sharris Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 (edited) Here are a few pictures from my iPhone. I have to admit, modern image isn't really my thing, so it's lacking in my pictures, but there certainly were some good examples there. Well done to everyone for putting on a great show. Edited March 26, 2017 by sharris 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benjamin Brady Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Good evening, Again we come down to the age old discussion about what is modern image? In my eyes I view it from around the 1990's onward's (then again is that slipping into an era of its own? Should modern image not be classed as privatisation onwards considering it's birth was 20 years ago?) and is often what I gauge my attendance at a show off. I am also a fan of seeing models that mirror the contemporary railway and was informed by those who have attended that there was nothing of this ilk there. As a result I never made the trip south today. As for the comments on operation I relaying the comments from people I know who have attended. However I know for a fact this is not the only show that falls foul of layouts with little movement on them. I am not suggesting we should shunt trains at high speed but more often than not you can stand and watch a layout and see nothing at all move. Benjamin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted March 26, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 26, 2017 Sounds like I will be the first moaner or is that remoaner given the march in the centre of London. Why did the massive Freemo American model never seem to have any trains running - all that space, all those trains and I spent more time chatting to my wife on Messenger than watching trains. Eaton Gomery appeared to have electrical problems and I never saw a train move on Woodfield in three visits. Three Minories in three scales was interesting and surprisingly it was the N gauge version that performed best. Hope under Dinsmore, Canada Street and Much Murkle were enjoyable. Plenty of retail, picked up a couple more SR Maunsell ex LSWR coaches for £33 each and a couple of Oxford opens for £8 each and I wasn't intending on spending anything. If you're going tomorrow check your trains, it appears there is bustiution from Finsbury Park. Edit: the busitution ends at 07:20, I thought the tannoy said 7:20pm Was the Minories that ran best the 2mm scale one (or was there an N gauge one there as well)? If so, it is hardly surprising that it ran well. The people who built it are very good modellers and quite capable of building layouts that run very well indeed. I would have been very surprised if it didn't run well! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
railroadbill Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 (edited) Usually go on Saturday but went Sunday this year. The drive up was much easier than normal, didn't feel like I was in an episode of The Dukes of Hazzard. :-) We were so early we parked in one of the first of the Paddock car parks. Fewer people today than we were used to on previous visits, but I was told that yesterday was very busy. This did mean that we could see everything easily, particularly the tremendous Copenhagen Fields, now with working tram and underground station (well I couldn't remember them from last time!). Really liked the Minories themed layouts,showed how the idea worked well with different scales. Also the micro layout Victoria, which captured the flavour of a tucked away siding at the side of a large terminus, sort of thing you glimpse while waiting for the last train home. Some interesting and different scales (radio controlled gauge 3 for instance). Got some good advice about making buildings on one of the MRC stands. Spent 6 1/2 hours looking at high quality modelling on many layouts, came away with lots of ideas so a good day. Lots of useful traders for us, Mrs Railroadbill bought some trees and figures, I bought a couple of gear boxes, mini sockets and so on so we were both happy. And a quick run home. Sunday is the day to go, I now reckon. Well done, all those involved in organizing the show. ps thanks to richard brown for posting the vid and sharris for the pics, above, showed exhibition well imho pps really liked the UP gas turbine model with sound running on the freemo layout. Edited March 26, 2017 by railroadbill Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RANGERS Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 This was my first visit to Ally Pally, it generally falls on what was until recently always an awkward weekend workwise, but it didn't disappoint and I'm struggling to reconcile some of the comments about it. The balance of layout era/ location/ type will differ between any two shows or the same show in any two years, what you get is just that and even though my own interests aren't with US or European prototypes, I thought the balance was very good and the standards exceptional. I'd never been inside Ally Pally and it is a truly magnificent building in a stunning location, perhaps London's greatest hidden gem and certainly worthy of greater attention than many other better known buildings receive. