Class 142

[66738]

I have just noticed that an auction for a Hornby 142, in Northern livery (R3140?) ended the other day on a popular auction site, and it amazingly went for £268 (inc postage)! I admit it is a fairly rare model but that price surely indicates that the Realtrack offering will prove to be popular and do very well indeed.  
66738

[cs233]

23 hours ago, charliepetty said:

Silly people, and the model is crap and inaccurate,

 

Charlie

 

 

Hardly a fair comparison for a model that dates from summer 1989. Clearly by the current standards it is way off the pace. However in 2050 maybe people will think the same for yet to be released Realtrack version? 

 

For 1989 standards they did a reasonable job of hiding most of the motor area. I have a model purchased in August 1989 (new) in GMPTE Orange for £24, it still runs to this day despite having been run fairly regular for many hundreds of hours. Yes not of current standards but when judged on the market and general standards of the day clearly not 'crap'.  

[BR Blue]

Personally I think £268 is silly for a model of that era. I have a Hornby 142 I bought many years ago. It was good for its day but its day was a long long time ago. I had much more hair then. Even if its a rare variation you could easily pick one up  in a different livery and get it professionally resprayed for less £268. Obviously from a collector's viewpoint it maybe different and its the rarity that is the attraction. However something is only worth whatever someone is willing to pay. You do see some crazy things on eBay.

[amwells]

9 minutes ago, BR Blue said:

Personally I think £268 is silly for a model of that era. I have a Hornby 142 I bought many years ago. It was good for its day but its day was a long long time ago. I had much more hair then. Even if its a rare variation you could easily pick one up  in a different livery and get it professionally resprayed for less £268. Obviously from a collector's viewpoint it maybe different and its the rarity that is the attraction. However something is only worth whatever someone is willing to pay. You do see some crazy things on eBay.

It is silly money, but it’s the only available RTR version (for now...). So I guess if you’re desperate for one, this is the route. 
 

I’m happy to wait, but not everyone will be...

Edited March 29, 2020 by amwells
Typo

[adb968008]

Until the Realtrack one emerges, it is still the best oo gauge 142 on the market.

 

The Northern 144 is equally selling for similar amounts.

 

once the virus passes, I wonder what state the economy, taxation, exchange  rate & peoples affordability will be in for a new one. Ive already seen some big price hikes in my nearly empty local supermarkets... £1+ for a cucumber.. it was 50p two weeks ago.

[TravisM]

54 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

£1+ for a cucumber.. it was 50p two weeks ago.

You could have got two for that price 

[MGR Hooper!]

@Charlie

Just a word of advice from a potential customer. You seem to be obsessed with degrading and ridculing Hornby's older products lately. I saw it on your Class 156 thread and I've seen it here (I can't seem to find the post now, but I can see someone has quoted it).

- First of all, Hornby's Class 142 and Class 156 come from era where such models were fine. Today these models are sold at a cheaper price and they aren't aimed at your client base. It's two different markets.

- A comparison between two products from two eras at two different price points isn't a fair comparison. We may think it's not acceptable today, but a lot of people will still buy it. Why - money or the lack of it.

- Your rather harsh views on them and constant need to degrade them reflects very poorly on you and ultimately your company as you publicly represent it.
- Please let your products speak for itself. It's aimed at a different market. A child or a modeller on a budget will not look at a Realtrack Class 142 or 156. And a person looking for a highly detailed, functional model won't look at the Hornby models.

- What you're essentially doing is drumming up more divided opinions and it's just going to become more of an issue. Rmweb already has enough of that already.

- If Realtrack existed in the late 1980s, you'll wouldn't have been producing models to the standard you do today. 

 

Please do keep thatin mind, if Hornby announced a brand new Class 142 and Class 156, produce it at their usual standard. Then I'd understand your frustration. But as of now, it just comes across as unwarranted and a damaging image. I know I am not the only one who thinks that. I'm probably the only one who'd say that.

