Pointwork / turnouts - how tight ?

[ThePurplePrimer]

Could anyone suggest how tight the pointwork might have been in a private sidings or small goods yard ?

 

Do you think they would have been much tighter than say a 1 in 4 ?

 

Something that a small 0-6-0 might be able to negotiate at a crawl with 4 wheel wagons

[PatB]

A while ago I paced out a curve in plain track at Gloucester docks and found it to be, as near as makes no difference, the equivalent of 00 first radius. I've no reason to suppose that the point leading to it was anything greater. Yes, I know that curve radius is not used to describe prototype pointwork, but I find it convenient to think in such terms, particularly when the prototype is exhibiting train-set tendencies . IIRC I once worked out that the crossing angle for such geometry would end up around 1 in 2 or 2.5 ish.

[£1.38]

A small 0-4-0 would be far more likely than an 0-6-0 on very tight curves.

 

Really sharp curves might stretch credibility a bit far though. The sensible option there was a road vehicle fitted with a large buffing plate, once the horse shunting era had passed. See this topic.

[avonside1563]

1 in 5 turnouts are common in industrial sites and I've seen tighter but usually only negotiated by small 0-4-0 locos. 0-6-0s can negotiate a 1 in 5 as long as they are of a shorter wheelbase. A jinty or pannier tank would struggle. The longest wheelbase we have had round a 1 in 5 at Foxfield was the RSH side tank Meaford No.2 when it was a resident. The little Lewin tank now at Beamish used to negotiate very tight curves under the staithes at Seaham Harbour.

[Siberian Snooper]

The tightest in Devonport Dockyard is 1 in 3.5, only negotiated by 0-4-0s and around a 2 chain radius.

[Osgood]

These points at Snowdon Colliery look very similar to Jim's 34" radius point above:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/35mm-Slide-Industrial-Steam-Loco-NCB-Snowdown-Colliery-Sir-Thomas-1979-Original-/272462793251?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368

[ThePurplePrimer]

I have ordered some Peco individulay sleepers and chairs ( I intend to use Peco code 124 flexi )

 

I will probably try and build a simple turnout first and see how it goes before trying to develop a plan for my very small space

 

I am wondering already though what would seem a sensible track spacing for the sidings in this environment ?

[Gordon A]

You still need enough clearance  for wagons and loads to pass, and for people to walk safely between them.

I would allow a scale 15 feet between track centres.

 

Gordon A

[5050]

There's some tight pointwork to be seen here -

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/114184-hodbarrow-hematite-mine/

[ThePurplePrimer]

There's some tight pointwork to be seen here -

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/114184-hodbarrow-hematite-mine/

Thanks for the link - excellent video

[Osgood]

Cheers Jim - much appreciated!

 

Tony

[Mike Storey]

How will you achieve this using an 0-6-0 without either using a flangeless centre set, or significant side play?

[ThePurplePrimer]

How will you achieve this using an 0-6-0 without either using a flangeless centre set, or significant side play?

Hi Mike

 

I am guessing this was meant for me ?

 

To be honest I have no idea what the minimum I can get away with actually is - I think the Peco Setrack that is coming soon (?) is going to be a 1 : 4.25 ( I think ) , I wonder what they suppose will get around that ?

[Mike Storey]

 

Hello Mike,

 

What a shame you live in France I would have invited you to pop round so that I could demonstrate these two locos going through my 34" radius points

 

I made the Manning Wardle from the drawing in the Oakwood Press book on the North Sunderland Railway

And the Dubs from a sketch and a photograph in the Jersey Railway OP book, the loco was sold to the WC&P and named Clevedon.

 

Cheers - Jim

 

[edit] Ohhh I thought your post was in response to mine, I'm not so sure now as you didn't head it in any way, apologies if it wasn't mean't for me

 

 

Hi Jim

 

No it was meant for Rob, but you have clearly proven that a 34" rad will work. I don't work in 0, but my brother does, and his club seem to stick to 48" as a minimum. I notice your locos are fully flanged. Have you widened the gauge out slightly through the radius? Or do your locos have floating centre axles? What angle are your points - Rob seems to be looking for 1 in 4, whereas yours appear to be perhaps 15 degs?

[Mike Storey]

 

Hello Mike,

 

Thanks for the questions, both locos were made in the early 80's, drilling brass chassis with a hand drill, unlike today I had no information so both chassis are not bushed, the holes in the MW's chassis are somewhat worn now and I made slots for the Dubs wheels, the MW conrods are filed from one length of thick nickel silver, so no possibility of any side movement. I was at a show in Leamington and someone came up with a Terrier that they'd made from a kit, that worked fine.

 

I use a track gauge I bought from Roy at Modellers Mecca all the way through the point construction it was made for Code 100 rail. I used a Cane from Eileen's allotment to draw the curves on some A4 paper, a nail to go into the carpet and two holes 32mm apart to take a Pentel pencil.

 

If you are unsure about radii then get some rail make a curved bit of track and try a few locos on it. One sees so much mis-information these days I find the best way is to try something for myself, that way I don't prevaricate I just do it.

 

Cheers - Jim

 

[edit] I got a protractor and printed off a point drawing they are 15 degrees. At a show last year I met a guy who drove an industrial loco he said he couldn't eat his bacon, egg and tomato dip sandwich with both hands on it while going through the points he would have been thrown out of the cab. Looking at the points in the book I have on the Selsey Tramway I can see why.

 

 

Very fine pieces of practical model engineering. Just goes to show that theory is not always the best guide!!

 

I would have thought your 15 degs preferable to what Rob is proposing, but I am beginning to wonder now!

[The Bigbee Line]

I was looking on the internet the other day, there is a website that allows you to view 2 maps, side by side. The Sugar factory at Wissington has sidings to the south that seem to head off into the fields. Extreme tight curves etc. They look almost 90 degree...

[sir douglas]

my points are only 1 in 3.5 crossing angle but since im only using 0-4-0 and short wheelbase 0-6-0 and only 4 wheeled wagons i cant see there being any problems with it

 

i dont know about curve radii as they were drawn on Templot to have the same crossing angle and to fit on my layout 

DSCN0307 by Sam, on Flickr

[Siberian Snooper]

Templot will give you the radius, drag the info box downwards and then scroll it and you will find it.