Hornby Class 87 - Confirmed Newly Tooled Version for 2017 !

[Pete the Elaner]

13 hours ago, ThaneofFife said:

id be interested to hear what decoder fits easily from Hornby...……..and yes if its such a big issue they should make the space a bit more generous..   sorting out the lights too wouldn't go amiss.

Lights....hmmm.

 

1 direction only lights was one of the last releases before switchable rear lights were included on a RTR model (was Bachmann's 90 the first? That was a year later).

In this respect, the 87 was a ok but not a market leader. It was clearly something which was going to happen, I doubt it would have cost much, if anything more to produce & I am sure the market will demand it in the future on other models.

[No Decorum]

The market may demand it but whether it will get it is another matter. Hornby’s 87 followed Hornby’s 71, which was another model difficult to convert to DCC and even more difficult to convert to sound. It would be nice if Hornby were to modify the toolings of what are otherwise good models which run well.

[Locksley]

These completely passed me by until I saw 87010 for 50% off in the Hobby King sale a few weeks back. Couldn't resist. Stonkingly nice model, and an easy peasy respray into Executive with some Railtec decs too.

 

Edited November 18, 2019 by Locksley

[wombatofludham]

5 hours ago, Locksley said:

These completely passed me by until I saw 87010 for 50% off in the Hobby King sale a few weeks back. Couldn't resist. Stonkingly nice model, and an easy peasy respray into Executive with some Railtec decs too.

 

...and which has now made it safely to Fairbourne.

It is a cracking repaint, very happy and just fills a nice gap in my 1986 fleet, saving me the job.  I actually didn't realise the real 87007 had the odd sized numbers when running in Exec livery until I did a Flickr search!

[jonathan452]

I noticed the Virgin 87 on display in Hamleys on Saturday also had the pantograph half hanging off.

 

It would seem that it is rather difficult to remove the polystyrene (transit) packing piece without dislodging or damaging the pivot fixing.

 

 

[cravensdmufan]

6 hours ago, Locksley said:

These completely passed me by until I saw 87010 for 50% off in the Hobby King sale a few weeks back. Couldn't resist. Stonkingly nice model, and an easy peasy respray into Executive with some Railtec decs too.

 

 

I just hit the "like" button - but that didn't seem enough!  That loco looks stunning!  Absolutely brilliant.

[VXDH92]

11 hours ago, Locksley said:

These completely passed me by until I saw 87010 for 50% off in the Hobby King sale a few weeks back. Couldn't resist. Stonkingly nice model, and an easy peasy respray into Executive with some Railtec decs too.

 

Gutted I missed out on half price 87s!

[Locksley]

16 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

...and which has now made it safely to Fairbourne.

It is a cracking repaint, very happy and just fills a nice gap in my 1986 fleet, saving me the job.  I actually didn't realise the real 87007 had the odd sized numbers when running in Exec livery until I did a Flickr search!

 

Ah excellent! Glad to hear it landed safely, and delighted you're happy with it! I thought it looked quite quirky with the odd numbers, they seem to have only been like that in its Executive days and were the standard style in both BR blue and Swallow. Makes it a bit different

 

I was in 2 minds about selling it as i was so happy with how it came out, but even I couldn't justify a visiting AC electric to a small Sheffield goods yard lol.

Edited November 19, 2019 by Locksley

[cravensdmufan]

17 hours ago, wombatofludham said:

...and which has now made it safely to Fairbourne.

It is a cracking repaint, very happy and just fills a nice gap in my 1986 fleet, saving me the job.  I actually didn't realise the real 87007 had the odd sized numbers when running in Exec livery until I did a Flickr search!

Could you post a few photos please? Would love to see more of this loco.

 

Thanks!

[Locksley]

1 hour ago, cravensdmufan said:

Could you post a few photos please? Would love to see more of this loco.

 

Thanks!

 

I'm sure Mark will post a some of his own but I have a few more in the mean time

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pete the Elaner]

Close-ups usually reveal more flaws than you can see with the naked eye but not in this case. It looks really tidy.

[cravensdmufan]

2 hours ago, Locksley said:

 

I'm sure Mark will post a some of his own but I have a few more in the mean time

 

Absolutely stunning - thanks for posting.

 

Couple of quick questions, please:

 

1. What did you use to replicate the jumper cable sockets - they look really good.  They were quite prominent on the real locos.  I felt that Hornby's ones on blue 87 035 Robert Burns looked a bit under nourished.

