London Festival of Railway Modelling, Alexandra Palace, 25/26 March 2017

[Ron Ron Ron]

The problem with the catenary was that some of the masts were visibly wonky .....

 

 

I don't think it helped that there appeared to be a lot of "wonkiness" on this layout.

Most of the OHLE masts, at least one signal mast (IIRC?) and I think it was one of the station buildings, were all leaning over.

It gave me the initial impression that nothing was straight.

 

Don't get me wrong here; I think that although it was obviously a "work in progress", there was a general look of slapdash and some of the boards looked a bit dog ear'ed.

So I wasn't surprised that I overheard some negative comments being made by a couple of adjacent observers.

Which is a great shame.

 

However, I'm sure Jamie and his team will take any adverse comments on the chin and hopefully we can look forward to seeing this layout in a more advance stage of development at future shows.

I can only wish Jamie and his helpers well in producing what might turn out to be a star turn at future shows.

 

 

On the general note of criticism of exhibition layouts; even though the tone of one or two may have come across as rather harsh, I think there is a general point to be made about the reaction to ANY criticism, no matter how polite or well intentioned.

There appears to be a "group think" that any adverse or critical comments should not be tolerated and that no matter whether if it's a polite and truthful personal opinion, or at the other extreme, a more hostile or venomous attack, the response treats all equally as nasty moaning or sniping.

 

Sorry guys, but standing on the sidelines, I can only interpret SOME of the responses to any critical posts, as thinly veiled attempts to close down any discussion that deviates from the accepted norms of praise (and on occasion backslapping).

A sort of railway modelling political correctness, if you will.

I don't think the playground jibes are helpful either. (e.g. "where's your layout" and "show us you do any better" etc, etc.)

 

Having said that, I agree that (normally) there should be no excuse for bad manners or an aggressive or dismissive tone when expressing ones disappointment with particular layouts or exhibitions.

I guess what I'm suggesting, in my rather cack-handed way, is that there should be even handedness on all sides and that honest opinions put over in a polite and civilised way, should be treated with a suitable level of respect.

 

If that sounded like a rant, then rant over.

 

Ron

President elect of the Armchair Modellers Society.

 

 

.

[roundhouse]

Something I should have done earlier (although I doubt they will ever see it) is to complement the site security staff I met who were unerringly helpful, friendly, humorous and extremely courteous. Even when we ended up in the hall early on the Sunday morning the eviction was done with good grace and style.

We were only talking about this earlier. Sometimes the security staff at such venues can be very unfriendly but this year they were all very helpfuland friendly.

[nickwood]

We were only talking about this earlier. Sometimes the security staff at such venues can be very unfriendly but this year they were all very helpfuland friendly.

Yes they were very friendly and helpful and it was unfortunate to see some of them getting verbal abuse from some other exhibitors / traders who were trying to get in to the Great Hall before their allocated time slot when they were asked to park up and wait. As for the idiot who parked his long wheelbase van diagonally across the exit ........

[Ian J.]

There really does seem to be a lot of snark about; really poorly thought through plain nasty comments from, it seems, an increasing number of people about anything and everything these days. People you'd expect better from; grown men with a malicious chip on each shoulder who are seemingly not happy unless they're trying to cause upset or just give vent to rather sad little perspectives.

 

It's bloody depressing some days; I've just read some pearlers on Facebook, Youtube is just toxic. Social media of any form is a platform which could be used for so much good but the bitter and small-minded bring it down to their level; only then are they happy in the environment when they've driven away those who have a healthier outlook to life.

 

I'm getting a couple of bottles from under the stairs and popping round a mates house to get some real-world respite from these asshats.

 

 

Ever since the Breakfast vote and Trumpton getting into Mary Whitehouse's knickers, it does seem as if some people feel their previously moderated viewpoints can be unshackled and they can just blarp on about whatever they want as if discrimination against anyone is now allowed. That might explain the recent upturn in the kind of s**t being shovelled on social media...

 

Regarding the show (and in fact any model railway show) I still like to see layouts running, even if not running fast. But I also go for looking at the scenics for inspiration, and to get ideas on operation.

Edited March 28, 2017 by Ian J.

[Darius43]

TrumpShouts_moretrains.jpg

The Donald would run lots of trains. And they would be big beautiful trains, bigly beautiful. But he wouldn't let you see them because they would be behind a wall. An amazing, beautiful, big wall. And he would get you to pay for that wall.

[2mmMark]

...and another thing...

 

Why is the Ally Pally show always in London ???

