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Hornby announce Class 800 IEP


Andy Y
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Are Hornby's N Gauge ambitions from a couple of years ago dead & buried?...

 You would have to ask, the Hornby team are responding. The way I read it at the time of the N Belle release, it was 'if this makes the necessary profit, then there is the possibililty of a future N production'. Just how well they did with the Belle, that is known to Hornby alone, so is the IEP, a possibilitee?

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Lost all hope in any more N gauge from Hornby, apparently they were testing the waters, however to me they chose an obscure prototype. I also felt that there was a lack of original 5-BEL units made and the BR Blue 5-BELs were over produced.


Lost all hope in any more N gauge from Hornby, apparently they were testing the waters, however to me they chose an obscure prototype. I also felt that there was a lack of original 5-BEL units made and the BR Blue 5-BELs were over produced.

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That is rather nice, however, the mode will only represent 800004 up to last week when the new style fuel tanks were fitted which now extend out inline with the skirts.

 

Interesting. The fuel tanks are 3/5ths along the underframe and housed inside the skirting. Would you instead mean the toilet tank found at one end of car? Would be interested to see a photo as I would agree, the end toilet tanks to seem to extrude outward from the rest of the central skirting.

 

Hoping someone can clear this for me, aren't the GWR Hitachi IEP Class 800's meant to be 5-car sets? And by 5-car sets I assume they mean 5 vehicles in total (2 power cars + 3 coaches). However the Hornby website shows the train pack with 2 power cars and 5 coaches, isn't that a 7-car set? Or have I made a thorough mess of all this?

 

I have put a list at the base of this posting which answers what the 800 series for IEP and ROSCO 802s shall look like once delivered.

As for coach formations:

 

5 car 800 series: Driving cab Pantograph Trailer Standard car (DPTS) - 2 x Motor Standard car’s (MS) - a Motor Composite car (MC) - Driving cab Pantograph Trailer First car (DPTF).

9 car 800 series: DPTS - 2 x MS - a Trailer Standard (TS with inner frame bogies) - MS - TS - MC - a Motor First (MF) - DPTF.

 

5 car 801 series: DPTS - MS - Motor electric only Standard (MeS) - a Motor electric only Composite car (MeC) - DPTF.

9 car 801 series: DPTS - MS - MeS - TS - MeS - TS - MeC - MeF - DPTF.

 

Please note on 801 series, the MS is technically a MeS but holds a PowerPack for contingency. I think the tech term is MeS-1 and the straight electric motor coaches are MeS-2.

 

Is Hornby likely to issue a 9-coach set in the foreseeable future?

 

I asked, I was told they have the CADs to do so and would be aware of the changes to bogies for the two TS with inner frames. I would certainly like a 9 car as these shall be more dominating on the ECML.

 

-----

 

Also, I did put this over on the 800 discussion in June/July. But it might be rather useful to modellers in the Hornby Class 800 thread:

 

GWR 5 car Hitachi 'Class 800 series' for Intercity Express Programme (IEP) and 'AT300 series' for Eversholt (All bi-mode - see notes on 801/0):

 

800001-800036 (IEP) (31-32 diagrammed Subject to Change (STC))

Weston-super-Mare (via Bristol Parkway), Bristol (via Bristol Parkway), Cardiff, Cotswolds (Gloucester & Cheltenham) and Exeter (Peak only via Weston-super-Mare).

 

802001-802022 (Eversholt) (19 diagrammed STC)

Penzance, Plymouth (10 car) and Cotswolds (Gloucester & Cheltenham - increasing Peak and popular off peak to 10 car with IEP 800001-800036).

 

GWR 9 car Hitachi sets for IEP and Eversholt:

 

801001-801021 (IEP) (Were to be full electric IEP sets/AT300s - but due to electrification delays now delivered as bi-mode. Please note still officially 801 series, whether this shall change to 800/3 series we await confirmation) (17-18 diagrammed STC)

Bristol (via Bath) and Swansea.

 

802101-802114 (Eversholt)

Plymouth (5 diagrammed STC) on stopping service two hourly. 802108-802114 - expected to *initially* operate Oxford and Westbury.