 

2. Did you repaint the lower body colour into executive light grey or did you achieve the colour by heavy weathering over the white?  And what make dark grey paint did you use for extending the colour around the front ends?  It matches perfectly.

 

Your photos have inspired me to do something with my two 87s which are still sitting pristine in their boxes!

 

Thanks!

[Locksley]

3 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Close-ups usually reveal more flaws than you can see with the naked eye but not in this case. It looks really tidy.

 

Cheers!

 

28 minutes ago, cravensdmufan said:

Absolutely stunning - thanks for posting.

 

Couple of quick questions, please:

 

1. What did you use to replicate the jumper cable sockets - they look really good.  They were quite prominent on the real locos.  I felt that Hornby's ones on blue 87 035 Robert Burns looked a bit under nourished.

 

2. Did you repaint the lower body colour into executive light grey or did you achieve the colour by heavy weathering over the white?  And what make dark grey paint did you use for extending the colour around the front ends?  It matches perfectly.

 

Your photos have inspired me to do something with my two 87s which are still sitting pristine in their boxes!

 

Thanks!

 

1. 87010 in IC Swallow doesn't have them so I decided to model some basic ones up in Tinkercad and 3d print them - one of the benefits of owning an Anycubic Photon. I wasn't sure it would cope with them but even the cable itself turned out well. Let me know if you'd like a set and I'll stick you some in the post.

 

2. Honestly the centre body section is still the Hornby applied Swallow paintwork, just cunningly disguised weathered I figured it wasn't worth the extra work/potential for disaster to respray it when you'd struggle to tell after weathering. The grey on each nose is Mr Color black with a tiny drop of offwhite to take the edge off it, sprayed over a light grey primer.

[Pete the Elaner]

Small point (am I being picky?)

The TDM stowage sockets were moved & inverted in the 90s, which allowed shorter cables. I don't have any of my own photos but the cables were secured to the same place under the windows & the dropped down via a clip (which was sometimes not used), then held in the stowage socket from below.

I have a photo of an 86 taken with my old camera so the image is not great, but you can see the cables. The class 87 used the same configuration.

 

 

[cravensdmufan]

1 hour ago, Locksley said:

 

Cheers!

 

 

1. 87010 in IC Swallow doesn't have them so I decided to model some basic ones up in Tinkercad and 3d print them - one of the benefits of owning an Anycubic Photon. I wasn't sure it would cope with them but even the cable itself turned out well. Let me know if you'd like a set and I'll stick you some in the post.

 

2. Honestly the centre body section is still the Hornby applied Swallow paintwork, just cunningly disguised weathered I figured it wasn't worth the extra work/potential for disaster to respray it when you'd struggle to tell after weathering. The grey on each nose is Mr Color black with a tiny drop of offwhite to take the edge off it, sprayed over a light grey primer.

Thanks for the very useful information.  Also the kind offer of the sockets.  I will PM you,

[Johnfromoz]

For the benefit of those still inquiring about decoder fitting to the 87, I can advise that I have just fitted a branchline 3 function 8 pin with harness. Initially, I tried to lay the decoder flat on the surface of circuit board, but noted that the body would not quite sit true to its base on the chassis.  Ultimately, I had to blue tack the decoder to the underside of the PCB at the pantograph end. As others have noted, the space for speaker at the other end of the circuit board is a joke.  Interestingly, there is a 3 second lag between lighting commands and illumination/change of ends. Unsure if this is down to he decoder or circuit board, either way, doesnt bother me. Loco runs superbly.

[ThaneofFife]

real shame Hornby seemed to got the model bang on here but dropped the ball on something as basic as packaging and space for decoders and speakers.  the models heavy enough so to lose a few grams of metal wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

if I was looking to start a small milling business from home this would be a perfect starting point if folk were happy to pay. 

[MGR Hooper!]

35 minutes ago, ThaneofFife said:

real shame Hornby seemed to got the model bang on here but dropped the ball on something as basic as packaging and space for decoders and speakers.  the models heavy enough so to lose a few grams of metal wouldn't be the end of the world.

 

if I was looking to start a small milling business from home this would be a perfect starting point if folk were happy to pay. 

 

What's wrong with a packaging?

[ThaneofFife]

• packaging/spacing of the internals,

[ThaneofFife]

Read a review today in Model Rail magazine about virgin liveried 87 019 and according to them they imply its so easy to install a decoder with space for a speaker...…..I would have preferred it if they had actually tried to do it themselves and then report on their findings.

