London Festival of Railway Modelling, Alexandra Palace, 25/26 March 2017

[torikoos]

If I haven't paid £x to be entertained, then what have I paid for?  I bought rail tickets to travel from Manchester, I paid an entrance fee and I bought from some of the many retailers there on the day - I expect something for all that and entertainment is the name of the game at an exhibition be it model railways, comicon or whatever else it may be that day.

 

I don't want to see this become a get at Freemo thread, it was spectacular, all I have said is that it appears to have been run as an operator experience but that last weekend was a spectator experience and perhaps it could have been run with that in mind.

Entertained, yes of course, but I'm sure that the Freemo layout's aim was to show how you can operate realistically. It may not be for everyone, but neither are the oval race tracks etc. Something for everyone, some things will inspire you, others leave you cold. I believe the purpose of shows like this is to show the people how varied the hobby is , not just show one aspect of it (i.e. the running of trains without real purpose , but solely for 'exhibition' purposes)...  

[Talltim]

Yes that proves that there is another GWR other than Brunel`s railroad. And yes it has been modelled 

There was also a Canadian one that went to London and Windsor, amongst other places

Edited March 27, 2017 by Talltim

[Parthia27]

well I found it quite disappointing compared to pervious shows. Whilst there were some lovely layouts (for example, Towcester, Leysdown, Fen Drove, Blackwells Brewery, North Bridge, Kirkmellington, Kettlewell and others) there were some pretty crude and wasteful ones. Some layouts needed no introduction - Copenhagen Fields and Canada Road.

 

I don't do continental stuff much but since there was so much of it, I had a look. Chelma Canyon and Prospect Point were very nicely modeled and were running well.

 

I will get shot down on here but Crewelisle isn't a premier league exhibition layout but in fariness, it was running trains which some others seemed to struggle with.

 

The Freemo American layout was a total waste of time, probably 150ft of running line and if you were lucky, you might see one train moving and a switcher dithering. Simply not good enough and the lack of spectators watching it all day tells its own story. I overhead one of the operators telling a member of the public that they had been robbed of 2ft of space by BRM/MRC and they didn't have enough operators to run it!!! Blinking Heck, it was the biggest layout in the show and to blame a missing 2ft board is ridiculous. If they can't get operators then why are they turning up to a major show where people pay a huge sum to see trains run.

 

Lancaster Green Ayre looked like it was built by school kids in a class project, and not sure that would grace the conference league, scenery was unfinished, some places already showing signs of wear and damage and the station building had a 10 degree list. The less said about the catenary the better.

 

Binns Road isn't my cup of tea but it drew a decent crowd and worked which some of the above should take lessons from.

 

Come on MRC, your standards are usually so much higher.

 

On the plus side, the weather was great and sitting outside in the sun with a pint whilst looking down over little London village and its pointy topped buildings was very relaxing.

If you thoroughly read the thread you would know that the US modular layout had a DCC fault which impeded running trains though I detect a dislike on your part for US layouts. That is fine, your views are your views but I say well done Essex Belt lines for making what must be a significant effort to get the layout to Ally Pally and set it up. Hopefully day 2 will give less problems than day one.

[Glorious NSE]

There was also a Canadian one that went to London and Windsor, amongst other places

1280px-Niagara_rail_2.jpg

The famed great falls on the Thames at Windsor there...

[long island jack]

Didn,t know there was great falls at Clifton,Bristol!!

[AndrewC]

GeoffWinter, on 27 Mar 2017 - 08:44, said:

well I found it quite disappointing compared to pervious shows. Whilst there were some lovely layouts (for example, Towcester, Leysdown, Fen Drove, Blackwells Brewery, North Bridge, Kirkmellington, Kettlewell and others) there were some pretty crude and wasteful ones. Some layouts needed no introduction - Copenhagen Fields and Canada Road.

 

Lancaster Green Ayre looked like it was built by school kids in a class project, and not sure that would grace the conference league, scenery was unfinished, some places already showing signs of wear and damage and the station building had a 10 degree list. The less said about the catenary the better.

 

What an utterly classless individual.

 

The exhibition is for all people of all abilities. Some by that definition will be more complete and of a higher modelling standard than others. Part of the idea behind the London Festival is to encourage people to give it a go. Being able to look at and talk to the builders of layouts of differing "quality" helps to introduce new comers. There are plenty of finescale exhibitions for those who want just that segment of the hobby. You may think a layout is below conference league, but to another, it shows something achievable as a first or even second attempt.

