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16xx and Simplex by ModelWright


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Rather than resurrect my old CAD designing thread (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83722-twrights-4mm-cad-workbench-series-2-land-rover/) which I stopped updating after switching to facebook, I felt that a new thread was needed as I was no longer just covering 4mm scale items.

 

Recently I accepted a commission for a 16mm scale simplex body, utilising one of my original 20hp types and also a brand new 40hp type. These can be seen below and will lead to finer 009 versions (of which 1 has already been produced). I am yet to finish the detailing of the 40hp type so only a basic cab interior is produced at the moment.

 

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Also, I recently bought a Bachmann 64xx (because it was cheap) but thought as I hadn't got much use for one that I could use the chassis for my 16xx as I never fully mastered pick-ups and completing it after having it printed. I thought that people like me with no chassis building experience might prefer to use a RTR chassis for simplicity. The wheelbase is the same and the front and back overhangs aren't too wildly different. The wheels are a different diameter but that isn't too noticeable. I am going to modify my drawing to accept the 64xx chassis to make it an easier kit only requiring painting and detailing. A composite picture done on paint to show what I can see, my camera doesn't show it very well.

 

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Work will eventually restart on the Land Rover and some of my other projects once I have dealt with my Simplexes and the 16xx.

I am still open to take commissions of small items/details if wanted and if you wanted one of the models in a different scale then it could be accommodated.

If you want to see what I have available, clink the link in my signature.

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Didn't realise that was a 40hp one till noticed name when browsing over picture. When you talk topeople about a 40hp Simlex they tend to thing Tin Turtle. 

 

Yes, they do. I came across them at Leighton Buzzard and their earlier sand quarries. it gives more variety on a narrow gauge line rather than always having ex WW1 locos, there weere thousands built afterwards to different patterns.

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Have to be careful on naming. According to the Moseley Trust book the 40hp is the Tin Turtle. I wonder if it was a modified one, but quick look in the book could not see it. 

 

It has a straight channel frame so is not the same as the turtle. It is based on simplex no.43 at the LBLR which is described on the website as a 40hp simplex built in 1954.

Edited by Twright
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Have you got the Simplex bok done by the Moseley Trust? It has a ful list of locos still existing. The Moseley Trust have the info on all Simplex locos,so trust what they publish. I cross checked the LBLR list with the Moseley trust info.

No 43 is works number 10409 which is a 32/42 HP . That is the way it is classified. In practice it might be a 40hp engine, but officially that is not how it is described. When I was looking through the book, I thought it might be that one , as it has the extra weight(?) at front end.

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Have you got the Simplex bok done by the Moseley Trust? It has a ful list of locos still existing. The Moseley Trust have the info on all Simplex locos,so trust what they publish. I cross checked the LBLR list with the Moseley trust info.

No 43 is works number 10409 which is a 32/42 HP . That is the way it is classified. In practice it might be a 40hp engine, but officially that is not how it is described. When I was looking through the book, I thought it might be that one , as it has the extra weight(?) at front end.

 

I don't have the Moseley Trust book however, I have the Leighton Buzzard Light railway book (Oldfield Press I think) which is how I have plans and information of them and yes it is described as a 38/42hp loco. In practice my 20hp simplexes should be 20/28hp as well but for simplicity for those who don't understand the full differences I am leaving them as their nominal hps. In the model descriptions the actual classified hps are given.

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maybe I am being a bit pedantic, but when the manufacturer uses a specific term/name to refer to one of their products, then in the same way some expect a model to be spot on, the terminology should be correct,so that there is no confusion, as I was when I saw the reference to 40hp.

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Subject to any final changes when the print arrives, the 16xx body for the 64xx is finished. It has finer details than the original version and some changed details to make it more correct (although most of the cab detail has been removed to accommodate the gears so I advise you to put a crew in or use a replacement backhead). It is also now a 1 piece body to simplify the printing. I believe it represents the first 50 members better as the spare lamp irons moved from the middle splasher to the front splasher past roughly 1650 however this is a minor change. When it become available it will require hand rails and other fine details to complete along with a 64xx chassis. Since these pictures the fixings for the 64xx chassis have been added.

 

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  • 2 months later...

The body for the 16xx arrived a while ago but I have only recently had time to finish painting and detailing the loco itself (see below).

 

To modify the 64xx chassis I removed aproximately 5-6mm off the rear, unscrewed the dcc blanking plate (leaving it attached) and shortened then reglued the rear coupling (this depends on what coupling you use). I added a bit of weight to the chassis, though you can add weight into the tanks and the bunker if you want. The 64xx chassis has the correct wheelbase but the wheels are slightly oversize although this isn't that noticeable in normal viewing. Because it is a RTR chassis it also retains the ability to be DCC chipped.

 

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The gap between the 2 sides of the running plate and the wheel arches (red line) is 21.5mm however, I don't know if this is sufficient for EM or P4 conversions.