 

Total GWR Class 800 series: 93

 

IEP: 36 x 5 car and 21 x 9 car

Eversholt: 22 x 5 car and 14 x 9 car

 

Virgin Trains East Coast 5 car Hitachi 'Class 800 series' for Intercity Express Programme (IEP) (just list predominant destinations):

 

800201–210 (Bi-Mode) (8 diagrammed STC)

Lincoln, Harrogate, Sunderland, Huddersfield, Middlesborough, Hull, Stirling, Aberdeen, Inverness (Peak and popular off peak: Scottish service with 5 car electric to Edinburgh; England service with 5 car electric to York, Newcastle)

 

801101–112 (Electric) (10 diagrammed STC)

York, Bradford, Newcastle, Edinburgh, Glasgow (Peak and popular off peak: Scottish service with 5 car bi-mode to Edinburgh; England service with 5 car bi-mode to York, Newcastle)

 

Virgin Trains East Coast 9 car Hitachi 'Class 800 series' for IEP:

 

800101–113 (Bi-Mode) (10-11 diagrammed STC)

Aberdeen, Inverness (suspect on peak England services of 5 car bi-mode too)

 

801201–230 (Electric) (27 diagrammed STC)

Edinburgh, Glasgow

 

Total VTEC Class 800 series: 65

 

IEP: 22 x 5 car and 43 x 9 car

 

There is also (First) Transpennine Express 5 car Hitachi 'AT300 series' for Angel Trains (All Bi-Mode):

 

Unit numbers not announced. Expected 802 series. 802301-8023019

Liverpool - Newcastle - Edinburgh

 

and

 

(First) Hull Trains 5 car Hitachi 'AT300 series' for Angel Trains (All Bi-Mode):

 

Unit numbers not announced. Expected 802 series. Platform design based on either 800 series or AT300 design. PR would suggest the former.

London - Hull

Edited by 159220
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Nope, I definitely mean fuel tank. I flipping fitted them!

 

The tanks as designed finished some distance behind the skirt. They now follow the outer profile and add roughly 20% extra fuel capacity.

 

I wonder who is paying for these mods and alterations to the original spec.

 

If it is DafT then the costs should be made public.

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I wonder who is paying for these mods and alterations to the original spec.

 

If it is DafT then the costs should be made public.

 

 

I quite honestly don't know, some of the modifications are post testing, others are to make them more suited to a longer period running on diesel (larger adblue tanks, derestricting power packs, larger fuel tank)

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There are companies out there that'd be bankrupted if their customers ever figure out how to write a good contractual specification so they avoid variation orders. Age old tactic, bid low and mug the client when the variation orders start.

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I quite honestly don't know, some of the modifications are post testing, others are to make them more suited to a longer period running on diesel (larger adblue tanks, derestricting power packs, larger fuel tank)

 

 

Do the mods you've mentioned bring the IEP ordered 800's up to the same spec. as the TOC ordered 802's ?

 

 

 

.

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Do the mods you've mentioned bring the IEP ordered 800's up to the same spec. as the TOC ordered 802's ?

 

 

 

.

Not quite - there will still be differences. The west of England fleet will have more brake resistors for example so it can dynamic brake away from the overhead.

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Not quite - there will still be differences. The west of England fleet will have more brake resistors for example so it can dynamic brake away from the overhead.

 

Just as long as this doesn't mean they get mounted in places susceptible to salt water like the Voyagers!

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Just as long as this doesn't mean they get mounted in places susceptible to salt water like the Voyagers!

Uh they are on the roof just like a Voyager!

 

I look forward to pulling alongside an IET in my 143 to evacuate its passengers when the salt 'spray' has upset its computer.

 

TBH its a simple fix, just install a dynamic brake isolation switch, operate it between Exeter and Newton Abbot and it should have dried out by then, or is that a it too simple?

Edited by royaloak
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TBH its a simple fix, just install a dynamic brake isolation switch, operate it between Exeter and Newton Abbot and it should have dried out by then, or is that a it too simple?

Not too simple; probably too expensive  :jester:

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Uh they are on the roof just like a Voyager!

 

I look forward to pulling alongside an IET in my 143 to evacuate its passengers when the salt 'spray' has upset its computer.

 

TBH its a simple fix, just install a dynamic brake isolation switch, operate it between Exeter and Newton Abbot and it should have dried out by then, or is that a it too simple?

 

Hmm appears you are not familiar with the Intercity Express Programme Train Technical Specification.

 

I do not blame anyone for not reading the full 86 pages to which Hitachi must design their Class 800 series trains to, but if you did, you would be assured everything is covered to the last detail. 

