Hornby Class 87 - Confirmed Newly Tooled Version for 2017 !

[Guest Half-full]

On 16/03/2020 at 04:14, MGR Hooper! said:

 

Funny you should say Dapol got it right, Caledonian Teal is not an easy colour to replicate. And I definitely don't think Dapol got it right, under most lighting conditions, it either matches the Hornby Class 87 I shared from the Olivias Trains website and under direct sunlight the colour that Dapol chose looks really greenish, far too greenish, like their representation of BR Blue on their Class 56s.

 

I don't think anyone will be getting the colour right any time soon, each and every company will get it as close as they think they can. RevolutioN Trains IMO has got the shade the closest.

 

Below I've attached images from the Rails of Sheffield website. Under their studio lighting setup the Dapol attempt at Caledonian Teal looks far too greenish to me. And obviously the Hornby attempt looks far too blue.

 

 

I seen a CS 92 yesterday for the first time, in quite bright daylight, and I'd say, to me, the Dapol rendition is very close - based on that photograph.  Hornby is off my a country mile

[LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004]

Will Hornby be releasing spares for their pantographs? Mine has pretty much broken now (it won’t keep in position anymore and it’s barely been used!) I do need a replacement for it so perhaps contacting Hornby may help? 
 

I really do wish they made it out of metal. 

[Pete the Elaner]

12 hours ago, Half-full said:

I seen a CS 92 yesterday for the first time, in quite bright daylight, and I'd say, to me, the Dapol rendition is very close - based on that photograph.  Hornby is off my a country mile

I agree that it is a lot closer.

I think the perception of that colour is very light-sensitive. I saw 86101, 86401, 87002 & several of the 92s in that livery quite a lot at Euston on my way into work. How they looked varied quite a lot depending on the sunlight, sometimes even looking just off-black.

 

1 hour ago, LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004 said:

Will Hornby be releasing spares for their pantographs? Mine has pretty much broken now (it won’t keep in position anymore and it’s barely been used!) I do need a replacement for it so perhaps contacting Hornby may help? 
 

I really do wish they made it out of metal. 

 

Metal would have been nice. I am sure they had good reasons for not using it. I wonder what they were?

 

Their original BW pantograph was metal but hugely over-scale in order to make it robust. They have made 2 others:

A flimsy plastic one which I believe was originally available on the class 92.

A plastic moulding of one permanently down, available on class 91s in a set.

 

Hurst models made a brass one, cast using a lost was technique. I have several unbuilt ones & won't be letting them go. They are a bit rough & need work before assembly, which I want to try one day.

I have heard these were used on an exhibition layout (High Gill for those who remember it), but it was fragile & they suffered a few breakages.

[Gordon H]

3 hours ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Hurst models made a brass one, cast using a lost was technique. I have several unbuilt ones & won't be letting them go. They are a bit rough & need work before assembly, which I want to try one day.

I have heard these were used on an exhibition layout (High Gill for those who remember it), but it was fragile & they suffered a few breakages.

 

You must have misheard slightly.

The working Brecknell-Willis pans used on High Gill were scratchbuilt in brass (mostly by me).

I demonstrated their construction at the first ModelRail exhibition in the early 90's at St Alban's (still got the sweatshirt!), and during the show I lent one to Hurst who were at that time considering the production of a kit.

Some time later their kit appeared using brass castings.

I did buy one to try out, but found it far easier to continue scratchbuilding instead.

 

[MGR Hooper!]

21 hours ago, LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004 said:

 

Will Hornby be releasing spares for their pantographs? Mine has pretty much broken now (it won’t keep in position anymore and it’s barely been used!) I do need a replacement for it so perhaps contacting Hornby may help? 
 

Yes they will be releasing them as spares. Currently out of stock and due sometime next month.

[LMS_LNER_SR_GWR_fan2004]

6 hours ago, MGR Hooper! said:

Yes they will be releasing them as spares. Currently out of stock and due sometime next month.

Thank you so much for the info! Much appreciated!

 

[surfsup]

On 18/03/2020 at 20:10, Half-full said:

I seen a CS 92 yesterday for the first time, in quite bright daylight, and I'd say, to me, the Dapol rendition is very close - based on that photograph.  Hornby is off my a country mile

 

The thing is, the Dapol rendition is a lot closer because they worked with certain members of Caley Sleeper staff to get it as close to the original livery as possible. There's no denying that the Hornby effort is still too blue, and sadly still incorrect. What I find rather frustrating is, just when we were seeing previews with "The Engine Shed" blog, we seem to have gone back to sneaking models through before us members of the public can have our say in them - Something like this could have been picked up a lot earlier before they hit production. 

