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A Rivet Counter's Guide To the Ruston 165HP locomotives


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2 hours ago, Down_Under said:

Do you have the rough dimensions of this plate? Height and thr width across thr RH and Ruston &hornsby part? 

 

The measurements for the RH part are 178mm x 200mm. I took a cast of the plate fitted to DE165 268881 while it was at ERM Coventry and used it to make resin copies to which were fitted to the loco. 

 

The plate over all is 260mm x 345mm

 

cg501

 

 

IMG_20200725_134700095.jpg

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A couple of photos of Reed's 165 DE at Aylesford paper mill on Historic England.

https://historicengland.org.uk/images-books/photos/item/AA101388

https://historicengland.org.uk/images-books/photos/item/AA101389

 

A couple from my collection below

 

Also some on the thread 

 

And for the record, taken from my notes in the same thread:

 

APM Diesel Shunter ‘Hornblower’.

 

Details taken from the engineer’s dept record card, c. 1984.

Ruston -Hornsby 165DE Wo 416211

Engine 6VPH 416586

Front axle 30 cwt

Rear axle 34 cwt

Total weight 29T 2 cwt

Less wheels 26T 2 cwt

Full width 8’6”

Full height 11’0”

Full length 21’11”

Cab roof – centre line lift holes 7’8”

Lift to clear wheels 2’6”

Compressor Broomwade TN13

No /340719 spec. 314/0507

Engine data:

Firing order124653

Bumping clearance 0.060” ± 0.004”

Valve clearance 0.015”

Big ends and Mains 0.0025” – 0.005” max

Injectors 3000 psi

BHP 150

Max RPM 1250

Bore 5.375” Stroke 8”

Injection 30° BTDC

Fan belts B79 – 2 off

Compressor belts A86 – 3 off

Engine water pump races 620422

 

Hope this is of interest, regards

 

 

Hornblower and Car 01.jpg

Hornblower and Car 02.jpg

Edited by Artless Bodger
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Reminds me of a 37 that bent an old Rover Coupé, like the Queen has, so that the headlights and rear lights were almost facing the same way. It had been left across a level crossing at Golant on the Fowey china clay branch in Cornwall whilst it's owner was launching a boat.

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On 26/07/2020 at 17:58, Artless Bodger said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hornblower and Car 01.jpg

Hornblower and Car 02.jpg

That's an interesting one. Large windows on the cab rear but without the sloping cab front.

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While on the topic of Aylesford paper mill, here is a nice close up of 'HORNBLOWER' (1957) on the rear a showing those large windows, plus smaller 'inspection window' from Gordon Edgar on Flickr:

 

Hornblower

 

Looks like the cab has taken a bit of a bump and its missing some glass from one of the windows

 

A BR DM having a rest in a shed from Hugh Llewelyn on Flickr:

 

D2958

 

Note that is has been fitted with marker lights as per Class 03/04/08 etc

 

An ICI 165DE 'KELVIN' (1957) with early style cab front, large rear cab windows (check inside the cab!), later style shunters steps at the front - and 'DE style' coupling rods (more teardrop shaped at the crankpin end rather than massive more angular DM/DS type) by G-IBTZ on Flickr. 

 

Ruston & Hornsby 402807 1957 at Northwich on the 31 of July 1984

 

RE cab design is 1957 a transition year before the slope front cab introduced c.1958/59? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Down_Under
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On 25/07/2020 at 21:00, cg501 said:

 

The measurements for the RH part are 178mm x 200mm. I took a cast of the plate fitted to DE165 268881 while it was at ERM Coventry and used it to make resin copies to which were fitted to the loco. 

 

The plate over all is 260mm x 345mm

 

cg501

 

 

IMG_20200725_134700095.jpg

 

Cheers, looking at some custom plates. 

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On 28/07/2020 at 15:01, Down_Under said:

 

Looks like the cab has taken a bit of a bump and its missing some glass from one of the windows

Yes, it was like that until the end - see photos on the Aylesford Paper Mills Traffic thread. The loco was later moved to East Mill via the mainline sometime around 1980.

 

I think the small window was to allow the driver sight of the coupling? The SR prototype DE shunters had something similar.