 

PS: I'm not saying you're not entitled to your own opinion, however when your means of communication is also one of your official ways to communicate with customers, it just doesn't reflect well. And as I have said before, your comparisons really don't make sense and it just seems like you have a bone to pick. It's competition in an open market. Just accept it and let your products do the talking.

 

Cheers.

Edited March 30, 2020 by MGR Hooper!

[arran]

HI All

 

I think Charlie being Yorkshire through and through and being as blunt as an old axe says it how it is.

 

Regards Arran

[Gibbo675]

2 hours ago, arran said:

HI All

 

I think Charlie being Yorkshire through and through and being as blunt as an old axe says it how it is.

 

Regards Arran

Hi Arran,

 

I'll second that, having met him at various shows you have hit the nail on the head !

 

What is in print does not translate to the humour of the man when speaking with him.

 

Gibbo.

[Guest Half-full]

2 hours ago, Gibbo675 said:

Hi Arran,

 

I'll second that, having met him at various shows you have hit the nail on the head !

 

What is in print does not translate to the humour of the man when speaking with him.

 

Gibbo.

I agree, blunt, but very funny and very very helpful

[46444]

Likewise. I'd agree with other members sentiments Re: Charlie.

 

A thoroughly decent Yorkshireman who is straight to the point. He also provides an excellent service and product. 

 

I actually felt MGRHooper's post was threatening in the style it was written in and the continued Hornby bias is verging on becoming painful. Is he employed by Hornby? 

 

If he actually looked back at what he's written he may learn something himself about etiquette and respect for other members. 

 

Pots and Kettles springs to mind. 

 

Mark

[Markwj]

58 minutes ago, 46444 said:

Likewise. I'd agree with other members sentiments Re: Charlie.

 

A thoroughly decent Yorkshireman who is straight to the point. He also provides an excellent service and product. 

 

I actually felt MGRHooper's post was threatening in the style it was written in and the continued Hornby bias is verging on becoming painful. Is he employed by Hornby? 

 

If he actually looked back at what he's written he may learn something himself about etiquette and respect for other members. 

 

Pots and Kettles springs to mind. 

 

Mark

Quite agree regarding the Hornby fanboy (girl) some of the fawning posts for Hornby from that particular poster over time have been cringeworthy I suspect Charlie may be expecting Hornby to announce a shed load of class 142 around the time his is released as per their usual spoiling tactics.

Edited March 30, 2020 by Markwj

[MGR Hooper!]

10 hours ago, 46444 said:

 

I actually felt MGRHooper's post was threatening in the style it was written in and the continued Hornby bias is verging on becoming painful. Is he employed by Hornby? 

 

If he actually looked back at what he's written he may learn something himself about etiquette and respect for other members. 

 

Pots and Kettles springs to mind. 

 

Mark

Your clear lack of picking up on the obvious is quite frightful. A woman's image with a woman's name and you still refer to me as a "he"... LOL. If you read it as threatening, then that's your problem. There's literally a post above yours that says written content doesn't come across as well as something verbal.

FYI, I gave some simple constructive criticism on brand image. I wish I was employed by Hornby or Dapol or any brand that manufactures model trains for that matter. But I have my own business to run and my own model train kits and RTR models to sell.

 

As for brand owners trying to heavily criticize other brands, I've already seen another friend's brand go down after he couldn't stop praising his own products and criticizing another manufacturers products. As a small business, small things like this have big impacts. If you have an issue with me providing constructive criticism then there's options to ignore forum users.

 

 

Quote

Quite agree regarding the Hornby fanboy (girl) some of the fawning posts for Hornby from that particular poster over time have been cringeworthy
 

 

Ever heard of the "Ignore User" option??? No one is forced to read everyone's comments.

[46444]

24 minutes ago, MGR Hooper! said:

Your clear lack of picking up on the obvious is quite frightful. A woman's image with a woman's name and you still refer to me as a "he"... LOL. If you read it as threatening, then that's your problem. There's literally a post above yours that says written content doesn't come across as well as something verbal.

