Hornby Princess Coronation Class (Duchess)

[robmcg]

2 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

Excellent models.

 

I had forgotten your location Rob!!

 

May the best win, etc.

 

Have you photoshopped those cylinder draincocks on the A4 else if 'actual', where did you get them from?

 

Al.

 

Photo-edited on I'm afraid, but I have a feeling someone sells these longer pre-war versions with the inward kink at the front.  I'll try to remember who makes then,  possibly some Hornby LNER models like Mallard and Osprey have longish ones in the accessory pack?

[atom3624]

That's what got me, that inward kink - just looks 'right'.

 

Al.

[robmcg]

Does anyone know when 46225 lost its sloping smokebox front? 

 

Hornby's lovely blue model has the correct sloping smokebox, and it carried blue livery from 3/1950 until 1/1955 according to Irwell, during which time it had 10 works visits including a heavy general in 1953 .

 

So I photo edited a full smokebox on...  just in case..      will remove if required.

 

 

from this

 

 

Of course proper Duchesses were the non-streamlined-from-new ones, such as 46252...

 

 

Or, if you insist on red...  you can't go past 46245 'City of London', grateful acknowledgements to Andy Y who used this background for his superb photos of the GWR King.

 

 

 

Even though the pic is edited I am quite pleased that the driving wheels of this older-tooling version still look good, to my eyes at least.

 

However, lacking anything better to do..

 

with late-tooling driving wheels, Gibson wheels on front

 

 

for those who missed it first time around, here is Andy Y's superb shot of that, um, 'object' from Swindon...  thankyou Andy will remove my copied-background edited pics if required.

 

 

 

cheers

Edited July 14, 2019 by robmcg

[Colin_McLeod]

Rob great photographs.

 

By the way, you often say that you will remove your photographs "if required". As far as I know there is no requirement for you to remove any of your excellent photographs, photoshopped or not. Perhaps Admin can confirm.

 

Please keep the photographs coming. They are great to see.

[robmcg]

Thanks Colin,  Andy Y got a very large number of complaints a couple of years ago when I was regularly putting edited photos in other people's threads, as I understand it many complainants felt that it was 'not modelling', or worse.

 

So I agreed to put my pictures only in 'my' threads, or with the removal offer in other people's threads.  Fair enough, really, there is a school of thought which says modified pictures are dishonest, even when clearly marked.  I could on on about cropping and 'normal' photo settings to do with camera settings, brightness, contrast, colour settings, which can be done with modern cameras on 'auto' or 'manual'.

 

I personally find it all ok. Some don't like such as blanking out backgrounds,  as it's dishonest.  I think some brilliant modellers display their beautiful work with child-like background screens,   each to their own.

 

I just bought a blue Duchess...   well, another blue Hornby Duchess.   But is it accurate? That's what I want to know!   

 

and don't mention GREEN    there are experts on the subject here!

 

[robmcg]

Actually this got me thinking   (careful, it is a new thing for me)   ...    that the quality of the latest run of Hornby Duchesses is only slightly better than the 2002-2014 versions,  and mechanically may be somewhat worse.

 

While the driving wheels, chassis detail, cab and spectacle glasses are now brilliant, I look at the older tooling and the older ones on average run slightly better, quieter, and the driving wheels sometimes look more realistic than the newer more accurate ones...  in general view that is. They have abbreviated flanges on the middle driver making the appearance of what are possibly slightly larger wheels 'work'.

 

Of course we still have rather flat front bogie wheels, and some prefer to fit Gibson wheels, and we still have the strictures of 00 gauge...  how the designers and toolmakers of 2002 did it I will never know!  

 

here is an 'old' version

 

 

and here is a 'new' version

 

with editing in both cases, just to complicate it.. 

 

 

Don't mention green!  

 

In either case Hornby Princess Coronation models are superb.   As for that matter are any number of their post 2000 models.

 

Edited July 14, 2019 by robmcg
idle addition

[atom3624]

Rob I did like tha K G V 'photo' - a little extra detailing wouldn't distinguish it from the 'real thing'.

 

Al.

 

PS 'Best team win'? I never knew there was a 'Super Over' ... !! What an ending!!

[robmcg]

That is Andy Y's marvellous photograph, all credit to him. 

 

I woke this morning at 2am...  Louis Hamilton was leading the British Grand Prix, Federer and that other guy were equal on Centre Court, and the cricket sounded interesting, so I went back to sleep in the interests of sanity.  Woke again at 6am our time and we were tied in the cricket on 241...    pulse has since recovered....

 

Is there an anti-Duchess-mania pill?

 

cheers

 

 

Edited July 15, 2019 by robmcg
typos and additions.