 

Well, St. Albans is now in Stevenage, so don't give up hope...

[jetmorgan]

Some photos of Teign House sidings

[jcm@gwr]

I went on the Sunday, drove down and took

advantage of the car-park & shuttle bus.

My only (minor) criticism was the lack of

signage to the pay desk area (which was

on the far left) in the foyer/Palm Room.

 

The rest of the show was good, with a

reasonable cross section of layouts and

traders, etc. I didn't spend as much as I

usually do, but hey-ho, I'll have more to

spend at Railex! 

[bourneagain]

I get this feeling that there are a minority group of so called Modellers who attend these Exhibitions only with the sole object to name and shame anything or anybody that they consider don`t come up to their own so called high expectations.  Be it the Layouts, Traders or the Catering.

So what, there were a couple of layouts that didn`t run as were expected, or didn`t look that perfect, there were loads of others that did. What they have to consider that there is only a small time frame from the layouts being assembled on a Friday evening to actually running on the Saturday morning to ensure that all the electrical connections and components are functioning as expected. And when they don`t, it can be quite a mammoth task to locate and repair the fault, even more daunting with having dozens of eyes staring all waiting for something to happen. That’s not even considering if any of the normal operators go sick or can`t attend for personal reasons at the last minute and substitutes have to be found. Don` t you think that’s it`s enjoyable for the layout owner or operators to be in this situation where they layout is not performing to its full potential?  

I would like to bet that not one of these moaning modellers took the time to vent their anger directly at the layout operators at the time, for the shortfall in their layouts performance, but are more than happy to do so via social media from the safety and comfort of their armchairs.

Will they be going to the next exhibition, some say they won`t but of course they will, for many it`s the only enjoyment they get looking for and highlighting the faults. Most Exhibitions Managers will accept constructive criticism of their running of an Exhibition, but I can`t see how they can be held responsible if one or more of the layouts they`re booked doesn`t come up to expectations and doesn’t perform as it should. Remember its exhibitions that keep our hobby alive, without this public showcase our hobby will die. With all their faults you have got to praise and thank Warners and their Exhibition Team for their willingness to put on these 3 large exhibitions every year. Except for Warley, how many other exhibitions have this high number of layouts on show? How many exhibitions has the so called market leader (RM / PECO) put on since their formation in 1949? I believe the answer is NONE. Yes they have been a Sponsor to many exhibitions, but they have never taken the risk to actually put on one themselves and probably never will.  

So Andy have that large drink to a job well done, out of the 1000`s that came and enjoyed themselves and never even noticed these so called shortcomings, you will probably count on one hand the ones that say they were left disappointed.

[Trainshed Terry]

That sounds like a good plan, maybe they could try one in the Midlands and one in the North, I think there are decent venues in Peterborough and Doncaster for them to try :-)

 

 There are shows held at "Doncaster Race Course" which is held in Febuary, and at The East of England Show Ground in Peterborough https://www.world-of-railways.co.uk/shows/show/the-national-festival-of-railway-modelling"

 

I hope that helps.

[jamie92208]

As the owner of the layout that's being discussed namely Lancaster (Green Ayre) perhaps I can reply to some of the points.

 

Yes some of the OHLE masts have got out of kilter, one got damaged when we were unpacking the layout, at least none of them got broken as I have run out of the etches for the straps at the top of the masts. However it has become obvious that since we last put the boards up some of them have broken free from their fixings. Part of this is due to the stresses of manhandling the crates from storage to the church where we load the lorry and then into the lorry, out again at the venue before erecting the layout. All of these will be worked on before Warley. If I manage to get the point rodding installed in certain areas then more wiring will be erected.

 

One commentator made remarks about trains being urged on by hand to enter the fiddle yard and that it could obviously have been fixed in a few minutes. I just wish that I had his expertise. I spent about 90 minutes in total during the weekend underneath that particular area with a meter and a soldering iron, and despite having designed and installed the wiring could not fix the problem. At about lunchtime on Sunday four of the five Up Yard (inner) sidings went dead. 2 members of the team had spent an hour working on the track in the area to improve the running. After talking to the operators we came up with a plan to keep more than one train running. We decided to put three short trains on the remaining track and then when possible to run the longer trains knowing that they would have to be hand shunted into the yard. We all felt that this was better than not running on the Up Main. Those boards are now in a late friends chicken shed and will shortly be erected and tested to solve the problem.