 

For those that expect "entertainment". What are you defining as entertainment? Is it just watching a toy train going around and around? Is it slow shunting operations? Is it engaging with the builder and operator to learn & share knowledge? Is it the demos? Or is it a bit of all of the above? I may be unusual but I really enjoy looking at the exceptions rather than the same old BLT no matter how amazing the scenery/stock is.

[sharris]

on a plus note, i'll be traveling down from up North next year with my layout 59th and Rust, I can hear them shouting now" not another American layout!!!"(boxing gloves at the ready)

 

Ray

 

That's a lovely urban model. I remember seeing it at St Albans a couple of years ago - I'll look forward to seeing it again. 

[Robatron86]

My two pennies. Until about 4 years ago, US or any foreign railway subject for that matter held no appeal. Now I am building my 4th US layout, and having a hard time resisting those lovely german steamers.

 

I think anyone who tries something different deserves to be applauded. As Ray said, good modelling is good modelling, regardless of time period, location or subject matter. The more variety the better. You never know, you might learn something new.

 

I don't think foreign layouts have reached the GWR BLT level of flooding the market just yet....

 

At the end of the day, just have some fun. It is a hobby, not an occupation.

[PaulRhB]

If I haven't paid £x to be entertained, then what have I paid for?  

 

entertainment is the name of the game at an exhibition be it model railways, comicon or whatever else it may be that day.

 

it was spectacular, all I have said is that it appears to have been run as an operator experience but that last weekend was a spectator experience and perhaps it could have been run with that in mind.

But how do you share this increasingly popular part of the hobby without a public showing? To be honest a large show like this where it is a small fraction of the floor space is the best way to do it without compromising the range of layouts on show.

I found my first contact with Freemo entertaining because I chatted to the guys operating it at a show then got involved via this forum.

 

Yes there needs to be entertaining running too but balancing people available to talk against operators is difficult. Do you not bother to show that aspect of the hobby? We held a meet in Merstham recently and I paid £100 out of my pocket for the hotel as did several others so we had twenty odd people operating. I doubt the MRC could justify paying accommodation for twenty people for one layout so they did it with a smaller crew.

 

Would you avoid the show purely because of that or was there enough to make it a good day out?

[sir douglas]

each to their own as they say, i get a bit bored with shows having mostly 4mm layouts and lots of tables of OO stock but i do enjoy a good quality layout in any scale.

 

On Green Ayre some teething troubles were had but we did get some good running on Sunday afternoon, i wont go into the opinions of others above or my own to save but i enjoyed the show and the bits of it got to see

[PenrithBeacon]

Indeed, I much prefer prototypical operations at scale speeds ...

The problem with this approach is that the exhibitors get into a groove where not a lot happens at least from the viewers (or customers) point of view.

 

As an alternative I would like to see a 'video' approach, one where the timetable is followed but the gaps in between the timetabled service are edited out. Not so starkly edited as to give the wrong impression, but enough to give a good viewing experience.

 

Not everyone goes to a model railway exhibition to be educated! I think a club which adopts that attitude may well find itself earning a poor reputation. If education is the intention then put on a seminar at the exhibition to explain the operating practices on the railway prototype, assuming the model has a prototype.

 

Regards

[298]

Don't forget that modular modelling is a group activity that anyone can get involved in, any Show that represents the hobby shouldn't be polarized between Exhibitors who are invariably giving up their time (in many ways), Money, and Skill to produce a layout for the sole benefit of those who have paid to get in and therefore think they should be entertained or have the right to criticize most aspects of the show. 

 

 

If I haven't paid £x to be entertained, then what have I paid for?  I bought rail tickets to travel from Manchester, I paid an entrance fee and I bought from some of the many retailers there on the day - I expect something for all that and entertainment is the name of the game at an exhibition be it model railways, comicon or whatever else it may be that day.

 

I don't want to see this become a get at Freemo thread, it was spectacular, all I have said is that it appears to have been run as an operator experience but that last weekend was a spectator experience and perhaps it could have been run with that in mind.

 

Of all of those expenditures, the entrance fee (like most shows) was probably the cheapest element, and was just one exhibit out of 40+ and hardly worth making a fuss about when other layouts mentioned here have been considered in the grander scheme.

 

And how else is a modular Freemo branch line supposed to be run then...? The concept has been understood at other events where people have Punters have spent a lot of time following the train around and watching it drop off and pick up cars as instructed. It sounds like the operating team were doing everything right and quickly resolved any issues. If someone doesn't understand that after all the planning, prototype research, building, etc. is done and expects it to be operated like Clapham Jn. then we all may aswell turn up with a Plywood Central trainset and spend all day rattling trains around.