 

It was a nice easy loco to drive, just the throttle, air brake and reversing levers, duplicated each side with a cross shaft linking the two handles. If my memory serves, to start up:

Open the front left hand bonnet panel and use the hand pump to pump some oil around he engine bearings, then into the cab. Check the power contactor key switch was off, open the throttle and open the starting valve to let air from the bottle turn the engine over until it caught, then shut the valve quickly to avoid wasting air. Then before you could move the loco you had to pump up the brake reservoir - the power contactor would not close until you had enough brake air to stop the loco, but if the key was on then as soon as the pressure reached the appropriate level, the loco would be off!  When we shunted the last chlorine tanker off site the brake air pressure dropped enough to stop the loco part way up the siding and we had to have a blow-up before we could complete the shunt. Before shutting the engine down we'd make sure the bottle was well charged - I think the gauge went up to 300 psi? Anything over 200 psi would be enough. Then make sure the air valves were shut and pull the decompression handle to run the engine down. 

 

If there was not enough air pressure in the bottle to start the engine, there was a petrol donkey engine compressor in the bonnet just in front of the cab, behind the rearmost left hand bonnet panel. This had to be cranked by hand (holding down the decompression valve on the compressor) until it fired, then close the decompression valve, and wait for the air pressure to reach the level to start the diesel. We spent quite a lot of energy trying to get the compressor running one dinnertime - until we found there was no spark - someone had nicked the battery! It was an awkward job as the crank handle (spring loaded retracting handle) was low down and the footplate quite narrow at that point, quite a balancing act.

 

 

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I found a 5'3" gauge 165DM in Ireland back in the late-80s

 

32920128745_7415bcc817_5k.jpgNo3 Ruston by Alan Monk, on Flickr

 

I picked up a fairly old, part-built etched 7mm kit for a 165DM a few years back. I was planning to finish it as one of the BR duo, though I'd not decided on original black as 11507/8 or green/wasps as D2957/8 (or perhaps even a hybrid black as (small)D2957... 

 

I'll see if I can dig it out and share a pic or two. It came complete with a rolling chassis, Mashy can motor and with the cab, bonnet and footplate pretty much built, plus a bunch of castings to finish it off. Was nice and cheap too, sub-£50. :)

Edited by CloggyDog
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 28/07/2020 at 14:22, Down_Under said:

 

Thanks for the plug!

 

I am the lucky owner of the Thompson Loco Collection and I was fortunately in a position to save these unique beasts. Sadly due to COVID I havent been able to go any further with them but we are hoping to have the first one moved in the next month or so to Darley Dale to join YEC 2679 Ford No.3. It will be a long project as unfortunately 423658 (No.3) has a cracked engine block but a spare was thrown in so it's a case of build up a fresh engine from the 2. 421439 (No.1) will hopefully be more straightforward as she was in use before her engine was stripped to fit new bearing shells which was never completed but should hopefully be in a better position to get running soon. And they will both have the Tandem system reinstated and updated to feature train Air and Vacuum brakes.

 

I'm not too sure of the exact amount but i know Colvilles had at least 4 of the Tandem fitted rustons as C.I.W No.5 as seen in earlier photos doesn't seem to have had the rear pipework fitted and has the larger compressors in the bulges of the bonnets which mine do not feature. 

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  • 3 months later...

Just to add a little to Jordan's comments.

 

Colvilles bought a number of the tandem version of the 165DE for various of their steelworks in Scotland, including four in 1958 for Clyde Ironworks. The slag ladles at Clyde had a powered tipping mechanism, originally operated by steam and for which some of their steam locos had connecting pipework. So that the diesels could operate the slag ladles, but instead using compressed air, Rustons supplied an air compressor vehicle. The final two 165DE built for Clyde in 1963 were not equipped for tandem operation, but did include a compressor housed in a large casing in front of the cab so that they could operate the slag ladles directly. Possibly that was not very successful, or it was too expensive, because when Hunslet diesel hydraulics replaced the Rustons in the early 1970s they reverted to using a separate compressor vehicle. By 1976 only two Rustons were left, Nos.1 (421439) and 4 (423659), as spare to the diesel hydraulics, but by then the tandem equipment had been removed. The attached photos show No.1 at that time, in its final British Steel livery, and also with No.4 (and a compressor wagon), clearly showing that the rear pipework for tandem operation has been removed.

Clyde Ironworks  No.1.jpg

Clyde Ironworks Nos 1 and 4.jpg

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On 28/07/2020 at 14:22, Down_Under said:

 

5 hours ago, Stanton said:

 

Clyde Ironworks Nos 1 and 4.jpg

 

That's an interesting variation in the cabs, doors in the back AND the sides, presumably for operational reasons with the compessor wagons.  Not something you usually see in industrial locos.

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The rear cab door is because these were built for tandem operation, with control from either cab. They worked back to back, and the door allowed to driver to move between cabs, to whichever driving position gave the better view.