 

The comments about the chance to test run before the show are very pertinent. We didn't, most of us are retired, I am one of the younger ones at 64. We were up at about 6am and started loading the lorry before 8. Due to a speed limited lorry and heavy traffic we got to the Palace at 1.30pm. By 6.30pm everyone was very tired and the layout was up but we hadn't had time to do any testing. It then took over an hour to get to the hotel to find that our table reservation had been lost. We did sit down to eat just after 8pm. Yes I would have loved to have done some testing but the welfare of the team does I think come first. In fact during the journey home we have decided to alter the order of the set up so that 2 members of the team can start locos circulating while the rest of us continue with the lighting rig and buildings etc.

 

Much testing and work will be done over the coming months. More buildings will be finished and I can guarantee that the masts won't be wonky. Please come and see us at our three remaining shows in this country and feel free to talk to us. I do respond to comments and take them on board. You might even get handed a controller and be given a go.

 

Jamie

Edited March 28, 2017 by jamie92208

[RANGERS]

I get this feeling that there are a minority group of so called Modellers who attend these Exhibitions only with the sole object to name and shame anything or anybody that they consider don`t come up to their own so called high expectations.  Be it the Layouts, Traders or the Catering.

So what, there were a couple of layouts that didn`t run as were expected, or didn`t look that perfect, there were loads of others that did. What they have to consider that there is only a small time frame from the layouts being assembled on a Friday evening to actually running on the Saturday morning to ensure that all the electrical connections and components are functioning as expected. And when they don`t, it can be quite a mammoth task to locate and repair the fault, even more daunting with having dozens of eyes staring all waiting for something to happen. That’s not even considering if any of the normal operators go sick or can`t attend for personal reasons at the last minute and substitutes have to be found. Don` t you think that’s it`s enjoyable for the layout owner or operators to be in this situation where they layout is not performing to its full potential?  

I would like to bet that not one of these moaning modellers took the time to vent their anger directly at the layout operators at the time, for the shortfall in their layouts performance, but are more than happy to do so via social media from the safety and comfort of their armchairs.

Will they be going to the next exhibition, some say they won`t but of course they will, for many it`s the only enjoyment they get looking for and highlighting the faults. Most Exhibitions Managers will accept constructive criticism of their running of an Exhibition, but I can`t see how they can be held responsible if one or more of the layouts they`re booked doesn`t come up to expectations and doesn’t perform as it should. Remember its exhibitions that keep our hobby alive, without this public showcase our hobby will die. With all their faults you have got to praise and thank Warners and their Exhibition Team for their willingness to put on these 3 large exhibitions every year. Except for Warley, how many other exhibitions have this high number of layouts on show? How many exhibitions has the so called market leader (RM / PECO) put on since their formation in 1949? I believe the answer is NONE. Yes they have been a Sponsor to many exhibitions, but they have never taken the risk to actually put on one themselves and probably never will.  

So Andy have that large drink to a job well done, out of the 1000`s that came and enjoyed themselves and never even noticed these so called shortcomings, you will probably count on one hand the ones that say they were left disappointed.

 

I fail to see what Peco has to do with the lively debate going on here. Its wholly unfair to criticise a business which has done a great deal to further the cause of the hobby, running shows isn't their business but taking huge risks in developing products, the cost of which is far in excess of those attached to a show, most definitely is and they do this pretty well.  As mentioned, their sponsorships also underwrite a substantial proportion of the costs of club shows around the country which removes a sizeable proportion of the risk they would have to stand, quite probably ensuring those shows take place.

 

Warners are a commercial organisation who have a vested interest in this for their business, thats not meant as a criticism, its just a fact, and it has to be said, they did Ally Pally particularly well (never been to either of the others so can't comment on those).

[Red Devil]

Didn't go....but it seems to have changed to a 'general exhibition' thread....

 

I think some comments way over the top but here's a thought, you can have my layout fully professionally manned operating without fault any time you want....but it'll cost you my hourly rate for approx 4-5 working days (prep time, loading, travel, setting up, and then the show, plus all the rest to return home...) 

 

So how much will the ticket price be then? Yeah right, never going to happen so 'things' will go wrong....pretty much every exhibitor's been there, do you think anyone sets off with the intention of having a 'bad show'?

 

I can understand some gripes but c'mon, what do you want? Seems some want Dom Perignon at Pomagne prices, most exhibitions are fairly cheap entertainment and that is primarily down to those pretty much giving up their time for free. Singling out stuff you don't like is not the way to go.....sometimes the old adage seems to work....'if you can't say anything good.........'