[jamie92208]

As the owner of Lancaster (Green Ayre) can I just make few comments.

 

1) It's now 3pm on Monday. we worked 2 18 hours days and 1 15 hour day to put the layout up and run it and I still have 2 days work to put all the parts into their proper storage location. We are all tired but enjoyed the show.

 

2.) If you read the programme it is stated that it is an unfinished work in progress. However a lot of work has been done since the last outing in September.

 

3.) The comments about the overhead sound rather strange considering that all the structures are built from custom designed parts produced from the original blueprints that I have in my possession. Only one trial run of actual wiring (The bay platform with a short stretch of the up main) has been put up to test methods. The actual wire used is scale size and is difficult to see.

 

4.) Yes the scenery does show some signs of wear and tear and that was subject of discussion in the lorry during out 4 hour drive back up the M1.

 

5) Yes we had some running problems on the Saturday mainly due to the same bug that hit the Freemo layout, dry joints. Once 3 of them had been located and fixed running improved dramatically. For the first time we were regularly interchanging traffic between the Castle Branch and the main line and using the purpose built reversing section in the main fiddle yard to facilitate this.

 

During the show I talked to many visitors alongside the layout and personally got nothing but supportive comments.

 

I hope that those who saw the layout enjoyed it. Modelling a lost prototype location is not easy. The buildings are all scratch built and we have the necessary prototype information for most of the rest. The mounting board mock ups have actually served as memory prompts for people who are giving the information that we need. I would rather have a mock up than an inaccurate model.

 

Can I also pass on my thanks to the MRC and BRM for putting on the show and giving us a chance to come to the festival. My 12 year old great niece certainly appreciated being allowed to drive trains on Sunday.

 

Jamie

[grahame]

It is a MODEL RAILWAY EXHIBITION there should include models of ALL countries. This attitude towards Continental and USA layouts is pathetic

A silly comment IMO. Not all countries have railways to model and to have just one each would mean over 100 layouts.

 

G.

[steve W]

I couldn't make it this year, but I'm really disturbed by the negativity of some of the posters. Look what it says on the banner 'The London Festival of Railway Modelling'. Bog all about scale, gauge, shape, colour of train, or its represented location. There are no grounds for a 'disappointment refund' because what was going to be there was well advertised.

 

I couldn't go because this year I was exhibiting my 7ft micro of a British light railway in 4mm scale; about this time last year I was exhibiting a (part owned) 45 ft 1:20.3 scale US narrow gauge layout, in Germany. I've been modelling for over 50 years and there are some things I still cannot do, or do well; but one thing I have learnt is, that if you want to model well, there are good ides and transferable techniques in all scales and themes and on just about every layout you look at.

 

Open your eyes and appreciate what is front of you, it's not only the train going past (although that is fairly important.)

[Clearwater]

Although we didn't speak to Jamie and team, we saw they were having some problems around Saturday lunchtime so we left them to it and returned later.

 

To me, Lancaster is a great exhibition layout. Conceived on a scale that wouldn't fit in the largest room in your house, showing rolling stock from an era before most living memories and using bespoke buildings and stock that are not off the shelf. We enjoyed watching when we returned later and I'm sure we'll enjoy seeing it in the future as it develops.

 

Equally Crewlisle is an equally great exhibition layout. That could fit in most homes and does use a lot of readily available products. To me, it shows what a great, fun layout you can readily achieve with some perseverance. A "general interest" show has room for both as well as high end layouts such as Hope under Dinton, Much Murkle etc

 

 

I've never exhibited a layout. I wonder how many of those knocking have exhibition quality layouts themselves?

 

David

[chrisf]

well I found it quite disappointing compared to pervious shows. Whilst there were some lovely layouts (for example, Towcester, Leysdown, Fen Drove, Blackwells Brewery, North Bridge, Kirkmellington, Kettlewell and others) there were some pretty crude and wasteful ones. Some layouts needed no introduction - Copenhagen Fields and Canada Road.

 

I don't do continental stuff much but since there was so much of it, I had a look. Chelma Canyon and Prospect Point were very nicely modeled and were running well.

 

I will get shot down on here but Crewelisle isn't a premier league exhibition layout but in fariness, it was running trains which some others seemed to struggle with.