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/...data/.../tts-redacted.pdf

 

TS1983 states:

 

 

Full Functionality of the IEP Trains must be maintained during and after exposure to salt water spray and such exposure must not cause excessive cosmetic degradation of exposed surfaces, components and equipment.

 

There are a few errors on the Hornby product pages too, I have emailed them a proofed document for them to consider suggested adjustments.

 

 

 

Special Edition now sold out on Hornby direct pre-orders

 

This is good news. I was concerned to see the limited edition had been released to the retailers when I pre-ordered at Warley on the Hornby site at full RRP. Good that it has now been ordered up to 250 units and away from the box shifters reducing the value of an limited edition! Hopefully not to many speculators have pre-ordered them! I shall be running mine and hoping Hornby shall follow with the three coaches.

 

I am told the pack shall contain special information to mark the programme?

Edited by 159220
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This is good news. I was concerned to see the limited edition had been released to the retailers when I pre-ordered at Warley on the Hornby site at full RRP. Good that it has now been ordered up to 250 units and away from the box shifters reducing the value of an limited edition! Hopefully not to many speculators have pre-ordered them! I shall be running mine and hoping Hornby shall follow with the three coaches.

 

I am told the pack shall contain special information to mark the programme?

 

I was certain I'd read the limited edition would be in a special presentation box etc. but I've no idea where I saw that.

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Hmm appears you are not familiar with the Intercity Express Programme Train Technical Specification.

I am very familiar with the Spec sheet thank you because I actually read all of it over a few nights (to ensure most of it stayed in my head) but I am not familiar with this 'salt spray' of which they speak, what I am familiar with is the several thousand gallons of salt water which gets dumped on the roof of the trains in the Dawlish area when Mother Nature is throwing a tantrum, but I would hardly call it spray!

Edited by royaloak
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I don't think it's announced yet as Azuma, although it's bound to follow. As far as I know the main release is GWR and there us a limited edition in Hitachi colours , but this is not Azuma

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I don't think it's announced yet as Azuma, although it's bound to follow. As far as I know the main release is GWR and there us a limited edition in Hitachi colours , but this is not Azuma

I think I may have gotten confused with the PR stuff between Virgin and Hitachi where they named one unit (with red vinyls on the body) "Azuma", whereas I think that was just a special livery done by Hitachi.

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The Limited Edition set is 800002, which on one end carries a Hitachi "Red Swoosh" livery (my own description :D ) and graphics from the various stakeholders in the IEP.

 

AZUMA branding is the one dreamt up by the Virgin PR gurus and is the livery currently carried by 800101.

 

GWR haven't named theirs yet (and may not do so), most official communications seem to prefer the title IET (Intercity Express Train) as opposed to Super Express Train which you quite often see bandied about.

Edited by Banger Blue
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Yes indeed, just to add some more details. 800101 is T37 in the Test Train programme, which was used by Virgin Trains East Coast for a PR event to name the Class 800 series (an evolution in the name of the SET by Hitachi which had power cars rather than underfloor power packs) trains delivered from Hitachi to Agility Trains East Ltd as the 'Azuma'. If you study the vinyls, you shall note they appear to be a red curtain reveling the Azuma. This is purely a PR livery and the livery to he held on the 'Azumi' shall be reveled shortly before delivery in 2018. (again vinyl likely but the IEP agreements do allow franchise holders to paint the trains if then returned to the base grey on completion of the franchise). 

 

800002 is T2, one of 12 pre-series / 'Test Trains' to be manufactured in Kasado works in Japan. I wonder does anyone hold a copy of the delivery and details list of the 12 test trains. I have mis-placed mine. I know some plans have evolved.

 

The livery on T2 is referred to as 'Hitachi Inspire the Next' and was done to celebrate the official opening of the Rail Innovation and Development Centre in Newton Aycliffe on 3rd Sept 2015. This forms Hornby's limited edition and I hope hope hope they shall release the three additional coaches.

 

Ironically, 800004 'GWR' livery is also for a PR event - the 'first' passenger run on the 30th June 2016 to celebrate 175th anniversary of the GWR. Though it is likely all IEP Class 800 series trains for Agility West Ltd and operated by GWR (who now seem to call them IETs in First Group PR) shall wear vinyl wraps similar to those on 800004. But all Class 802s for Eversholt and operated by GWR shall be painted (thus making the livery subtlety different - especially around doors and cctv).

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