haven't seen any evidence of any improvements, take my blue/grey Class 101 for example.  Originally purchased from the Bachmann scrum so presumably it's warranty return that saw it there was almost certainly cracked gears, after about two years of moderate frequent use, the gears cracked, sent it to Bachmann for paid repair, came back, worked for about another two days and the gears have just cracked yet again!!

[woodenhead]

Noooo don't tell me these things as I am about to unpack my Farish stuff aster two years in storage.

[Roy L S]

Gears on steam locos do seem far less susceptible to splitting that diesels in my experience, be they loco or tender drive. Clearly it does occasionally happen, but I haven't had a single one personally that I can recall.

 

For diesels however it is another story totally, even the more recent fatter Bachmann plastic gears do split albeit this may be batch specific as I have had problems with the Peaks, 108, old Class 20 and first new DCC ready 37 but not others.

 

However there are nylon gears on the Class 40s, new batch of B1s and I think the beautiful little C Class so it seems hopefully Bachmann are aware and improving matters in this respect as these definitely do not have the same propensity to split as the plastic gears.

 

Roy

[fezza]

The newer Farish Peaks were shocking - all four of mine split gears and needed repair. One of my 108s also split. It really put me off N gauge for a while but (touch wood) recent products seem more resilient.