[atom3624]

NO!! Duchesses are fantastic locos!

 

Rob I did like tha K G V 'photo' - a little extra detailing wouldn't distinguish it from the 'real thing'.

 

Al.

 

PS 'Best team win'? I never knew there was a 'Super Over' ... !! What an ending!!

PPS LH - 32 laps on a 30-safe-limit Hard tyre, LAST LAP, and set the lap record as well ... !!  Bit of a crazy sporting Sunday.

[MikeParkin65]

21 hours ago, robmcg said:

Actually this got me thinking   (careful, it is a new thing for me)   ...    that the quality of the latest run of Hornby Duchesses is only slightly better than the 2002-2014 versions,  and mechanically may be somewhat worse.

 

While the driving wheels, chassis detail, cab and spectacle glasses are now brilliant, I look at the older tooling and the older ones on average run slightly better, quieter, and the driving wheels sometimes look more realistic than the newer more accurate ones...  in general view that is. They have abbreviated flanges on the middle driver making the appearance of what are possibly slightly larger wheels 'work'.

 

Of course we still have rather flat front bogie wheels, and some prefer to fit Gibson wheels, and we still have the strictures of 00 gauge...  how the designers and toolmakers of 2002 did it I will never know!  

 

here is an 'old' version

 

 

and here is a 'new' version

 

with editing in both cases, just to complicate it.. 

 

 

Don't mention green!  

 

In either case Hornby Princess Coronation models are superb.   As for that matter are any number of their post 2000 models.

 

I agree about the old model conpared to the new models driving wheels - the bevel looks too pronounced on the new. Maybe its the semi gloss of the plastic but they dont look as refined as the Alan Gibsons. Still a fine model though. 

[robmcg]

1 hour ago, MikeParkin65 said:

I agree about the old model conpared to the new models driving wheels - the bevel looks too pronounced on the new. Maybe its the semi gloss of the plastic but they dont look as refined as the Alan Gibsons. Still a fine model though. 

 

Yes. In the photos i the Irwell book and others the driving wheel bevel on the rim-web looks slightly narrower, on pristine engines such as the 1948 exchanges.  It's still there though, and on low angle light such as I use it's definitely just like the latest Hornby models. 

 

So easy to be fixated on things! Like flange widths, gauge, and so on, that's why I'm so impressed by the general look of all the 2002-on Duchess models..  the proportion of those beautiful large driving wheels is no easy feat in a 'toy' 00 model for type 2 radius curves.

 

Mind you, I would say that wouldn't I ...   I have just bought two more....     A blue  46237 City of Bristol and a late red 46243 City of Lancaster.

[atom3624]

Rob, using Wiki to answer an earlier question, if not already answered, BR Blue changed to green in January 1955, when the smokebox was also modified, presumably fitting with full round smokebox.

 

Al.

[robmcg]

1 hour ago, atom3624 said:

Rob, using Wiki to answer an earlier question, if not already answered, BR Blue changed to green in January 1955, when the smokebox was also modified, presumably fitting with full round smokebox.

 

Al.

 

You may well be right Al , but a heavy general overhaul in 1953 may also have included a smokebox change, presumably they were changed when worn-corroded.  As ever I'd have to read obscure books to find evidence!   For now I'll accept 1955, since some, like 46243 City of Lancaster didn't get a new smokebox until 1958.  According to captions in Irwell.

 

Nothing like thorough research to keep a man out of trouble! 

[Steamport Southport]

Yep. January 1955.

 

I know some people like to criticise Wikipedia but all the information on this page tallies with the books.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LMS_Coronation_Class

 

 

 

Jason

 

[robmcg]

On 10/07/2019 at 14:28, Rshakes3 said:

Hi Rob, I`ve been following this trail for along time now & I too had the same issue with my DoH. Having read the earlier posts I was fully prepared for this to happen but while the missing hand rail was still in the box I managed to lose it on the floor somewhere – clux!

However I was able to use a 200 OHM resistor wire bent around a small set of needle nose pliers to replace it. I also used a 0.5mm drill bit to carefully open out the hole.

With a little bit of Super Glue applied to the inside the replacement is perfect.  So easy job if you take your time.

 

Hi Rshakes3,

Yes it's a couple of pages back where I showed my blue Coronation 6221 with top handrails out and loose in box and missing respectively.

 

This was my third attempt to buy a new one with the handrails 'in', the first two had both missing and lost, I returned them as unable to fix such small things myself, this time a kind and more dextrous brother had a go,   and we chose 10amp fuse wire, and success!   With fast-acting superglue...  

