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Hornby Princess Coronation Class (Duchess)


Dick Turpin
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I am in the process of changing ‘City of London’ to P4 via a Comet chassis. In doing so I have found the injectors to be an appalling representation of the actual item. Does anyone have or know of any good photographs of them. I fear fabrication is the order of progress here.

 

many thanks,

Best,

Marcus

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On 29/07/2019 at 09:13, Paul_sterling said:

 

The Stanier 3-cylinder 2-6-4 No.2500 was there in the 1970's, but in LMS black. I've crudely had a look on google, searching LMS Bressingham, but only the Duchess, Scot and 2500 come up, that's not to say anything else didn't though. 

 

Hornby offered their LMS 'Black Five' in lined red in the 1970's/early 80's, that was not in relation to one of the preserved 'black fives' being painted that colour was it?

 

Cheers, Paul. 

It was. This is July ‘72. If there had been a Jubilee I would have photographed that too!scan0236.jpg.06096a618c11e945022b256f65cd19fd.jpg

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I remember '6100' Crimson Lake'd Royal Scot, with bell, as well as 70013, and 6233 without blinkers (I preferred this look).

 

It's quite some time ago, but 3 years after your photo, for my visit, I thought there had been an LMS-liveried Jubilee as well.

 

Al.

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28 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

I remember '6100' Crimson Lake'd Royal Scot, with bell, as well as 70013, and 6233 without blinkers (I preferred this look).

 

It's quite some time ago, but 3 years after your photo, for my visit, I thought there had been an LMS-liveried Jubilee as well.

 

Al.

 

I never remember a Jubilee being there. The preservation histories of the remaining 4 don't seem to support one ever being there.

 

 

I find something appealing about the look of a Duchess without deflectors. I doubt we will see one now though (apart from just after rebuild):

29 & 35 never ran without them in de-streamlined form. Who knows how 29 will stay streamlined for? Maybe permanently?

33 ran without them from 1938 until 1946 (had a single chimney until 1941).

But

The deflectors are there to lift smoke away from the driver's view. This is as much of a safety hazard now as it was then although safety is taken more seriously now.

 

One thing I have wondered:

Double chimneys were fitted after successful tests with 6234 Duchess of Abercorn & smoke deflectors fitted some time later.

Did the more gentle exhaust from a double chimney create the need for smoke deflectors?

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2 minutes ago, Pete the Elaner said:

 

I never remember a Jubilee being there. The preservation histories of the remaining 4 don't seem to support one ever being there.

 

 

I find something appealing about the look of a Duchess without deflectors. I doubt we will see one now though (apart from just after rebuild):

29 & 35 never ran without them in de-streamlined form. Who knows how 29 will stay streamlined for? Maybe permanently?

33 ran without them from 1938 until 1946 (had a single chimney until 1941).

But

The deflectors are there to lift smoke away from the driver's view. This is as much of a safety hazard now as it was then although safety is taken more seriously now.

 

One thing I have wondered:

Double chimneys were fitted after successful tests with 6234 Duchess of Abercorn & smoke deflectors fitted some time later.

Did the more gentle exhaust from a double chimney create the need for smoke deflectors?

 

Yes Pete, the change from single to double reduces the pressure over a given area, resulting in a softer exhaust, and this is usually what drives the need for deflectors. I think the single chimney Duchesses/Coronations didn't require deflectors until that point they were changed. 

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2 hours ago, atom3624 said:

I remember '6100' Crimson Lake'd Royal Scot, with bell, as well as 70013, and 6233 without blinkers (I preferred this look).

 

It's quite some time ago, but 3 years after your photo, for my visit, I thought there had been an LMS-liveried Jubilee as well.

 

Al.

 

It is possible the Jubilee had only been there visiting briefly. I can't help as to which one it would have been. All of the Jubs bar Galatea (that was still in bits then) have been in LMS Crimson in preservation. 

 

Edit

Bahamas - LMS Crimson from 1968 to 1973 (ticket ended, and I don't know how long it was before the overhaul started - which ended in 1988, and returned in BR Green)

Leander was saved in 1972 and restoration started then, I'm not clued up on her history other than the last 20 years. 

Kolhapur was saved then subject to restoration, not being completed to the 1980's into LMS Crimson. 

 

SO at a guess, if it was a Jub, it was probably Bahamas. 

 

Paul. 

Edited by Paul_sterling
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Hi Paul, for some reason I'm thinking of 'Leander', as it ties in the typical holidays of the time, and the Leander class Frigates if/as/when on the South Coast, going to Plymouth Navy Days - could be mistaken - LONG time ago.

