RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted November 11, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 11, 2016 "I have a feeling that the Midland Railway depot close to St Pancras also had coal drops." It, or rather they, did, absolutely oodles of them. There were several MR coal depots, and an adjacent GN one, with drops in the area. We discussed it another thread, and I found some cracking photos in the NRM archive, but can't recall which thread! It would be worth scouring other big cities for drops too, because it would seem logical that they would have had dedicated coal depots, as in London. Birmingham? Edinburgh? Liverpool, Manchester and Bristol ..... although I wonder if these last three got most of their coal by water or very locally. K I don't recall any coal drops in the Birmingham area, all of the local yards seemed to be hand unloading from 7-planks and 16t minerals in my boyhood. When the CCD at Small Heath opened it was served by 21T hoppers. Nechells Power Station had a side-tipper and Coventry Power Station had a full rotating tipper. How much of the Midlands coalfields were served by the LNWR? Most of the Black Country pits were served by the GWR, I believe, whilst many of the pits around Nuneaton were linked to the Midland. In the main, Stourbridge and Dudley areas were connected to the GWR, many by the Pensnett Railway. The South Shropshire area around what is now Telford was served by a miriad of branches owned by both the GWR and LNWR. The LNW served much of the Cannock Chase coalfield but it was also crossed by the Midland's Walsall Wood branch. Hamstead Colliery at Birmingham and the Coventry/Bedworth area of the Warwickshire coalfied were LNWR. The Kingsbury and Stockingford areas of the Warwickshire coalfield were served by the Midland, although Baddesley Colliery was connected to both the Midland's Kingsbury Branch and the LNWR's Trent Valley line near Atherstone. The other thing to remember is that many of the collieries had connections to canals, e.g. Baddesley mentioned above had a basin on the Coventry Canal served by the line connecting the colliery to the LNWR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Michael Delamer has just posted a lovely photo in his 16t mineral thread, dating from 1961, of one of the coal yards at Halifax. No drops here, just acres of sidings and some poor sods with shovels; all remarkably clean, as though they're expecting a Royal visit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Somewhere, in a set of partially written-up notes, I've got coal consumption figures for London, about one per decade from the late C18th onwards, split by water and rail. When I found the figures, I was surprised that something like a third of the tonnage came by water, right up to the 1960s, partly because the main gasworks and power stations were sited by the river and took it by the big boatload. K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted November 12, 2016 Share Posted November 12, 2016 Somewhere, in a set of partially written-up notes, I've got coal consumption figures for London, about one per decade from the late C18th onwards, split by water and rail. When I found the figures, I was surprised that something like a third of the tonnage came by water, right up to the 1960s, partly because the main gasworks and power stations were sited by the river and took it by the big boatload. K I wouldn't be surprised, after the imposition of the legislation about 'Smokeless Zones', if the proportion of water-borne coal wasn't even greater. By then, the coal would have been despatched from the North-East in relatively large ships- the CEGB had their own vessels, I believe. When ships were still powered by coal-generated steam, I believe that steam coal from South Wales was taken to the GWR's Brentford Docks by rail, then transhipped on to lighters to be taken down-river to be used as bunker-fuel. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artless Bodger Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 A late comer to this topic, which along with other posts on coal yards etc are very interesting, thank you to everyone. Nearholmer mentions the Midland coal yard at Maidstone. I helped a friend in the Kent Archaeological Society to photograph and measure parts of the, by then, unused yard in the early 70s. I recall the coal yard was further north than the main goods yard and adjacent to the Royal Engineers barracks. The sidings were indeed on the flat, with spurs served by wagon turntables. The rails if I can recall correctly were short and double headed bullhead, very rusty and delaminating (iron rather than steel perhaps?). The yard had a separate road entrance with a small brick hut. Coal deliveries to local paper mills varied - Tovil upper (Reeds) was a quite small mill (5 machines) and the coal was probably carted from the nearby Tovil goods branch terminal as there were no direct rail access to the mill. You could look into the boiler house (Lancashire type) from the road and see barrows and coal piles on the floor. Lower Tovil mill (Allnutts), where my grandfather worked, was even smaller (1 machine) and presumably also had coal carted in from the goods yard, as the branch crossed the road on a girder bridge just along from the gatehouse. In contrast the Reeds mill at Aylesford was in two parts, either side of the Strood - Paddock Wood line, each with its own connection. Coal was unloaded from the wagons by grab crane, either direct into the boilerhouse bunkers or onto a stockpile. The boilerhouse cranes were Stothert and Pitt dockside type (East mill actually took coal by water as well originally). The east mill stockpile was served by a Smith Rodley locomotive steam crane. The combined mill burned around 7000 tons a week at its height. Attached photo (scanned for me from stuff found during demolition) shows plenty of coal wagons, cranes unloading them etc. 3 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandora Posted December 17, 2019 Share Posted December 17, 2019 An operation at the L& Y coal drops at Sowerby Bridge in 1972, the coal drops still exist though OOU 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted December 17, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 17, 2019 34 minutes ago, Pandora said: An operation at the L& Y coal drops at Sowerby Bridge in 1972, the coal drops still exist though OOU Excellent film dont think climbing in the 21 tonne with the bottom door open is a good idea. Driver was flying about a bit! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandora Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 The Staithes at Halifax are Grade 2 Listed with English Heritage, very similar to the Staithes at Sowerby Bridge. https://historicengland.org.uk/listing/the-list/list-entry/1272545. The link includes a thumbnail to a better image. The Calder Valley is one of my favoured venues when I have a 48 hour R&R pass. The former Goods Office at Sowerby Bridge Station is now a Pub where railway enthusiasts meet , and I enjoy visiting Hebden Bridge for the bacon sandwiches in the station cafe on the Leeds bound platform or the Trades Club in the town Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davefromacrossthepond Posted December 18, 2019 Author Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) I have to say round two of this thread has been just as interesting to me as the first. What makes the latest posts even more interesting to me is the increased amount of knowledge I have gained over the past three years in both British prototype and model railways - nearly all of it has been gained through all the fine folks on this website. I am looking forward to seeing how much more I will learn about this and other topics! You guys rock!! Edited December 19, 2019 by davefromacrossthepond typos Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandora Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) On 12/11/2016 at 13:16, Fat Controller said: I wouldn't be surprised, after the imposition of the legislation about 'Smokeless Zones', if the proportion of water-borne coal wasn't even greater. By then, the coal would have been despatched from the North-East in relatively large ships- the CEGB had their own vessels, I believe. When ships were still powered by coal-generated steam, I believe that steam coal from South Wales was taken to the GWR's Brentford Docks by rail, then transhipped on to lighters to be taken down-river to be used as bunker-fuel. Coal (and Wine) transported into London was subject to a tax, that tax was very enduring , St Pauls Cathedral was financed by the tax to name an example. London was ringed by boundary markers which may be seen from trains and canals, the radius of the boundary markers is roughly that of the M25, those that still exist are protected. Here is a link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal-tax_post A list of locations where they may be seen : https://archive.is/20121224102205/http://www.rhaworth.myby.co.uk/coalwine/postlist.htm Edited December 18, 2019 by Pandora 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnofwessex Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 On 11/11/2016 at 18:17, Fat Controller said: I think you might be correct about the position of coal traffic on the L&B during the early days. At the time the L&B arrived in London, however, the settlements to the north of Euston were probably much more like a series of large villages, rather than the solid urbanisation we see today. As such, each settlement next to the railway probably had its own coal depot. Bristol certainly seems to have developed like that; R A Cooke's excellent book of track plans of the Bristol area only has one dedicated coal depot shown, that of Western Fuels at Wapping Wharf which opened as late as 1966, and closed to rail in 1987. I have seen views showing coal wagons being dealt with at Pylle Hill goods depot, and know that coal merchants had facilities at Montpelier and Clifton Down. One Bristol coal merchant bought the ex S&D steamer Radstock & shipped coal from South Wales to Bristol in it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SM42 Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 (edited) It has been mentioned elsewhere on RMweb that there are the remains of coal drops at Bridgnorth station. Just behind the current SVR car park. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@52.5324072,-2.4214468,3a,71.1y,271.18h,88.27t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sWwQFXmPd8PrHMIREiJDhzA!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo3.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DWwQFXmPd8PrHMIREiJDhzA%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D125.5691%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i13312!8i6656 Exacly what wagons would have used these I don't know And of course some of the Shropshire coal field was served by what is now the SVR. I have a vague recollection of being told, or reading, that Alveley Colliery had a rope way across the River Severn to the railway Andy Edited December 22, 2019 by SM42 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted December 22, 2019 Share Posted December 22, 2019 On 18/12/2019 at 21:24, Pandora said: Coal (and Wine) transported into London was subject to a tax, that tax was very enduring , St Pauls Cathedral was financed by the tax to name an example. London was ringed by boundary markers which may be seen from trains and canals, the radius of the boundary markers is roughly that of the M25, those that still exist are protected. Here is a link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coal-tax_post One shilling and one penny per ton. Imposed by the Corporation of London in 1666 for, as you say, to pay for the rebuilding of St Paul's amongst other buildings. There were various schemes to get round the payment of this tax. There is a location on the canal near Watford known as Lady Capel's Wharf. This was the nearest point to the London boundary where coal could be unloaded tax free. The inlet where boats could unload and turn round can still be seen from the towpath. As you say, very enduring, as the canal was not built until about 130+ years after the introduction of the tax. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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