 

I am SO HAPPY !  One in the pic is the Hornby part, the other is the 10amp fuse-wire bent around the tip of a fine scissor blade. The fuse wire is actually more realistic than the Hornby part, more 'flat', well, slightly, if you are fussy. Drilling was required to fit both, to create a surface to glue to, but not enlarge the already poor holes in the moulding..

 

It runs well, too.  

 

 

Cheers.

Edited July 26, 2019 by robmcg
typo

[atom3624]

Nice job Rob.

 

Pity it happened in the first place!!

 

How does she run?

 

Al.

[MikeParkin65]

6 hours ago, robmcg said:

 

Hi Rshakes3,

Yes it's a couple of pages back where I showed my blue Coronation 6221 with top handrails out and loose in box and missing respectively.

 

This was my third attempt to buy a new one with the handrails 'in', the first two had both missing and lost, I returned them as unable to fix such small things myself, this time a kind and more dextrous brother had a go,   and we chose 10amp fuse wire, and success!   With fast-acting superglue...  

 

I am SO HAPPY !  One in the pic is the Hornby part, the other is the 10amp fuse-wire bent around the tip of a fine scissor blade. The fuse wire is actually more realistic than the Hornby part, more 'flat', well, slightly, if you are fussy. Drilling was required to fit both, to create a surface to glue to, but not enlarge the already poor holes in the moulding..

 

It runs well, too.  

 

 

Cheers.

Yours now more complete than the real thing! I understand they cant be fitted to 6229 at the National Railway Museum as the doors are too difficult to open and close again!!

[cctransuk]

22 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

 I understand they cant be fitted to 6229 at the National Railway Museum as the doors are too difficult to open and close again!!

 

Pity the poor LMS cleaner who had the job of cleaning out the smokebox, then !

 

...... or are present-day sheet metal workers less skilled than formerly ?

 

A sad state of affairs.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Hilux5972]

34 minutes ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Yours now more complete than the real thing! I understand they cant be fitted to 6229 at the National Railway Museum as the doors are too difficult to open and close again!!

I what way difficult? The hinges are around the corner, how on earth can it be too difficult? 

[MikeParkin65]

 

55 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Pity the poor LMS cleaner who had the job of cleaning out the smokebox, then !

 

...... or are present-day sheet metal workers less skilled than formerly ?

 

A sad state of affairs.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

45 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said:

I what way difficult? The hinges are around the corner, how on earth can it be too difficult? 

 

There was an article in a fairly recent Steam Railway about the future of the NRM and some of the loco's. It was said that 6229 is pretty much a static exhibit now and in any case there would be problems steaming 6229  and using it as an operational loco including the fact that the doors are pretty much jammed shut! There is quite a lot of literature available about the streamlining of 46229 in preservation and I think it is pretty well known that the task was complicated by lack of or  incomplete drawings so the end result is more for show than function. Sad but true.

[Pete the Elaner]

51 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said:

I what way difficult? The hinges are around the corner, how on earth can it be too difficult? 

Looks like those ones are only really of use if opening the doors from platform height, the lower ones being more useful from the front.

Maybe they just felt adding them was not worth it?

[cctransuk]

1 hour ago, MikeParkin65 said:

 It was said that 6229 is pretty much a static exhibit now and in any case there would be problems steaming 6229  and using it as an operational loco including the fact that

the doors are pretty much jammed shut!

 

So typical of today's attitude in the museum industry ! At one time, the works foreman would have said "That's no good - make them work properly" !

 

One of the few benefits of streamlining a static exhibit must surely be to demonstrate that the design allowed for the day-to-day maintenance of the loco to be undertaken?

 

As to it remaining a static exhibit, how can a silent, inanimate artifact hope to convey the sense of raw power and speed that was the primary objective of the streamlining in the first place? Frankly, they'd have been better not bothing at all, and using the money to revive another of their 'static exhibits'.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Pete the Elaner]

Hamilton's restoration was only cosmetic anyway. It would need a complete rebuild before it could run.

It would be nice to open the doors & see the smokebox door inside though.

 

I agree to a point about static exhibits, but there are plenty of steam locos in service.

[cctransuk]

50 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

Hamilton's restoration was only cosmetic anyway.

 

As with so many prima donnas - far too much money spent on cosmetics !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[robmcg]

Quite apart from opening the doors, those top handrails would have been essential for agile cleaners to use the front steps to reach the sides of the body and handrail...  presuming that's how the cleaning was done.

 

 

p.s. atom3624  the engine runs very well thanks, will have the larger wheels installed too, which on my older versions dealt with type 2-3 curves ok.... better on type 3 radius.

Edited July 26, 2019 by robmcg