 

Adding to my other comment, much prefer with the double chimney, and without, but totally understood the reason why, particularly under power at higher speeds - visibility.

I remember when riding on the footplate up that half mile of whatever it is/was, the DoS nearly blasting the trees into the next county, so relatively impressive was the blast - I was 14 at the time!

 

Al.

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25 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

Hi Paul, for some reason I'm thinking of 'Leander', as it ties in the typical holidays of the time, and the Leander class Frigates if/as/when on the South Coast, going to Plymouth Navy Days - could be mistaken - LONG time ago.

 

Adding to my other comment, much prefer with the double chimney, and without, but totally understood the reason why, particularly under power at higher speeds - visibility.

I remember when riding on the footplate up that half mile of whatever it is/was, the DoS nearly blasting the trees into the next county, so relatively impressive was the blast - I was 14 at the time!

 

Al.

 

Hi Al, 

 

possibly, it depends if they did a cosmetic restoration before starting on the mechanical restoration proper. purely based on the info on google, I'd guess the engine you saw was Bahamas. 

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Has Bahamas been rebuilt with a double chimney since the 70's?

 

Reason I ask is I feel it was a single I saw.

 

Mention was made of 'visiting engines', but I suppose that wasn't particularly easy with no direct rail links.

 

Al.

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13 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

Has Bahamas been rebuilt with a double chimney since the 70's?

 

Reason I ask is I feel it was a single I saw.

 

Mention was made of 'visiting engines', but I suppose that wasn't particularly easy with no direct rail links.

 

Al.

Bahamas had a single chimney up until 1961 - double ever since. The recent restoration funded by the Heritage Lottery fund was partly predicated on 45596's double chimney being 'BR's last steam experiment'. Some might say that is a bit of a stretch as the boiler was already in the pool and was simply transferred to 45596 at it last Heavy General overhaul :)

 

None of the preserved Jubilees have been to Bressingham - the only double chimney maroon loco's they has were 6100 and 6233.

Edited by MikeParkin65
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2 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Bahamas had a single chimney up until 1961 - double ever since. The recent restoration funded by the Heritage Lottery fund was partly predicated on 45596's double chimney being 'BR's last steam experiment'. Some might say that is a bit of a stretch as the boiler was already in the pool and was simply transferred to 45596 at it last Heavy General overhaul :)

 

None of the preserved Jubilees have been to Bressingham - the only double chimney maroon loco's they has were 6100 and 6233.

 
IIRC  45742 Connaught was also similarly equipped ?

 

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47 minutes ago, Ian Hargrave said:

 
IIRC  45742 Connaught was also similarly equipped ?

 


5553 had a double chimney for a short time, fitted in 1940.

(4)5742 had a double chimney from 1940 to 1955.

45596 was fitted with one in 1961, which it still has.

45722 was tried with a double chimney on the Rugby test plant in 1956, but never ran with it in service.

5684 had a Kylchap exhaust from 1937 to 1938.

(4)5735 and (4)5736 got double chimneys when rebuilt in 1942.

 

(Edit to add - information from Irwell’s “The Book of the Jubilee 4-6-0s”.)

Edited by pH
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Just sharing a happy discovery. The comet etching for the Duchess bogie is a direct fit to the Hornby mounting arm on the current model. Better that that, although half the weight of the Hornby supplied bogie (10 grams rather than 21 grams) the Hornby spring supplies sufficient force to keep it on the track. My desire to change the bogie came from wanting to see the distinctive front stretcher with its 3 apertures rather than the coupling mount that Hornby place there though I also think the Comet bogie looks more convincing from the side view as well.. I've also fitted Alan Gibson wheels which are a massive improvement I think. Photo is 46229 so fitted with 46235 for comparison with original bogie but fitted with Gibsons.

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1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

I'm still hoping for 6256 in 1946 black.

Do I stay patient or buy a BR one & re-spray it?

 

I am hoping for this to be done as well, but I could do with it not appearing for a couple of years - until I have the funds!

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1 hour ago, Pete the Elaner said:

I'm still hoping for 6256 in 1946 black.

Do I stay patient or buy a BR one & re-spray it?

A question if I may. Does anyone do the lining transfers for this scheme, or are you one of the very talented people who can use a lining pen?

 

Although I'm not particularly an LMS fan, it is a very striking livery, and I wouldn't mind doing the odd respray myself. Someone on here did a Britannia in it a while back, which looked totally stunning.

 

Many thanks,

 

John.

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