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharris Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Good evening, Again we come down to the age old discussion about what is modern image? In my eyes I view it from around the 1990's onward's (then again is that slipping into an era of its own? I first came across the concept of 'modern image' when I was building my first railway as a child round about 1975. For me it hasn't shifted with the years, so my idea of modern image still starts in the mid 70s (that makes my modern image period almost twice as long as the grouping period!). I wonder if there are modellers older than me who consider the BR standard classes to be their modern image! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Was the Minories that ran best the 2mm scale one (or was there an N gauge one there as well)? If so, it is hardly surprising that it ran well. The people who built it are very good modellers and quite capable of building layouts that run very well indeed. I would have been very surprised if it didn't run well! N or 2mm it was operating faultlessly, with good layouts I tend not to focus on the actual gauge more the whole concept. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted March 26, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 26, 2017 The Saturday was too busy for my taste (more busy than previous years by a long chalk) so will probably move my preferred day to Sunday engineering works depending. Did not see some layouts as it was not physically possible to get anywhere near some of them whilst some traders, in particular the one by the wall selling the very nicely discounted Hornby (those who complain about rising prices have NOTHING to complain about anymore!!!) was a mass scrum although I did manage to battle through and net a Class 700 Black Motor for a very reasonable £65. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
garethashenden Posted March 26, 2017 Share Posted March 26, 2017 Just one picture; the operator's set on Copenhagen Fields 17 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluebell Model Railway Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) It was a good show went on the Saturday, crowds were not too bad, started to clear about 3pm I took a series of videos so if anyone didn't go, you can see a few below: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0mqxhZ6TkI Edited March 27, 2017 by Bluebell Model Railway 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alderson.eric.j Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 *** Got some good advice about making buildings on one of the MRC stands. *** Hi there, Thanks for your kind comments. Glad our explanations of the use of laser cut, cad-cut with the cameo & 3-D printing in railway modelling to build structures were useful to you. If you've got any further question, feel free to send me a message and, if I'm not able to answer, I'll forward it to my friend Jiffi (John Francis) who will then answer your questions (I'll act as translator, as his English is not yet as good as mine - he's working quite hard on it, still ;-) I think also I'll start a thread on building structures with those techniques, as I'm bound to built the Ingatestone station building for the OO layout at the MRC, as well as working on Five Arch Bridge Signal box and, later, other structures for Copenhagen Fields... Again thanks for your kind words, Eric and Jiffi. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffWinter Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 well I found it quite disappointing compared to pervious shows. Whilst there were some lovely layouts (for example, Towcester, Leysdown, Fen Drove, Blackwells Brewery, North Bridge, Kirkmellington, Kettlewell and others) there were some pretty crude and wasteful ones. Some layouts needed no introduction - Copenhagen Fields and Canada Road. I don't do continental stuff much but since there was so much of it, I had a look. Chelma Canyon and Prospect Point were very nicely modeled and were running well. I will get shot down on here but Crewelisle isn't a premier league exhibition layout but in fariness, it was running trains which some others seemed to struggle with. The Freemo American layout was a total waste of time, probably 150ft of running line and if you were lucky, you might see one train moving and a switcher dithering. Simply not good enough and the lack of spectators watching it all day tells its own story. I overhead one of the operators telling a member of the public that they had been robbed of 2ft of space by BRM/MRC and they didn't have enough operators to run it!!! Blinking Heck, it was the biggest layout in the show and to blame a missing 2ft board is ridiculous. If they can't get operators then why are they turning up to a major show where people pay a huge sum to see trains run. Lancaster Green Ayre looked like it was built by school kids in a class project, and not sure that would grace the conference league, scenery was unfinished, some places already showing signs of wear and damage and the station building had a 10 degree list. The less said about the catenary the better. Binns Road isn't my cup of tea but it drew a decent crowd and worked which some of the above should take lessons from. Come on MRC, your standards are usually so much higher. On the plus side, the weather was great and sitting outside in the sun with a pint whilst looking down over little London village and its pointy topped buildings was very relaxing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40F Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Good Morning all, I was going to make the trip down myself and have decided against it. Again I