 

the history was a bit broadbrush too stating that these locos were used on 110mph services to slash journey times after electrification went beyond Preston and there was no longer a change of traction. Of course they started life as 100mph machines with the faster services coming a decade after the wires reached Scotland.

[No Decorum]

15 hours ago, ThaneofFife said:

Read a review today in Model Rail magazine about virgin liveried 87 019 and according to them they imply its so easy to install a decoder with space for a speaker...…..I would have preferred it if they had actually tried to do it themselves and then report on their findings.

 

the history was a bit broadbrush too stating that these locos were used on 110mph services to slash journey times after electrification went beyond Preston and there was no longer a change of traction. Of course they started life as 100mph machines with the faster services coming a decade after the wires reached Scotland.

Interesting post. I have long trusted Model Rail reviews above all others but this one is poor. There is no mention of the inability to turn off the tail lights independently, either by switch or decoder or of the curious working of the cab lights. The shortcomings of the provision for a decoder and speaker are by now notorious and yet, as ToF has pointed out, there is no mention of them.

 

Another, more forgivable, example is the Hornby bathtub Pacifics. Model Rail rightly picked up the less than perfect meeting of the stripes on the nose. The criticism was softened by stating how difficult they are to get right but no mention that they were done properly on the previous model.

 

Specifically on the 87, it isn’t much cheaper than Bachmann’s 90 but what a contrast in features! In all fairness, people who have no interest in DCC and can overlook the pantograph will have a superb model but DCC and sound fans will be very disappointed.

[ThaneofFife]

i wonder if Hornby are aware and feel enough of a need to take another look at this models internals. I guess in monetary terms it could cost them quite a bit of money to do a revision...….. Fidelity wise it just needs a few tucks here and there and it would be the perfect 87 but the lighting functionality is tricky to sort as a DIYer.

 

Wonder if its held back by only being a 8 rather than 21 pin dcc.

[VXDH92]

I bought that mag for the 87 review and have similar feelings to you all. It gets a brilliant 91% total, and scores highly across the board, but I would argue (dispite the fact that 87s are my favourite loco) that it is neither good value for money or good for features. It is miles behind the Bachmann 90 on these fronts and I think by the time we have the Accurascale 92 and Cavalex 91, the Hornby 87 will seem very dated indeed. Even the revised Heljan 86 will be ahead on features with 21 pin DCC and a sprung pan. If you think about it, the Hornby 87 is no better for features than when the Heljan 86 was first released many years ago, albeit it is more accurate. That said, I have still bought a couple that I got for good prices. 

[James Makin]

2 hours ago, daveahudson said:

I bought that mag for the 87 review and have similar feelings to you all. It gets a brilliant 91% total, and scores highly across the board, but I would argue (dispite the fact that 87s are my favourite loco) that it is neither good value for money or good for features. It is miles behind the Bachmann 90 on these fronts and I think by the time we have the Accurascale 92 and Cavalex 91, the Hornby 87 will seem very dated indeed. Even the revised Heljan 86 will be ahead on features with 21 pin DCC and a sprung pan. If you think about it, the Hornby 87 is no better for features than when the Heljan 86 was first released many years ago, albeit it is more accurate. That said, I have still bought a couple that I got for good prices. 

 

Agree entirely, I must say (and my response is somewhere back within these 71 pages!) that I was staggered by the weakness of the pantograph not being able to be properly used beneath cosmetic OHLE, a somewhat ‘Party piece’ of an electric loco is the ability to actually use it under (cosmetic) wires!

 

My feedback to Hornby would be to congratulate them overall on producing the loco but urge them to consider a revised, accurately sprung, metal pantograph for future batches, it doesn’t have to be remote operated like the Bachmann 90, but merely able to be raised and push up to touch overhead wires and survive some test track circuits using proprietary OHLE systems from Sommerfeldt and Peco - it worked well before on their old locos and should be the bare minimum for a current-generation AC electric 

 

Cheers,

James

[Daddyman]

Apologies for asking two questions which I'm sure have been answered before, but the thread is now 71 pages and I've only just got hold of one of these 87s. 

 

First question is how does one get the bogies apart? I want to be able to weather them and would prefer not to do it with them in situ on the loco. Can the bogie side frames and wheels be removed? There is a screw on the underside of the bogie, but it doesn't seem to release anything. 

 

Second question is, I believe there have been doubts expressed about Hornby's choice of roof colour on Robert Burns. What could should the roof be on a late 1970s loco? The photo below seems to show the roof equipment at least in dark grey - is this correct and did it extend over the whole area of the roof including the vertical rear of the cab? I've been able to find no photos taken from above on google.