FYI, I gave some simple constructive criticism on brand image. I wish I was employed by Hornby or Dapol or any brand that manufactures model trains for that matter. But I have my own business to run and my own model train kits and RTR models to sell.

 

As for brand owners trying to heavily criticize other brands, I've already seen another friend's brand go down after he couldn't stop praising his own products and criticizing another manufacturers products. As a small business, small things like this have big impacts. If you have an issue with me providing constructive criticism then there's options to ignore forum users.

 

 

 

Ever heard of the "Ignore User" option??? No one is forced to read everyone's comments.

 

 

I rest my case entirely.....

[66738]

I think we all say things on here in the spur of the moment, then maybe we reflect on it and come to the decision that perhaps what had been said was maybe not getting across our point quite how we would like. Charlie deleted his post after cs233 had quoted it, and given a good argument why it was not really fair to compare the old Hornby product to what will be a state of the art Realtrack unit. I think this shows Charlie reflected on what he had said and acted to ‘take his views back’. 
As a fellow Yorkshireman, I can say that we are fairly blunt and to the point. Especially when money and value for money become involved. “How much?!!!!” Is often in our thought process. 
I’m sure a lot of you have come across Charlie in person at shows/exhibitions and he sure is a character. Blunt, to the point and quite different to other vendors. Allowances for his unusual personality are often taken into account as offence could easily be taken by unsuspecting individuals.
I wish I’d never started this whole debate off. I was just wanting to highlight the demand out there for the 142. I did not want to create any ill feeling on this board. 
66738

Edited March 31, 2020 by 66738

[The Black Hat]

Not to worry 66738. I too have had issues with sarcasm being miss interpreted and had it where straight talking northern directness gets seen as objectional - even when put into a detailed response.

Lets get things in perspective though. The demand for the 142 is going to be very big. Charlie has several options to add subtle differences on the model and get the units made to high standard which is going to set it apart from the Hornby offering.

Charlie is a straight talking guy, but like most up north is not daft. He is fair to others, supportive and on balance gives a fair account of how things have developed in the hobby. He knows he is aiming for the niche areas of the interest and supplying the top end quality products that might out weigh quantity overall. I hope he has been able to capitalise on some of the things he has brought to market, such as Biffo sound chips that Hattons have used in their models after interest was shown - as its through Charlie and Arran in turn that he has gained such success. It would only be fair.

Meanwhile - being a good northern guy I know Charlie will also appreciate loyalty and good humour - so can we have a Tyne and Wear 142 next please Charlie...

[cs233]

Have bumped in to Charlie many times at various exhibitions over the years and has always been nice to speak to. However the experience in dealing with Realtrack Models in my opinion has been negative. Nothing to do with delays of the product e.g. Class 156 but when my debit card was replaced by the bank due to it having a fault and it did not work when Charlie attempted payment there was no communication simply the order was not delivered and until I contacted Charlie no action was taken. Even after full payment was made with the new card it was a four week delay before the item was even shipped. Still not the end of the world but there is more:

 

The Class 156 when it finally arrived had a fault, this was due to the factory missing adding a component during assembly, sent it back to Charlie and it was returned with the part installed, when I  asked for return of the postage costs for essentially making a warranty claim there was no reply. Despite significant time going past still no response from Realtrack Models. Despite all the research outcomes suggesting the seller should pay for postage when making a genuine warranty claim that they have admitted in writing is a factory production fault still messages are simply not answered and basically ignored.

 

When the Class 142 comes out I may purchase but it would not be via Realtrack directly but would use one of the retailers such as Hattons, Rails or Kernow as dealing directly has proved to be a poor overall experience. Also the principal of not responding to messages that ask for return of postage costs due to the product being supplied with a very noticeable missing part are quite frankly unexpected from any professional organisation. Also the issue that Charlie has now deleted his comment regarding negative remarks for the Hornby 142 stating and I quote 'the model is crap and inaccurate' does raise some unfortunate issues.