 

An as aide, here's a few Caley Sleeper picture's I've taken over the past few years. I'll leave everyone to make their minds up. 

 

 

Edited March 20, 2020 by surfsup

[amarr40]

Loving the photos of the real thing! Shame about Hornby example it’s just awful. 

[truffy]

1 hour ago, surfsup said:

we seem to have gone back to sneaking models through before us members of the public can have our say in them 

 

 

Au contraire, anyone can still have their say by not buying it. Not ideal, perhaps, but it’s still an option. 

[Pete the Elaner]

29 minutes ago, truffy said:

Au contraire, anyone can still have their say by not buying it. Not ideal, perhaps, but it’s still an option. 

True but everybody loses.

Models don't sell - bad for Hornby.

Because they don't sell, they take the view that 'class 87s don't sell', which pushes back further production.

 

Compare that to a good model, like the recent Duchess.

Excellent model which is well received.

They sell out quickly, prompting more to be made.

 

I'm not arguing that a class 87 will be as popular as a Duchess, but making a good Duchess & blatant errors on the 87 distort sales of both when compared to each other.

[G-BOAF]

53 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

I'm not arguing that a class 87 will be as popular as a Duchess, but making a good Duchess & blatant errors on the 87 distort sales of both when compared to each other.

 

What are the baltant errors on the 87?

While not quite a match with the Class 90, I thought the general concensus on the 87 was it was a good model?

[3rd Rail Exile]

32 minutes ago, G-BOAF said:

 

What are the baltant errors on the 87?

While not quite a match with the Class 90, I thought the general concensus on the 87 was it was a good model?

I think the "blatant error" comment is specific to the colour of the Caley Sleeper model...

[ThaneofFife]

agreed.  be good to see the next versions in painted sample mode before going to production

[amarr40]

If Hornby correct the livery issue on 87002 maybe I’d buy one!

[Pete the Elaner]

5 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

 

What are the baltant errors on the 87?

While not quite a match with the Class 90, I thought the general concensus on the 87 was it was a good model?

Bad colours. Caledonian blue is admittedly a difficult colour to match, but Hornby's effort is not at all close.

The colour may well put people off from buying it & any manufacturer (Hornby included) are likely to judge sales of a particular class of loco on the last one they released.

 

[ThaneofFife]

were they expected to announce any new 87s at Ally Pally I wonder???  theyre up to date now i think with the 87002 and 87001/101 in the shops. 

[G-BOAF]

1 hour ago, ThaneofFife said:

were they expected to announce any new 87s at Ally Pally I wonder???  theyre up to date now i think with the 87002 and 87001/101 in the shops. 

Its 87001/87001!!!

The model is not the 87/1, but the 87/0 that was renamed after the 87/1 was scrapped! And the model is as per the dual named loco today

 

On 20/03/2020 at 16:13, 3rd Rail Exile said:

I think the "blatant error" comment is specific to the colour of the Caley Sleeper model...

Ah OK, thanks for clarification.

[Crewlisle]

On 20/03/2020 at 15:39, G-BOAF said:

 

What are the baltant errors on the 87?

While not quite a match with the Class 90, I thought the general concensus on the 87 was it was a good model?

 

What are the blatant errors on the 87?  Obvious, a rubbish plastic pantograph that would put a Thomas the Tank Engine to shame!  What continental model manufacturer would dare to present a scale electric overhead model loco without a functioning metal sprung pantograph?

 

Surely someone at Hornby should have had  the common sense to have sub contracted Sommerfeldt to produce a metal pantograph - even if it added £5 to the cost of each loco?

 

Peter

 

 

[VXDH92]

Has anyone had issues with lights not working on their 87s? Bought an intercity one from Colletts a while back. Went to try it yesterday, and the loco works fine, but none of the lights work (including cab lights) on either DC or DCC. I've taken the body off and compared it to another one I have, and there aren't any visible differences in wiring etc. I can't send back to Hornby at the mo due to the virus, so if anyone has any tips, I'd be very grateful!

[G-BOAF]

From pictures on this thread a while back, the lighting appears to be linked by spring contacts on the body touching pads on the PCB. Maybe check these are conntacting/springing enough?

 

Anyone else got any other advice,tips?

Can you wire the body shell contacts directly up to a controller to test the circuits themselves?

