Hornby Class 87 - Confirmed Newly Tooled Version for 2017 !

[ThaneofFife]

From that photo I reckon the standard Peco spacing would bring the tracks closer not further apart from each other.

 

If you are referring to the registration arms on opposite masts being at risk of touching each other then looking at that photo to me I don't think you would get this issue unless the track spacing narrows down to less than the Peco spacing near to those points.

 

Have you looked at the Dapol masts?

 

Failing that maybe look at making your own bespoke masts unless you were thinking of building a new layout anyway.

[GordonC]

Would there not normally be headspans across 4 running lines together anyway rather than individual masts? Certainly in the 1990s anyway even if thats not the case now

[Fairburn]

1 hour ago, GordonC said:

Would there not normally be headspans across 4 running lines together anyway rather than individual masts? Certainly in the 1990s anyway even if thats not the case now

 

Agreed, I’d expect to see a lattice headspan for Mk.1 OHL and a cable arrangement for Mk.3 and beyond. 

 

Recent electification around Salford and the Bolton - Preston line makes use of double track, single post with cantilever gantry (presumably due to comprised proximity or poor ground)  - but on quadruple track you’d expect to see a headspan. 

 

Clive Mortimore has produced some great detail drawings of the variation permutations.

[gazwire]

Have you had a look at N-brass locos overhead gantries? They really do look the business.

[ThaneofFife]

the headspans are more common on the ECML but over the WCML where you have passing loops you can often see single masts with double arms to cover a track on either side.

[cravensdmufan]

Thanks for all your suggestions re: OHLE folks - but I reckon Hornby's 87s together with the imminent Bachmann 90s now means I must get on and build a  new layout!  After all, we've all waited too long for decent AC traction and at last they are here!  Will be interesting to see if more overhead electric layouts appear at exhibitions. I saw the excellent Coppell last weekend, and that certainly fired my enthusiasm!

[Pete the Elaner]

On 27/02/2019 at 17:59, cravensdmufan said:

Yes Pete - I used Peco code 100 flexitrack  - nice flowing reverse curves which I was pleased with at the time.  But didn't use a track gauge so the distance between the running lines is narrower, so the Peco masts would have to be altered which I wouldn't want to do especially bearing in mind the cost of them!

 

I am not sure standard Peco spacing would have helped.

If placed correctly, the masts should sit too far back to fit in the 6 foot of 2 adjacent tracks, even with Peco's standard streamline spacing, which is wider than what I now use.

Since you are considering a re-build, It may be worth basing your track spacing dimensions on where & how the masts will fit?

 

There are sections of 4 track line which use cantilever masts, effectively set up as a pair of double track lines. The MML in London where it runs right next to the M1 is a good example. Peco's masts would be suitable for this configuration.

The southern section of the WCML is a bad example because it was done before the 6'-10'-6' rule for spacing tracks was observed, leaving no space for posts in the centre, so many of the portals are lattice type gantrys which span all 4 tracks.

 

Clive Mortimore's dimension diagrams have been mentioned. They are on this forum somewhere & are an excellent resource.

[cravensdmufan]

2 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

I am not sure standard Peco spacing would have helped.

If placed correctly, the masts should sit too far back to fit in the 6 foot of 2 adjacent tracks, even with Peco's standard streamline spacing, which is wider than what I now use.

Since you are considering a re-build, It may be worth basing your track spacing dimensions on where & how the masts will fit?

 

There are sections of 4 track line which use cantilever masts, effectively set up as a pair of double track lines. The MML in London where it runs right next to the M1 is a good example. Peco's masts would be suitable for this configuration.

The southern section of the WCML is a bad example because it was done before the 6'-10'-6' rule for spacing tracks was observed, leaving no space for posts in the centre, so many of the portals are lattice type gantrys which span all 4 tracks.

 

Clive Mortimore's dimension diagrams have been mentioned. They are on this forum somewhere & are an excellent resource.

Thanks Pete, that's all good information and advice.  I will indeed plan the new layout trackwork with mast spacings in mind.

[ThaneofFife]

the class 81 would then satisfy most wcml modellers needs next.  fingers crossed then weve got 81 85 86 87 and 90.  a great range. 

[jonathan452]

7 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

I am not sure standard Peco spacing would have helped.

If placed correctly, the masts should sit too far back to fit in the 6 foot of 2 adjacent tracks, even with Peco's standard streamline spacing, which is wider than what I now use.

