RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted November 9, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 9, 2016 The BBC have reported that the driver has been arrested. My thoughts and condolences fot those who heve lost their lives or been injured. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted November 9, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 9, 2016 Perhaps we should all take a moment to ponder the human side of this tragedy. Stu The BBC reporting 5 fatalities. They also state the driver has been arrested by the BTP on unspecified charges. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted November 9, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2016 RIP. Five confirmed dead (Source BTP via BBC news) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
modelpara Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 The BBC reporting 5 fatalities. They also state the driver has been arrested by the BTP on unspecified charges. Note to all. Please remember that an arrest does not mean guilt, it is also a tool to preserve evidence. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 I was about to say about the driver being arrested and likened that to the SPAD at Hitchin was it where the train driver was arrested. Have a look at the layout on google maps, it is a very sharp corner with a transition into it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted November 9, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) I was about to say about the driver being arrested and likened that to the SPAD at Hitchin was it where the train driver was arrested. Have a look at the layout on google maps, it is a very sharp corner with a transition into it. Careful - what you are saying is speculation. You may personally see similarities between the two incidents but its premature to link them at this stage. Given the severity of the incident its quite likely the RAIB will issue some sort if statement giving basic facts relatively quickly - if only to try and prevent excessive speculation in the media. Until that happens we should be wary about suggesting causes. Edited November 9, 2016 by phil-b259 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Arresting drivers seems to have become the norm at road accidents where injury or death has occured as well in recent times . Has there been a change in either the law or its application that has brought this about? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) Careful - what you are saying is speculation. You may personally see similarities between the two incidents but its premature to link them at this stage. Given the severity of the incident its quite likely the RAIB will issue some sort if statement giving basic facts relatively quickly - if only to try and prevent excessive speculation in the media. Until that happens we should be wary about suggesting causes. No Phil, that's not what I'm saying. what I'm saying is how quick the police are nowadays to arrest train drivers for possible misdemeanours. As Brian says above. To answer an earlier question, yes, my son's friend has posted pictures of his facial injuries on Facebook. he says he's still in A&E awaiting a CT scan because of where he bumped his head. Nathan is his first name. Edited November 9, 2016 by roythebus Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ian J. Posted November 9, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 9, 2016 This news sounds pretty horrendous in this day and age. I hope all those injured will be ok. For those who've died it's their relatives and friends who will need comforting. As regards cause, I'd rather wait to hear an official report than indulge in speculation*. *I'm still waiting to hear official report in to James Horner's air crash death from June last year, so sometimes these things take a while. But I'd still rather wait. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 . . . how quick the police are nowadays to arrest train drivers for possible misdemeanours. And not just train drivers, but also lorry, car, bus and now tram drivers. Arrest is usually only on suspicion of an offence having been committed and doesn't mean guilt or even that one has been committed. Any evidence collected would be used to establish that and any resulting charge. G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted November 9, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 9, 2016 No Phil, that's not what I'm saying. what I'm saying is how quick the police are nowadays to arrest train drivers for possible misdemeanours. As Brian says above. To answer an earlier question, yes, my son's friend has posted pictures of his facial injuries on Facebook. he says he's still in A&E awaiting a CT scan because of where he bumped his head. Nathan is his first name. I'm sure fellow RMWebbers will join me in wishing your son a speedy recovery - and I'm not just talking about physical injuries here as I imagine he witnessed some quite traumatic things as the accident unfolded. While naturally our thoughts also go out to those who may have lost lived ones in this incident it is perhaps worth remembering that any given month easily sees more than 5 people killed on our roads - and I doubt their pain is any less. Its a testament to the safety record of our railways / tramways that such a loss of life is extremely rare. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tamperman36 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Now is definatley not the time to speculate on the possible cause, we should at the moment allow those who have lost loved ones time to greave and offer our condolences, wish those who have suffered injuries a speedy recovery and allow the police and RAIB the space and time to discover the cause. As for the driver, we should also allow him some privacy and time to speak to the authorities without pointing blame on anyone or any thing. The driver being arrested is just standard procedure nowadays. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 (edited) Arresting drivers seems to have become the norm at road accidents where injury or death has occured as well in recent times . Has there been a change in either the law or its application that has brought this about? From my conversations with police representatives, when I was at work - their procedures changed some time ago, and now virtually all RTAs are treated as potential crime scenes. This was what made a recent episode of Coronation Street (sorry, I have watched it since the 1960s) unbelievable; when David Platt overturned the car he was driving along a cobbled back street (which would most likely be a 20mph zone nowadays) and collided with a child, who was miraculously unhurt. Despite the obvious speeding charge, never mind dangerous driving etc., the police just allowed him to walk away from the scene and go home. They didn't even breathalyse him. . And to make matters worse, although most of the witnesses repaired to the Rovers Return for a drink, none of them were interviewed by the police immediately after the accident. Edited November 9, 2016 by jonny777 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PenrithBeacon Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Driver reportedly arrested. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/nov/09/croydon-tram-crash-five-trapped-40-injured Regards Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstubbs Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Sincere condolences to all those who have lost loved ones in this incident. Arrest is usually only on suspicion of an offence having been committed and doesn't mean guilt In law the only thing that means guilt is a verdict in court. Remember: innocent until proven... Arresting drivers seems to have become the norm at road accidents where injury or death has occured as well in recent times . Has there been a change in either the law or its application that has brought this about? Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 (Not wishing to plagiarise someone else's concise and informative posting on another forum, I shall simply post a link to it.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Free At Last Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 PenrithBeacon, on 09 Nov 2016 - 15:56, said: Driver reportedly arrested. Regards How come this has not been mentioned before.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointstaken Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Can we wait until the facts are known ? Bandwaggon jumping may be a popular sport, but it adds nothing whatsoever to the accident account. Dennis Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted November 9, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2016 I'm assuming the tram must have come from New Addington rather than Beckenham as stated earlier, and so it must have derailed on the left hand curve rather than the right. If it had come from Beckenham it would not have passed through the tunnel, the vehicles are the wrong way up to have come from Beckenham (they would have had to have rolled right over) and the overhead is all still standing within the triangle of the junction. Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Colin_McLeod Posted November 9, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2016 How come this has not been mentioned before.... Perhaps because it was not known before. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 Perhaps because it was not known before. It was first mentioned in Post 26; 15 posts earlier. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 From my conversations with police representatives, when I was at work - their procedures changed some time ago, and now virtually all RTAs are treated as potential crime scenes. This was what made a recent episode of Coronation Street (sorry, I have watched it since the 1960s) unbelievable; when David Platt overturned the car he was driving along a cobbled back street (which would most likely be a 20mph zone nowadays) and collided with a child, who was miraculously unhurt. Despite the obvious speeding charge, never mind dangerous driving etc., the police just allowed him to walk away from the scene and go home. They didn't even breathalyse him. . And to make matters worse, although most of the witnesses repaired to the Rovers Return for a drink, none of them were interviewed by the police immediately after the accident. Its called Drama . Nothing whatsoever in relation to the Law and its enforcement in this country and I expect anywhere else in the world. You can pull similar holes in anything from The Bill to any other murder/ thriller production. Normally if they followed how it is dealt with real life it would be too boring for most and no sensationalism at all and take far too long for a TV slot to show what might or might not happen. With relation to the drivers arrest quite rightly he or she has to be detained to secure evidence and questioning in due course. The driver can attend voluntarily as well depending on the evidence to the particular offence at a Police Station , that would be highly unusual and the facts would have to be very clear cut for that to happen. In this case with a minimum of five deaths its simply impossible for the Police not to detain the driver , you could be looking at numerous offences etc etc, pending the very big investigation as the cause(s) of this incident/accident. Thoughts with all the families of all parties involved in this tragedy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
inglenookfan Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 To be honest i think as soon as anyone starts a post about an accident it should be locked or removed. It will put a stop to armchair investigation and sharing uninformed speculation and accusation so rmweb doesnt lower itself to the same poor standards of the uk media. When all the facts are presented and relatives and injured have had time to grieve then talk about it if you really cant help yourselves. That or re-educate and join a body of professional accident investigation and help make a difference. For the love of god just close this. It is the same as all the other accident topics and pointless. Inglenookfan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 For the love of god just close this. It is the same as all the other accident topics and pointless. If it's locked it means that updates on known information cannot be posted. What gets topics locked is bad speculation, irrelevancies or arguments. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
grahame Posted November 9, 2016 Share Posted November 9, 2016 In law the only thing that means guilt is a verdict in court. Remember: innocent until proven... Unfortunately government changed that for some offences many years ago. You are considered guilty and have to prove your innocence for many vehicle offences - for example if it was not the car owner who was driving where a car is photographed speeding, driving in a bus lane, or not paying the London congestion charge. G. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted November 9, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 9, 2016 RAIB quick off the mark. Suggesting excessive speed: https://www.gov.uk/government/news/fatal-tram-accident-in-croydon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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