feel I am the only one passing on negative comments but from the information that my friends have provided who are operating Aldgate Hill & Norton Folgate, there is very little in the contemporary and modern image variety. One suggesting they thought it might be more of an american themed show that a British. I have to agree with Darius43 though on the fact of trains running, this is an issue that is now creeping into many shows, you can stand looking at layout and there be a complete lack of movement. Slightly off topic but this was one of the reasons Weaver Hill was build to make sure there was always something moving. Anyway enough from me, I shall await the full debriefon their return. Benjamin Did`nt they have GWR on the sides then Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40F Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) Hmm, so that's more than 25% (greater than one in four) were non-British layouts. I guess that is a little unusual and out of kilter with most UK shows but ultimately it's about the modelling and entertainment value overall. I didn't go so can't comment on that, but I might have been taken back by that sort of layout split - I certainly don't recall it being anything like that on previous years when I have visited. G It is a MODEL RAILWAY EXHIBITION and therefore should include models of ALL countries. This attitude towards Continental and USA layouts is pathetic Edited March 28, 2017 by 40F Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharris Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) It is a MODEL RAILWAY EXHIBITION there should include models of ALL countries. This attitude towards Continental and USA layouts is pathetic Quite so - I often enjoy the US models more than some of the UK ones. I think we're catching up now, but the American ones seem ahead of the game on sound effects, working cameos and general 'showmanship'. Having recently visited Prague and seen the giant model railway they have there (possibly the second largest in Europe after the German one?) it was interesting to see there was a Czech entry this year. Edited March 27, 2017 by sharris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post warbonnetuk Posted March 27, 2017 Popular Post Share Posted March 27, 2017 The Freemo American layout was a total waste of time, probably 150ft of running line and if you were lucky, you might see one train moving and a switcher dithering. Simply not good enough and the lack of spectators watching it all day tells its own story. I overhead one of the operators telling a member of the public that they had been robbed of 2ft of space by BRM/MRC and they didn't have enough operators to run it!!! Blinking Heck, it was the biggest layout in the show and to blame a missing 2ft board is ridiculous. If they can't get operators then why are they turning up to a major show where people pay a huge sum to see trains run. Dear Geoff As a member of the operating crew for Essex Belt Lines and Freemo I'd like to thank you for your constructive comments. For those who has a good look at the layout you would have noticed that the operators on the main circuit were talking to one of the crew who was operating a laptop with the track plan on it. That's because we were operating the layout under prototypical conditions using a dispatcher (bloke on laptop) to control the switchers (points) which also interlocked to the extensive signals. As you will appreciate this is not great at allowing trains to keep haring round at Mach 3 but does represent how a good proportion of mainline US railroads works. As for switchers puttering our aim was to run trains from the far end yard along the 72ft rear length doing switching (shunting) along the way so this wouldn't be 'a mile a minute' operation. Also from the list of layouts you name checked IIRC there was some shunter action there as well. But as you said yourself you dont really do continental..... As for the lack of crowds then you are right in that we, as US modellers, are a minority group and therefore I wouldnt have expected it to be 10 deep. For next year maybe Stoke Summit is still on the circuit? (I dont do BR steam much....) Can't comment on your overheard comment (!) but we did have a v minor issue on Sat morning when I arrived with my modules to go on the far end of the branch section that meant we just shortened the end yard 4ft to fit in the barriers - no biggie. While a number of folks have had the bravery to take to their keyboards to vent their indignation, I think I'm safe in saying that despite the early start on Friday and late home last night, not to mention the large investment in time and money over the last couple of years into the layout, we all had a great weekend (thanks Nick and team!!) and greatly appreciated the numerous positive comments and questions we got for the viewing public. We even had a couple of enquiries about future shows so keep your eyes peeled Well, back to real life........ 20 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talltim Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) Did`nt they have GWR on the sides thenLike this? http://www.railpictures.net/photo/599342/ Or even http://www.railpictures.net/photo/407259/ Edited March 27, 2017 by Talltim 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharris Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Lancaster Green Ayre looked like it was built by school kids in a class project, and not