Since you are considering a re-build, It may be worth basing your track spacing dimensions on where & how the masts will fit?

 

There are sections of 4 track line which use cantilever masts, effectively set up as a pair of double track lines. The MML in London where it runs right next to the M1 is a good example. Peco's masts would be suitable for this configuration.

The southern section of the WCML is a bad example because it was done before the 6'-10'-6' rule for spacing tracks was observed, leaving no space for posts in the centre, so many of the portals are lattice type gantrys which span all 4 tracks.

 

Clive Mortimore's dimension diagrams have been mentioned. They are on this forum somewhere & are an excellent resource.

East Coast Main Line South of Welwyn Garden City

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.793699,-0.207449,3a,15y,196.58h,87.17t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sOshTw3OL2V1pR0X5wPB_oQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DOshTw3OL2V1pR0X5wPB_oQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D75.85781%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100

[cravensdmufan]

6 minutes ago, jonathan452 said:

East Coast Main Line South of Welwyn Garden City

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@51.793699,-0.207449,3a,15y,196.58h,87.17t/data=!3m5!1e1!3m3!1sOshTw3OL2V1pR0X5wPB_oQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DOshTw3OL2V1pR0X5wPB_oQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D75.85781%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100

That is a very interesting and useful screenshot - on the basis of that set up maybe I could apply similar to my layout. But it doesn't "look" quite as nice as the more traditional mast positioning!

[Pete the Elaner]

17 minutes ago, cravensdmufan said:

That is a very interesting and useful screenshot - on the basis of that set up maybe I could apply similar to my layout. But it doesn't "look" quite as nice as the more traditional mast positioning!

When researching my layout, I was very surprised at how many supports there are & also with their placings.

The area I am modelling is 150m long on the WCML, which scales down to 6'6" in 4mm.

On the fast line are 4 pairs of cantilevers (2 of which are right next to each other) & 5 lattice gantries.

On the slow lines, there are 4 pairs of cantilevers, 2 fairly close to each other, but not as close as on the fast lines. 1 of the other pairs of these is staggered. There are also 3 lattice gantries & 1 girder gantry.

So for 6'6", the wires have 9 supports on the fast lines & 8 supports on the slow lines. This seems like quite drastic overkill but I suppose it is because there is a tunnel at one end a bridge at the other & another bridge partway along the layout.

 

There really are some quite surprising features on the real railway if you look hard enough!

 

 

[cravensdmufan]

2 hours ago, ThaneofFife said:

the class 81 would then satisfy most wcml modellers needs next.  fingers crossed then weve got 81 85 86 87 and 90.  a great range. 

Agree.  I just hope the Heljan 86 will be as good as Hornby 87 and if so that they will then do 86/2 and 86/4.  Bachmann's 85 set the standard, and I'm sure their 90 will equal or exceed it.

 

I was hoping Hornby would do the 86 actually - I thought it would follow their excellent 87.

[ThaneofFife]

weve seen some duplication of models lately so I wouldn't rule out Hornby doing an 86 still...….. if they think there is cash to be made.

[gazwire]

Hi guys. I just thought I’d send you a picture of my, just acquired, re-sprayed Hornby class 87 from Lee’s Locos. Got to say I’m over the moon with it. Some may question the shade of blue, but I requested this as a preference- I really liked the colours on the old Lima ‘Cock of the North’. 

[blueeighties]

Thanks Gareth, glad you like 

[ThaneofFife]

I am hoping we will see that (87 006 Large Logo) released as an LE model at some point.  Sure 500 would walk out of the shops......

[Pete the Elaner]

4 hours ago, gazwire said:

Hi guys. I just thought I’d send you a picture of my, just acquired, re-sprayed Hornby class 87 from Lee’s Locos. Got to say I’m over the moon with it. Some may question the shade of blue, but I requested this as a preference- I really liked the colours on the old Lima ‘Cock of the North’. 

That  looks rather nice.

Rail blue looked very different depending on the ambient light. Who is to say what is wrong or right? Looks good to me.

[lyneux]

Nice respray but all the photos that I can find of 87006 in that livery show it with a Brecknell Willis pan.

Edited March 8, 2019 by lyneux

[ThaneofFife]

the pan is an easy fix but yes it was one of two along with 87012 that was cleared for the new 110mph services

2 each way every day eus-glas returns.