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On 05/12/2020 at 00:25, Stanton said:

Just to add a little to Jordan's comments.

 

Colvilles bought a number of the tandem version of the 165DE for various of their steelworks in Scotland, including four in 1958 for Clyde Ironworks. The slag ladles at Clyde had a powered tipping mechanism, originally operated by steam and for which some of their steam locos had connecting pipework. So that the diesels could operate the slag ladles, but instead using compressed air, Rustons supplied an air compressor vehicle. The final two 165DE built for Clyde in 1963 were not equipped for tandem operation, but did include a compressor housed in a large casing in front of the cab so that they could operate the slag ladles directly. Possibly that was not very successful, or it was too expensive, because when Hunslet diesel hydraulics replaced the Rustons in the early 1970s they reverted to using a separate compressor vehicle. By 1976 only two Rustons were left, Nos.1 (421439) and 4 (423659), as spare to the diesel hydraulics, but by then the tandem equipment had been removed. The attached photos show No.1 at that time, in its final British Steel livery, and also with No.4 (and a compressor wagon), clearly showing that the rear pipework for tandem operation has been removed.

Clyde Ironworks  No.1.jpg

Clyde Ironworks Nos 1 and 4.jpg


Thank you for the information Stanton! That fills in a lot of gaps. It’s nice to see photos of mine in traffic, also gives good details of the livery. 
 

No.1 has got it’s tandem equipment now, not sure weather it was reinstated or only had the pipes removed but she has run in tandem on preservation with No.3 afaik. 
 

I wonder what happened to No.4 for No.3 to be chosen for preservation instead.

 

Are these photos yours Stanton and may I use them on my page for the locos?

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Jordan,

 

Yes, you're welcome to use the photos, which I took on 16th June 1976. Regarding the absence of the pipework for tandem operation, I suspect that they rarely worked in tandem at Clyde. Certainly the regular duties there should have been within the capacity of a single loco. However, the tandem connections were definitely used with the air compressor unit that Rustons supplied specifically to work with numbers 1 to 4 so that they could operate the slag ladles. In the Industrial Railway Society's quarterly journal, the Industrial Railway Record, issue no. 226 (September 2016), there is a photo of No.4 connected to that compressor. In the final years that unit seems to have been replaced by what I assume was a unit made at Clyde, with a compressor mounted on a flat wagon and using a DC electric motor, powered through an armoured cable connected to the 165DE's traction circuit (which was modified accordingly), and an air hose was also fixed to the loco's running plate. No.1 was fitted to operate that compressor, and probably No.4 as well. The Ruston tandem control pipework would have then been superfluous, and may have even been in the way, which would explain why it was  removed. The control equipment would have been retained, so it would have been easy to reinstate the pipework, and remove the fittings for the electric compressor, which I believe is what happened when, or soon after, No.1 moved to Falkirk.

 

When Clyde closed in 1978 No.4 was sent to British Steel's Shapfell Limestone Quarry where it worked for about 10 years. It was eventually scrapped by T.J.Thomson, Stockton, in September 1999.

 

The original Colville's livery was green, but British Steel repainted them in their corporate light blue.

 

If you are interested in the photo of No.4 with the Ruston compressor, back copies of Industrial Railway Record No.226  are still available at www.irsshop.co.uk/Records . You might also find issue No.219 (December 2014) of interest, because it has a 1978 photo of No.1 in almost the same position as mine, but with the electric compressor and showing the extra pipework on the running plate; there is also a photo of No.3 running under its own power over BR metals when moving from Glasgow to the SRPS, Falkirk in 1975.    

 

Thank you for saving these two, and I wish you well with their restoration. Five tandems went to Scottish heritage railways but the other three, including at least one that was donated free by British Steel, were subsequently scrapped.

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  • 3 months later...

Giving this thread a bump as it has become relevant again with the Narrow Planet kit now available.  Lots of variations to get excited about!

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There was several of these at Barrington Cement works over the years, all of them were the later type with a raked front to the cab. This included the last pair of 165's built. They were fitted with sliding doors over their radiators, as opposed to protective mesh.  

 

Here's another example at Barrington. This loco doesn't appear to have been photographed as much as the other three and didn't last long - evidently ex-Yorkshire Water Authority. 

 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/12a_kingmoor_klickr/7251968054/in/album-72157629560956868/

 

 

One thing to note if modelling these locos in 4mm is that the handrails are notably finer than those to be found on steam prototypes. I would suggest an improvement some modelers may like to adopt is to simulate these with 0.3mm wire and N gauge HRKs. 

 

Paul A. 

 

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