 

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The body can be sanded down to get a perfectly smooth finish at this time and you can add rivet detail (I didn't). I removed the details off my donor 64xx and refitted them to the 16xx. This is shown as the black bits in the pictures, none of which are included in the 3D print (except the cab steps (which I had already painted and the front tank step which I had cut off by accident, see the previous post with the pictures of the 3D drawing to show what is included). I reused all the handrails (and made 2 more for the grab handles over the front steps and replaced the cab ones as they are of a different design), the smokebox dart, vacuum pipes, bunker fire iron hooks, injector pipework, and the rear cab window grilles, although I advise you to use and etch to improve the appearance even more.

 

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I also cut off the body fixings from the 64xx body and glued them on to the 16xx, checking where they would need to be by fitting the chassis into the body. (the picture was taken later and the roughness at the cab end is because this is a prototype, the modifications have been made to the 3D drawing)

 

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The blank for the coal in the bunker could be fitted now, I used a piece of plasticard. Obviously if you want to add weight into the bunker do it before fitting the blank. I then spray painted the body, giving it several coats, grey primer (and then a check to see if I was happy) and then a couple of coats of black. I used Halfords satin black car paint (other brands available and you might not want it in black). This loco was detailed to be 1639, from the early batch, the later batch will be release shortly. Available here: https://www.shapeways.com/product/RQQCZE5SV/?key=c44cf51b92dfde05a75f8b15dd48805f

 

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Once painted, I then picked out the buffer beams and reverser in red (I used Humbrol 220). I also added coal, glazing (clear plasticard), transfers for BR late crest (Modelmaster, other brands available), number plates (Narrow planet, other brands available), lamps and bucket (ModelWright). I might also add crew at some point, and the boiler backhead from the 64xx could be fitted into the cab. 

 

 

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Edit to remove excess pictures

Edited by Twright
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I really like your 16xx body but for me the wheels look  far too big.

 

I see that some 3D producers, even in O, are doing 3D printed chassis. I'm not sure how well they work or if they will prove durable but it could be an option worth looking at.

 

Thanks, I agree the wheels are a bit on the big size, but as it is only the body that is included, you don't have to use the 64xx chassis.

I did try a 3D printed chassis, detailed on another thread( http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83722-twrights-4mm-cad-workbench-series-2-land-rover/?p=1689002 ) and it is still available (code W101 on ModelWright) but I wasn't happy with my version (I'm not good at building up gearboxes/pick-ups).

The body has slightly less detail than the new one but is still good (in the future I will aply some of the new details to the old one).

 

The old one minus coupling rods and a few other bits:

 

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Edited by Twright
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  • 3 months later...

*Shameless plug* 

 

The 16xx has made it into the news section of the June issue of Railway Modeller.

 

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In other ModelWright news an 009 60S simplex has been released to complement the new 20hp types. These are all completely new and offer much higher levels of detail. They are designed for a World craft chassis to allow them to work while retaining an empty cab.

 

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Edited by Twright
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Thanks, I agree the wheels are a bit on the big size, but as it is only the body that is included, you don't have to use the 64xx chassis.

I did try a 3D printed chassis, detailed on another thread( http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/83722-twrights-4mm-cad-workbench-series-2-land-rover/?p=1689002 ) and it is still available (code W101 on ModelWright) but I wasn't happy with my version (I'm not good at building up gearboxes/pick-ups).

The body has slightly less detail than the new one but is still good (in the future I will aply some of the new details to the old one).

 

The old one minus coupling rods and a few other bits:

 

attachicon.gifIMG_4447.jpg

 

attachicon.gifIMG_4448.jpg

 

attachicon.gifIMG_4449.jpg

Now that South Eastern Finecast have rereleased their 16xx kit, it means that a correct up-to-date etched chassis is also available, so could be modified to fit under your 3D body.

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Now that South Eastern Finecast have rereleased their 16xx kit, it means that a correct up-to-date etched chassis is also available, so could be modified to fit under your 3D body.

 

I'll admit I wasn't aware that it had been re released, thanks for letting me know. I imagine that it would fit without too much hassle and some of the castings could be used to add the extra details required.

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All it needs now is a decent bevel and spur gearbox.

 

If I can get the right plugin/program to do it then I might investigate it again this summer. The trouble with the last ones was that the space that its trying to fit in was so small the bevels couldn't engage properly, and the material was too brittle to allow it to fit onto the axles or to screw grub screws into secure the necessary cogs.

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  • 5 months later...

Hi Tom,

 

Some great work here with the Simplex's.  A real favourite of mine and I will be looking to get one.The LBNGR ones are quite spirited performers and I believe they are named after race horses!

 

I've also a question about the 16xx print:

 

 https://www.shapeways.com/product/RQQCZE5SV/w104-16xx-pannier-body-for-64xx-chassis-early?optionId=61831578

 

Horsetan's and CK's suggestion/enquiry about using a suitable etched chassis is something I'd agree with.  Also with the print would you be able to do a stripped down version minus buffers, chimney, tank fillers and dome leaving mounting holes in the print so they could be sourced separately? 

 

Both great projects by the way.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

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  • 1 month later...
  • RMweb Gold

Has anyone actually seen one of these16xx?

 

There seems to be 4 on offer ranging from £50 to £87.16.