[Patriot87003]

I couldn’t resist .... and recently purchased a another Intercity Swallow Class 87, but have backdated the livery a few years - I’m not the best artist in the world but I’m pleased with how it’s turned out so far.

 

 

 

This backdates Black Douglas to her 1993 condition as shown in several pictures I found online including:

 

Flickr 87030 Black Douglas, Manchester Pic 1993

 

I used Railmatch warning panel yellow, executive dark grey and executive light grey, finished off with Railtec transfers. I’ve not varnished or weathered her yet. I’m a bit tempted to buy and repaint another, with the executive dark grey wrapped round the front being a favourite, although if I do, I bet Hornby will announce for 2020! 

 

[GordonC]

On 08/03/2019 at 17:56, Pete the Elaner said:

That  looks rather nice.

Rail blue looked very different depending on the ambient light. Who is to say what is wrong or right? Looks good to me.

 

It wasn't blue in that livery though was it? Was it not described as 'Battleship Grey' but looked very close to executive dark grey if it wasn't exactly the same

[gazwire]

Looks fantastic Patriot. How have you done it? ( the yellow is perfect- ( not Del and Rodney’s yellow paint for the Chinese!)) it looks fantastic. I was hoping Hornby might bring out that livery. 

 

(On a side note, my lucky number is 87 because of the locos. It’s apparently unlucky in cricket though- 13 away from the century). The 87s have always blasted the train ride from my hometown in Warrington to Euston. I felt that you could always feel the pull and power compared to the 47s/85s/86s. On full pelt, it clattered through the points at Bletchley and it was a great feeling of speed. It made mincemeat of the cars on the m1 adjacent to the railway line through Northants at 100+.

 

 I respected and loved the mark three coaches, but when the 87 lead a rake of mark 1s or mark 2s at full pelt- you knew you were going fast as you could feel it more. The only equivalent 87 buzz I had was travelling for the first time on a 125 in the 80s. Amazing trains. But I’m loyal to the 87. The conveyer of my hopes and dreams- and my lucky number.

Edited March 10, 2019 by gazwire

[Crewlisle]

On 01/03/2019 at 18:25, cravensdmufan said:

Agree.  I just hope the Heljan 86 will be as good as Hornby 87 and if so that they will then do 86/2 and 86/4.  Bachmann's 85 set the standard, and I'm sure their 90 will equal or exceed it.

 

I was hoping Hornby would do the 86 actually - I thought it would follow their excellent 87.

 

Nice model.  I would have bought a Swallow liveried one; shame that they did not do it with a sprung metal Brecknell-Willis pantograph to run in contact with the catenary.

 

Peter

[Patriot87003]

5 hours ago, gazwire said:

Looks fantastic Patriot. How have you done it?

 

Thanks Gazwire! It’s on the to-do list to purchase and try a proper airbrush and learn a new skill, I haven’t been brave enough yet, also concentrated in recent years progressing my layout. I really wanted an IC Exec 87 with the new chassis, so I took the following steps:

 

• Step 1: Decent quality masking tape to mask the yellow areas. I used a Railmatch aerosol 1202 and gave two coats. Both came out quite thick/blobby, possibly because the can is at least two years old, or the temperature was quite cool.
• Step 2: I wasn’t happy with the result, so I purchased Deluxe materials strip magic and carefully removed the layers of the yellow areas and took back to the bare plastic. I then used IPA alcohol to neutralise the strip magic.
• Step 3: I brush coated two thin coats of matt white paint of the yellow cab areas to neutralise the dark plastic.
• Step 4: I brush coated five thin coats of Railmatch 202 warning panel yellow enamel.
• Step 5: Removed masking tape with fingers crossed! Was pleasantly surprised, with only a small amount of touching up required of the yellow cab areas.
• Step 6: Mask and paint the Railmatch 201 executive dark grey areas.
• Step 7: Mask and paint the Railmatch 200 executive light grey areas.
• Step 8: Paint chassis and bogies matt black (mainly to cover the white pipes), with buffer beam given three thin coats of red.
• Step 9: Apply transfers.

The biggest tip I’ve learnt over time is if brush painting, purchase a decent set of brushes with a range of widths, really can achieve a decent quality finish especially if thin coats are built up. I know it’s not as good as finish as from airbrushing, but I’m pleased with how it’s turned out.

 

ps. I agree and remember those 87 hauled trips along the WCML, also the sounds of the rheostatic breaking and heat released and smells of the brake pads when full service braking was whacked on!