 

[Latic]

Have Hornby made noises about releasing a 142 again?  How quickly will depend on if they've found the original tooling mould?

Agree it will sell well as both budget and high spec. 

 

[newbryford]

On 30/03/2020 at 20:44, 46444 said:

 

 

A thoroughly decent Yorkshireman

 

Oxymoron alert.............

 

Actually - a double oxymoron alert.

 

(No connection with Charlie, except that I've known him for over 30 years [*] when he used his BSL works van at weekends to ply his trade flogging EM2 stuff)

 

Cheers,

Mick

 

[*] You get less time for murder with good behaviour.

[charliepetty]

3 hours ago, cs233 said:

Have bumped in to Charlie many times at various exhibitions over the years and has always been nice to speak to. However the experience in dealing with Realtrack Models in my opinion has been negative. Nothing to do with delays of the product e.g. Class 156 but when my debit card was replaced by the bank due to it having a fault and it did not work when Charlie attempted payment there was no communication simply the order was not delivered and until I contacted Charlie no action was taken. Even after full payment was made with the new card it was a four week delay before the item was even shipped. Still not the end of the world but there is more:

 

The Class 156 when it finally arrived had a fault, this was due to the factory missing adding a component during assembly, sent it back to Charlie and it was returned with the part installed, when I  asked for return of the postage costs for essentially making a warranty claim there was no reply. Despite significant time going past still no response from Realtrack Models. Despite all the research outcomes suggesting the seller should pay for postage when making a genuine warranty claim that they have admitted in writing is a factory production fault still messages are simply not answered and basically ignored.

 

When the Class 142 comes out I may purchase but it would not be via Realtrack directly but would use one of the retailers such as Hattons, Rails or Kernow as dealing directly has proved to be a poor overall experience. Also the principal of not responding to messages that ask for return of postage costs due to the product being supplied with a very noticeable missing part are quite frankly unexpected from any professional organisation. Also the issue that Charlie has now deleted his comment regarding negative remarks for the Hornby 142 stating and I quote 'the model is crap and inaccurate' does raise some unfortunate issues.

 

 

[charliepetty]

I need an address and a name to refund your £4.00 postage.

 

PM Me on this forum, sorry I missed your E.Mail.

 

I am the only one here doing everything, with upto 200 e.mails per week and going to shows on Fri-Sat & Sundays, its not always possible to do everything, events do overtake you.

 

With this Virus going about its the first time in 10 years that I have a chance of getting non work related stuff done, and another bonus.  DAYS OFF !!!!!!!!!!!

 

Sorry Charlie

[25901]

30 minutes ago, charliepetty said:

With this Virus going about its the first time in 10 years that I have a chance of getting non work related stuff done, and another bonus.  DAYS OFF !!!!!!!!!!!

 

Sorry Charlie

 

The main thing is to stay safe Charlie and stay at least 2 meters away from any 142s

[adb968008]

I think comments of older Hornby models is valid, afterall the reason the model is poor is lack of investment in that type by that manufacturer.

 

If they don't invest in it, doesn't mean to say everyone has to say its a good model, especially if someone is prepared to put their own money down to make a better one.

 

i should add its bi-directional, some comments by larger manufacturers Reps are somewhat interesting about hobbyists, its just you dont see them in print.

 

i should add Charlies comments in person are one of the highlights at exhibitions, I always leave with a horrified smile, so I always go back for more.

 

 

Edited April 2, 2020 by adb968008

[Phil Mc]

Charlie’s comments aren’t as horrifying as his socks and sandals combo.......

 

cheers,

Phil.

[charliepetty]

Thanks!

 

Something went wrong when I ordered these from my Self Isolation Office !!

 

Edited April 2, 2020 by charliepetty