 

£50.02 https://www.shapeways.com/product/6EAJDX8NR/w102-16xx-pannier-modified

 

£50.91 https://www.shapeways.com/product/XFNHCM8ZG/w101-16xx-pannier?optionId=42945063&li=marketplace

 

£87.16 https://www.shapeways.com/product/RQQCZE5SV/w104-16xx-pannier-body-for-64xx-chassis-early?optionId=61831578

Edited by Pannier Tank
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Sorry for not getting back to you all, I have been away for a while dealing with a lot of other things.

 

 

Tom - do you know if anyone has tried fitting the Branchlines chassis to your 3-D printed body yet, please?

 

I don't know if anyone has. I know someone is starting a build using a Nucast chassis. I don't see why it wouldn't work with my CADs.

 

Hi Tom,

 

Some great work here with the Simplex's.  A real favourite of mine and I will be looking to get one.The LBNGR ones are quite spirited performers and I believe they are named after race horses!

 

I've also a question about the 16xx print:

 

 https://www.shapeways.com/product/RQQCZE5SV/w104-16xx-pannier-body-for-64xx-chassis-early?optionId=61831578

 

Horsetan's and CK's suggestion/enquiry about using a suitable etched chassis is something I'd agree with.  Also with the print would you be able to do a stripped down version minus buffers, chimney, tank fillers and dome leaving mounting holes in the print so they could be sourced separately? 

 

Both great projects by the way.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark

 

Hi Mark

 

Thanks, I'm glad you like them.

When I first completed the 16xx when I was still getting started I did a completely stripped down version similar to what you suggest however in the years it was available no-one bought any so when I finished the updated version, I removed it from sale to focus on the updated ones. I will investigate stripping one back if you want though with my current work load it might take a while.

 

Regards

 

 

 

 

Hi

 

W101 and W102 are my early, less detailed versions, which are designed for the cheaper WSF plastic and are only for building with a kit chassis. W104 and W105 are my later, more detailed versions which are for use with the Bachmann 64xx chassis using a higher detail print, hence the higher price.

 

Hope that helps. See post 11 on this page for pictures of my finished one.

Regards

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Hi Tom.

 

Thanks for the message earlier this morning. (Yes, this is my RMWeb alter ego.) 

 

I'm modelling Tetbury which, whilst predominantly served by 14xx autotanks, was also heavily served by 1664 before closure, so a 16xx is desirable for variety.  There's a great photo of 1664 on my Tetbury build thread here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107979-tetbury/page-4

 

I'm just awaiting for the Shapeways order to come through, and ordered the chassis for the 16xx from Branchlines this morning (Apparently I got the last one in stock!) 

 

I've ordered W102 so I get the 3D modelled frames/chassis to keep my options open. I worked out that I have three solutions:

 

1/ Use the wheelsets from the Branchlines/Nu-Cast kit to wheel the 3D frames, as I'm far more happier modelling in plastic than brass.

2/ Make up the Branchlines/Nu-Cast  frame and pop it under the W102 body shell.

3/ Rewheel a 64xx chassis with the Branchlines wheelsets given that the axle spacings are correct.

 

The forth option of course is to use the 64xx chassis unaltered, but that's probably the least desirable solution as those 64xx wheels are just simply too big!

 

Just waiting for everything to arrive and I'll let you know how I get on and which option works.

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Hi Tom.

 

Thanks for the message earlier this morning. (Yes, this is my RMWeb alter ego.) 

 

I'm modelling Tetbury which, whilst predominantly served by 14xx autotanks, was also heavily served by 1664 before closure, so a 16xx is desirable for variety.  There's a great photo of 1664 on my Tetbury build thread here: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/107979-tetbury/page-4

 

I'm just awaiting for the Shapeways order to come through, and ordered the chassis for the 16xx from Branchlines this morning (Apparently I got the last one in stock!) 

 

I've ordered W102 so I get the 3D modelled frames/chassis to keep my options open. I worked out that I have three solutions:

 

1/ Use the wheelsets from the Branchlines/Nu-Cast kit to wheel the 3D frames, as I'm far more happier modelling in plastic than brass.

2/ Make up the Branchlines/Nu-Cast  frame and pop it under the W102 body shell.

3/ Rewheel a 64xx chassis with the Branchlines wheelsets given that the axle spacings are correct.

 

The forth option of course is to use the 64xx chassis unaltered, but that's probably the least desirable solution as those 64xx wheels are just simply too big!

 

Just waiting for everything to arrive and I'll let you know how I get on and which option works.

 

Hi Chris

 

Thats alright. thats a good picture (as an aside for detailing, as it is the later batch of 16xx the spare lamp irons are by the front splasher on the firemans side). I'll have a read through the rest of the build in a bit.

 

Thats good news. As I said to you earlier, and for the benefit of everyone else, while the plastic chassis works, its very temperamental so I would recommend option 2 for a build of the 16xx. Option 3 and 4 would also work but would need a bit of cutting of the body to fit the chassis and as you say using the 64xx does have the compromise of the oversize wheels (which worked for me as I couldn't get a kit chassis to work).

 

Thanks, I look forward to seeing how it goes.

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