[Pete the Elaner]

On 26/03/2020 at 03:12, Crewlisle said:

 

What are the blatant errors on the 87?  Obvious, a rubbish plastic pantograph that would put a Thomas the Tank Engine to shame!  What continental model manufacturer would dare to present a scale electric overhead model loco without a functioning metal sprung pantograph?

 

Surely someone at Hornby should have had  the common sense to have sub contracted Sommerfeldt to produce a metal pantograph - even if it added £5 to the cost of each loco?

 

Peter

 

 

The 'blatant errors' sounds like my remark from earlier. I meant Caledonian blue, which looks a lot closer to black in real life.

I usually try to refrain from comment regarding colour because it can vary a lot in different lighting conditions, but Hornby's rendition of CB is not even close.

 

Another blatant error is the DCC & sound provisioning. The decoder stowage slot is too small for Hornby's own decoder (at least it was on their earlier releases & despite my asking several times if this has changed, nobody has answered, so I assume they've not changed this). Hornby didn't even realise their own decoder wouldn't fit until Charlie Petty pointed it out to them. I found that amusing when Charlie mentioned it.

The "speaker location" is under a circuit board, just a circle marked on a surface, but no good if your speaker is any thicker than a piece of paper!

 

 

Hornby have made a functioning metal BW pan in the past, but overscale & robust, so they tried to improve this with the new 87. Their choice was the fragile plastic rendition.

This is Hornby's 4th attempt at this pantograph so I am sure they want to make one which looks great & is robust, but feel they have to compromise somewhere.

 

I don't like it, but I don't think "error" is the correct term for it. The designers felt they couldn't make a decent looking robust one so chose this compromise accepting it would get criticised. It is certainly better than Bachmann's one when photographed & I suspect the designers intended it to fall apart at the joints so it could be re-assembled rather than allow the individual components to get damaged.

Edited April 2, 2020 by Pete the Elaner
Forgot to mention the pan

[Pete the Elaner]

1 hour ago, G-BOAF said:

From pictures on this thread a while back, the lighting appears to be linked by spring contacts on the body touching pads on the PCB. Maybe check these are conntacting/springing enough?

 

Anyone else got any other advice,tips?

Can you wire the body shell contacts directly up to a controller to test the circuits themselves?

The earlier ones were certainly fed from spring contacts on the roof. This seems to work much better than earlier fiddly connections like the early 31s used so I expect Hornby would have stuck with the roof mounted springs.

The individual white lights are fed from a centre light at each end by 2 pieces of clear plastic which reflect the light twice. I managed to lose one of these tiny pieces of plastic & somehow found it again several weeks later. Be very careful with these. I can't describe how lucky I felt that I managed to find mine.

 

LEDs should be protected with a resistor which may well be on the main circuit board so you may damage them by applying a voltage directly. If it is possible to measure the voltage at the terminals instead then I would recommend trying it before looking at the LED itself.

[G-BOAF]

Finally oppened my new 87, 87001, purchased in Feb. It really IS a fantastic model.

Looks spot on with real character.

 

Particular highlights are:

The face of the loco - looks good (and reminds me of standing in the front coach looking out the end windows at the facing cab!)

Roof detail - all of it is great, but in particular the fine pipework to the fire bottles.

the fine mesh over the under-body tangle of pipework (can someone tell me what this piping is)

the white pipework on the bogies

The AWS reciever on the bogie - I presume the loco only had one fitted? Never seen such detail captured RTR before.

Cab detail - could do with picking out in paint.

 

Really one of Hornby's best modern image models and I'm very impressed.

The supplied seperate plates look good, but sadly they have not also supplied the crests under/above each nameplate. It will look strange to have relief on the nameplates but not the other plates. Do anyone do a set of proper etchings?

 

I'm really a fan of heritage livery locos, in particular because you get a classic livery but with all of the detail of locomotives later in life. I am amazed at how this model was the same price as, say Robert Burns, when the later era models have much more detail including NRN arials, fire bottles and pipework etc. A few extra painted parts added but at no extra cost!

 

Not had a chance to run her yet... more comments to follow, and (hopefully) a nice display idea using a Bachmann Mk2...

Edited April 2, 2020 by G-BOAF

[ThaneofFife]

agreed its great but just short of being 100% perfect.   the decoder and speaker situation though is laughable.

[G-BOAF]

Smooth as silk and looks fantastic.

BUT some rub marks on the tumblehome under the cab caused by the HARD PLASTIC packaging (which is so much worse than the expanded polystyrene packaging if there is any contact with paintwork). Its perfect in every other way and rub is only the satin varnish. Bit annoyed but not sending her back