BP Chemicals - bulk salt traffic?

[9FEd]

I'm currently modifying some old Lima PGA wagons to represent the Procor built salt specific PGA wagons that operated flows from Folly Lane and Middlewich.

 

As part of my search for suitable donor wagons I've noticed some Lima PGAs branded 'BP Chemicals - Bulk Salt' which appear to have a prototype basis (see: http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bpchemicalpga). 

 

Can anyone tell me about the BP Chemicals salt traffic? It appears it only operated 1971-76 but I'd be interested to know if it lasted longer and the main sites that it ran between. 

 

Grateful for any input! 

[Fat Controller]

One site it ran to was that at Baglan Bay, between Port Talbot and Neath; I think the main use was to produce vinyl chloride monomer, using feedstock from the nearby Llandarcy refinery. Weren't the salt wagons somewhat longer and higher than those used for aggregates?

[hmrspaul]

They were a unique design     http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bpchemicalpga

 

    Some retained BP lettering into 1980 http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/bpchemicalpga/e494caf3

 

Paul

[toffee]

Remember seeing that train going past Canton northbound around 9pm ish about 74-76, we used to call it " the BP chem " , well zero for originality I guess ! Used to be pulled by ( usually ) a Crewe duff, used to have a blue plastic cover ??? Sorry the memory has faded badly.

[9FEd]

Weren't the salt wagons somewhat longer and higher than those used for aggregates?

Thanks all - the wagons were higher and longer although the Lima PGAs still can be successfully modified - one approach is to mate two different wagons to make a single wagon of the right length. 

[Fat Controller]

Thanks all - the wagons were higher and longer although the Lima PGAs still can be successfully modified - one approach is to mate two different wagons to make a single wagon of the right length. 

A man after my own heart; you can't beat a good bit of cut'n'shut. What will you use for suspension, given that the BP wagons have leaf-springs, rather than coils?

[9FEd]

A man after my own heart; you can't beat a good bit of cut'n'shut. What will you use for suspension, given that the BP wagons have leaf-springs, rather than coils?

Indeed! Actually, I'm not (yet) modelling the BP wagons - just interested in them (I'm modelling the wagons that ran to British Salt (Middlewich) and ICI Salt (Folly Lane) 

[juggy0_1]

Indeed! Actually, I'm not (yet) modelling the BP wagons - just interested in them (I'm modelling the wagons that ran to British Salt (Middlewich) and ICI Salt (Folly Lane) 

if you try Facebook theres  Middlewich past & present site which sometimes posts copies of a magazine called 'Salt News' i think, the last edition had pictures of the middlewich salt works with pictures of the track layout/sidings etc and pic of a 31 ( i think ) shunting some of the salt wagons.

 

Darren

[pharrc20]

Don't forget there were 2 designs of PGAs for bulk salt traffic. The first design by Standard Wagon in the early 1970s as per the links provided by Paul Bartlett using chassis and leaf suspension similar to the TTA petroleum tanks. These were known as 'Baby Salts' and most were later resprung and used in ball clay, aggregates and abrasives traffic before eventually being stored. Quite a few ended up stored at Hindlow near Buxton and stayed there until the late 1990s before being taken away by road for scrap.

The second design by Procor is of similar style to the Lima PGA model but involves doing a cut n shut to the body and chassis to extend to the correct wheelbase and body length. Most of these remained in salt traffic from Middlewich others were used from Grassington for Tilcon traffic. Two batches of these wagons were built. Chassis from both were eventually used under Railtrack PNA ballast/spoil open wagons. Scrap that last bit sorry thinking of something else whoops!

I am modelling the first version for aggregates traffic when they were used in Peak District in late 80s early 90s.

HTH Paul

Edited January 15, 2017 by pharrc20

[The Johnster]

Yes indeed Toffee.

 

One of my regular turns, Canton traincrew relieved Hereford on the empties and worked down to Briton Ferry, where the pilot took them into Baglan Bay BP works, and then worked the loaded back up for relief by my link to Hereford.  Class 6 55mph fully fitted air braked, and always fully loaded, but I can't remember the headcode, obviously 6M something and 6V on the empties.  You had to keep an eye on the fastenings for the blue nylon covers, which would come off sometimes and white sodium chloride dust would blow all over the place; it stung a bit if you got it in your eyes.  It was highly corrosive if it got rained on, which I think is why they used aluminium bodied wagons for it.  I used to keep a length of nylon cord in my satchel for such events after getting caught out at Pontrilas one night and having to beg something from the signalman.

 

Your memory's not that bad, toffee, 21.00 or perhaps a little earlier sounds about right; 20.50 relief at Canton sidings sounds familiar but it's a long time ago.  Never saw anything but an air braked 47 on it.  It was a nice easy little job, so long as the covers stayed on, and you'd be in Hereford in time for the last passenger back on the cushions; I don't recall ever having back working with this turn.

Edited January 16, 2017 by The Johnster

[ashl3y60]

Hi, could anyone be able to help? Got three Lima PGA's and looking to convert them into the bulk salt version, anyone know where to find the dimensions for extending the lima version?

 

Thanks,

-Ash 

[Castleacreshunter]

Page 9 in RailwayWagon Plans 1960s to the present by John L Fox there are photographs and two plans. Malcolm

[Mark Saunders]

Use the wheelbase and over headstocks measurements off the diagram rather than scale off the drawing!

 

All you need to do is work out where to do the cuts and I you are going to stretch three or just make two?

 

Greg Brooks did some which are now on Shenstone Road!

 

Mark Saunders

[Swindon 123]

Use the wheelbase and over headstocks measurements off the diagram rather than scale off the drawing!

 

All you need to do is work out where to do the cuts and I you are going to stretch three or just make two?

 

Greg Brooks did some which are now on Shenstone Road!

 

Mark Saunders

Link to the above wagon mark is talking about here on the EM70's website.

http://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/eastwell_hopsalt.jpg

 

Or the full page, Rocksalt hopper is about 2/3 down.

http://www.emgauge70s.co.uk/project_hoppers.html

 

To give you an idea of how the wagon was done I have one photo of it in part built condition. It does show the cut lines were I used the ends off one wagon and grafted them onto the body, minus the ends, of another wagon. It has to be done this way to keep the proportions and details of the hopper correct in relation to the longer wheelbase. Unfortunately it appears I only took the one photo, see below.

 

 

I hope the above links and the photo help. With 3 Lima hoppers you should be able to make two salt hoppers with carefulcalculations and cutting.

 

Paul J.

[Wayne 37901]

Hi Paul,

 

I'm glad you posted that photo, I currently have 4 Lima PGAs on their way to me destined to become salt hoppers.

 

Many thanks for posting it up, it makes the job of locating where to cut much easier. With my 4 I should be able to get 3 salts.

 

Cheers