sure that would grace the conference league, scenery was unfinished, some places already showing signs of wear and damage and the station building had a 10 degree list. The less said about the catenary the better. I wouldn't say it was listing by that much! The station building did appear to be on a plinth to be incorporated into a yet-to-be-finished piece of scenery. Maybe it's not so common at the Festival of Railway Modelling, but it does seem common at other shows that often there are some exhibits clearly shown as 'work-in-progress' (aren't they always?!) so that's how I took it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 For those who has a good look at the layout you would have noticed that the operators on the main circuit were talking to one of the crew who was operating a laptop with the track plan on it. That's because we were operating the layout under prototypical conditions using a dispatcher (bloke on laptop) to control the switchers (points) which also interlocked to the extensive signals. As you will appreciate this is not great at allowing trains to keep haring round at Mach 3 but does represent how a good proportion of mainline US railroads works. As for switchers puttering our aim was to run trains from the far end yard along the 72ft rear length doing switching (shunting) along the way so this wouldn't be 'a mile a minute' operation. Also from the list of layouts you name checked IIRC there was some shunter action there as well. But as you said yourself you dont really do continental..... As for the lack of crowds then you are right in that we, as US modellers, are a minority group and therefore I wouldnt have expected it to be 10 deep. For next year maybe Stoke Summit is still on the circuit? (I dont do BR steam much....) It was mentioned elsewhere in this thread, this is more an operators layout than a spectator one - I remember when I first came to it that it seemed endless and was more in line with something you would see in America than the UK because of the size and scope of it. For crowd size it was never going to be ten deep like Copenhagen fields because there was simply so much of it to stand next to. Perhaps the size actually worked against it, I did find there wasn't a lot going on but then perhaps I was stood in the wrong place at the wrong time each time I stopped to gawp and couldn't see what movement there was - you don't usually find that on a model railway because they don't take up the real estate Freemo did. Copenhagen fields is probably the closest UK representation of a sprawling maze of lines - but it has two aces - the scale so you get a lot more in a small space and the numbers of running lines - at least 8 and trains were on circuits, stand there for more than 5 minutes and you would recognise it's the same trains on the circuits but you don't really notice it too much because of the scenics and the front operator shunting goods. This sort of running was never gong to happen on Freemo but equally it has to be recognised that at an exhibition that perhaps it needs to be operated for the benefit of the spectator over operational reality. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40F Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Like this? http://www.railpictures.net/photo/599342/ Or even http://www.railpictures.net/photo/407259/ Yes that proves that there is another GWR other than Brunel`s railroad. And yes it has been modelled Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
torikoos Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Dear Geoff As a member of the operating crew for Essex Belt Lines and Freemo I'd like to thank you for your constructive comments. For those who has a good look at the layout you would have noticed that the operators on the main circuit were talking to one of the crew who was operating a laptop with the track plan on it. That's because we were operating the layout under prototypical conditions using a dispatcher (bloke on laptop) to control the switchers (points) which also interlocked to the extensive signals. As you will appreciate this is not great at allowing trains to keep haring round at Mach 3 but does represent how a good proportion of mainline US railroads works. As for switchers puttering our aim was to run trains from the far end yard along the 72ft rear length doing switching (shunting) along the way so this wouldn't be 'a mile a minute' operation. Also from the list of layouts you name checked IIRC there was some shunter action there as well. But as you said yourself you dont really do continental..... Indeed, I much prefer prototypical operations at scale speeds, rather than aimless running around (or back and forth) of trains, which gets mindnumbingly dull in a very short space of time. The only time I do that at home is either when I'm running in a recently bought or serviced loco, or working on a bit of scenery, it is far more interesting to get trains to run with purpose, and educate the public about it in the meantime. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 It was mentioned elsewhere in this thread, this is more an operators layout than a spectator one - I remember when I first came to it that it seemed endless and was more in line with something you would see in America than the UK because of the size and scope of it. For crowd size it was never going to be ten deep like Copenhagen fields because there was simply so much of it to stand next to. Perhaps the size actually worked against it, I did find there wasn't a lot going on but then perhaps I was stood in the wrong place at the wrong time each time I stopped to gawp and couldn't see what movement there was - you don't usually find that on a model railway because they don't take up the real estate Freemo did. Copenhagen fields is probably the closest UK representation of a sprawling maze of lines - but it has two aces - the scale so you get a lot more in a small space and the numbers of running lines - at least 8 and trains were on circuits, stand there for more than 5 minutes and you would recognise it's the same trains on the circuits but you don't really notice it too much because of the scenics and the front operator shunting goods. This sort of running was never gong to happen on Freemo but equally it has to be recognised that at an exhibition that perhaps it needs to be operated for the benefit of the spectator over operational reality. Don't forget that modular modelling is a group activity that anyone can get involved in, any Show that represents the hobby shouldn't be polarized between Exhibitors who are invariably giving up their time (in many ways), Money, and Skill to produce a layout for the sole benefit of those who have paid to get in and therefore think they should be entertained or have the right to criticize most aspects of the show. And especially in London, where living space and personal transportation is at a premium so the one way to get involved outside of building a shoebox layout is modular modelling, where like minded people can enjoy their hobby, often at self-funded private events that don't have the distractions of having to perform to a baying crowd. I'm sure that the concept of realistic operation on a large modular layout is something that is broadly accepted by the punters, but it's a shame that in the UK it seems to be the preserve of North American outline modellers with just a few people attempting the same with a British theme. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 Don't forget that modular modelling is a group activity that anyone can get involved in, any Show that represents the hobby shouldn't be polarized between Exhibitors who are invariably giving up their time (in many ways), Money, and Skill to produce a layout for the sole benefit of those who have paid to get in and therefore think they should be entertained or have the right to criticize most aspects of the show. If I haven't paid £x to be entertained, then what have I paid for? I bought rail tickets to travel from Manchester, I paid an entrance fee and I bought from some of the many retailers there on the day - I expect something for all that and entertainment is the name of the game at an exhibition be it model railways, comicon or whatever else it may be that day. I don't want to see this become a get at Freemo thread, it was spectacular, all I have said is that it appears to have been run as an operator experience but that last weekend was a spectator experience and perhaps it could have been run with that in mind. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
long island jack Posted March 27, 2017 Share Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) One consolation about these "lets hate American/continental layouts! remarks is, it leaves the unwashed and rusk sack brigade alone!!! why are some people so blinkered, good modelling, is good modelling in any scale, some people need to wake up to the bigger world! on a plus note, i'll be traveling down from up North next year with my layout 59th and Rust, I can hear them shouting now" not another American layout!!!"(boxing gloves at the ready) Ray Edited April 1, 2017 by long island jack 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted March 27, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 27, 2017 (edited) One consolation about these "let hate American/continental layouts! remarks is, it leave the unwashed and rusk sack brigade alone!!! why are some people so blinkered, good modelling, is good modelling in any scale, some people need to wake up to the bigger world! on a plus note, i'll be traveling down from up North next year with my layout 59th and Rust, I can hear them shouting now" not another American layout!!!"(boxing gloves at the ready) Ray One consolation about these "let hate American/continental layouts! remarks is, it leave the unwashed and rusk sack brigade alone!!! why are some people so blinkered, good modelling, is good modelling in any scale, some people need to wake up to the bigger world! on a plus note, i'll be traveling down from up North next year with my layout 59th and Rust, I can hear them shouting now" not another American layout!!!"(boxing gloves at the ready) Ray That might make two of us subject to confirmation. This year was our Czech layout and yes we didn't have as many viewers as UK outline layouts at times with no one watching but other times we had viewers all along the barrier line. Wouldn't the hobby be boring if shows only had UK outline tail chasers but luckily ther is plenty of interest in US modelling as there are more US only shows than other foreign only rail shows in the U.K. Ally Pally is still a very good show to visit or exhibit at despite the hassle of getting there then in and out to set up and dismantle. Edited March 27, 2017 by roundhouse 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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