 

The Freemo American layout was a total waste of time, probably 150ft of running line and if you were lucky, you might see one train moving and a switcher dithering. Simply not good enough and the lack of spectators watching it all day tells its own story. I overhead one of the operators telling a member of the public that they had been robbed of 2ft of space by BRM/MRC and they didn't have enough operators to run it!!! Blinking Heck, it was the biggest layout in the show and to blame a missing 2ft board is ridiculous. If they can't get operators then why are they turning up to a major show where people pay a huge sum to see trains run.

 

Lancaster Green Ayre looked like it was built by school kids in a class project, and not sure that would grace the conference league, scenery was unfinished, some places already showing signs of wear and damage and the station building had a 10 degree list. The less said about the catenary the better.

 

Binns Road isn't my cup of tea but it drew a decent crowd and worked which some of the above should take lessons from.

 

Come on MRC, your standards are usually so much higher.

 

On the plus side, the weather was great and sitting outside in the sun with a pint whilst looking down over little London village and its pointy topped buildings was very relaxing.

 

There are those who do not have the manners of pigs and those who do.

 

Chris

[Joseph_Pestell]

People go to art galleries to be entertained. And, usually, nothing there moves at all.

 

I can enjoy the modelling on a layout or a diorama whether or not trains are running at frantic intervals. And it is possible to keep things moving on a shunting layout so long as it is well designed and allows at least a couple of operators to play at the same time.

[Talltim]

A silly comment IMO. Not all countries have railways to model and to have just one each would mean over 100 layouts.

 

G.

I think you may have mis-interpreted...

[40F]

A silly comment IMO. Not all countries have railways to model and to have just one each would mean over 100 layouts.

 

G.

 

 

That is why there are no models of those railways.

[John M Upton]

Moving away from the ongoing wailing and nashing of teeth for a moment, there was a chap with a stand near to the Hornby stand selling some rather nice looking laser cut bridge girders etc.

 

The guide doesn't seem to show this stand so I wondered if anyone had a name/website for him please?

[sharris]

That is why there are no models of those railways.

 

I have, however, seen a railway set on the moon of another planet. 

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/105061-cato-pass-sci-fi-model-railway/

[TEAMYAKIMA]

Having read all through this topic I just wanted to say that I thoroughly enjoyed my 6 hour visit on Saturday.

 

Which were the best layouts? 

 

Were there any layouts there?

 

I was so busy looking at trade stands and talking to old friends that I met at the show that I'm sorry to say that I really didn't have any time to look at any layouts.

 

And for those who dislike non-British layouts please be warned that my Chinese HO layout will be at Aly Paly soon, although probably after it's been to Warley and Bristol.

Edited March 27, 2017 by TEAMYAKIMA

[The Stationmaster]

When I stopped for  look at the Freemo set-up it wasn't running (understandably no from what has been posted here) but so what?  One look at that colliery branch (to use our vernacular) and you could instantly see how it would work and the 'entertainment' it alone would provide when things were underway - I enjoyed the chance to actually see it - whatever it was or wasn't doing.

 

Fact is that a bit of prior research would have revealed what layouts were likely to be there and if they didn't happen to wind your clock you could simply stay at home and dig the garden or watch tv; attendance was not compulsory.  I thought it was a good show, albeit 'London prices' (unavoidable) and a lot busier than in the past when I've visited on Saturday.  I didn't get to see every layout I'd like to have seen but because some were less crowded with onlookers I had a good look at some I might otherwise have not bothered with and was quite happy, even if they happened to be 'foreign'.  So what - they were model railways and they were, as it happens - to my railway oriented mind - being 'realistically operated'.  Some other folk might have not considered it 'realistic operation' - so what?

 

But overall, and despite not spending much, I thought it was a good show in a smashing venue with good trade support and an excellent range of layouts; plus some decent catering at unsurprising prices but offering reasonable value for money by 'London standards'.  I like going to Ally Pally even tho' happens to be more awkward to get to than the soul-less NEC 'barn' where the Warley show is held.  True some more local shows such as Basingstoke and Wycrail offer far better value for money in terms of the admission price and what you get for it - but then they aren't held in an expensive major London venue (and at least there wasn't snow on the ground this year).

[railroadbill]

I have, however, seen a railway set on the moon of another planet. 

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/105061-cato-pass-sci-fi-model-railway/

So have I.  It's brilliantly different, great fun and was attracting an audience of young teens, presumably warhammer etc fans, who probably wouldn't have been interested in GWR branchlines,  but might now get into  railway modelling in a different way.

Edited March 27, 2017 by railroadbill