[john new]

One other thing, not previously mentioned, that went wrong for exhibitors and traders was the unexpected switching off by the Ally Pally organisers, not Warners, of the wi-fi. This service is something you expect to be available at a major exhibition venue and which HM Govt is pumping £millions into making more accessible across the UK precisely to assist traders to trade over the internet. I hope Warners are seeking some compensation and an assurance it won't happen again.

 

Our SLS stand is not a heavy user of the internet at shows but even we were compromised as:-

• we lost the laptop link to our web-site for searching the photo-prints and library lists catalogue (we use FreeFind) so had to use the hefty file of manual copies for the photo lists and team memory.
• lost the internet search facility to assist in answering any queries the public asked that the crew weren't sure of.

More significantly other traders were unable to use their internet linked card terminals.

Edited March 28, 2017 by john new

[john new]

Bourneagain said "Except for Warley, how many other exhibitions have this high number of layouts on show?"

 

I think we run it close at York even if not equalling it. 

[Bomag]

Not having been to AP this year I cannot comment on whether trains were running. But in previous exhibitions the gripe is good looking layouts which should be able to be worked easily enough to keep trains running but which, for whatever reason are not operated to the potential of the Layout. I would not expect a single point micro-layout to have something running regularly but there are the 'usual suspects' where the operators may not have the inclination (or ability) to get the best out of a layout. Having helped operate a couple of layouts in the 1990's both owners made it clear that our task was to concentrate on operating the layout first and to participate in what we would now call 'banter' being very much secondary. There was always one person 'spare' to both look around the exhibition and to get the drinks in. Both layouts looked good but were also designed to facilitate providing a good 'show'.

 

In terms of American and GW layouts, owners have my support in bringing them to exhibitions as long I am allowed to walk straight past them. It's the layouts which are in the areas I am interested in but which disappoint which put me off going to more exhibitions.     

[Talltim]

It would be hard to move Ally Pally form the top of the hill it is currently sitting on .. .sorry but couldn't resist

It's easier to move it downhill than to put it back...

[bertiedog]

I  cannot understand some of the criticisms here about a very fine show, things happen, things go wrong, and there is a big difference between comment, constructive criticisms, and complaints, of which I for one found none that affected my visit. No show is perfect and it should be fair to comment on issues major or minor, but a few comments on here are very partisan, but to each his own.

[Pacific231G]

 

I have worked in a model shop/supplier during the last twelve months and there is a definite downturn in the amount of young people embarking within the model railways side of the business.

Not surprising if the hobby seems full of miserable old gits who like nothing better than to attack one another's efforts. Who'd want to join those ranks.

 

The funny thing is that you don't seem to get nearly so much negativity from the more specialist shows whether it's ExpoEM or ExpoNG where there seems to be far more emphasis on talking to layout builders and other modellers than on just watching trains moving. I may be wrong but also get the impression that the other modelling hobbies are far less infected with this negativity which is a shame because our hobby encompasses such a wide range of interesting activities from studying architecture and trees to  miniature engineering and the construction of timetables.    

 

I'm not actually sure what proportion of the visitors to a show like Ally Pally are the "general public" but suspect it's a fairly small minority, probably fewer in proportion than a typical local club show, so what it should be giving is a chance to meet other modellers and to see and discuss other ways of doing things. What I personally got from Ally Pally this year, and it was the first for some years when I wasn't on a society stand so could take my time, was some great ideas on lightweight baseboards, spending a decent amount of time watching and learning about weathering techniques (on the DEMU stand) and having a far closer look at 00 live steam than I've done before something I'm not interested in engaging in but still found fascinating - especially as the inventor was there. 

Edited March 29, 2017 by Pacific231G

[alderson.eric.j]

I'm going to bring a 'slap' button in soon.

Nah... Better go "Daffy Commando" style : A goid heavy hamler down the bonnet with the characteristic "Schultz" barked by the eagle-offizier ;-)

 

In fact I never answer those kind oh "hate-msg"... Morons are best answered by silence ;-)

[Darius43]

Hmm...make one comment about wanting to see model trains running at a model railway exhibition and I am called a miserable old git, a moron and Donald Trump.

 

What a wonderful world the internet is.

 

Darius

[black and decker boy]

There are shows held at "Doncaster Race Course" which is held in Febuary, and at The East of England Show Ground in Peterborough https://www.world-of-railways.co.uk/shows/show/the-national-festival-of-railway-modelling"

 

I hope that helps.

I know, I've exhibited at them.

 

My comment was a tongue in cheek reply to another tongue in cheek post......

[Guest]

What a wonderful world the internet is.

 

Indeed. You can get cheap toilet rolls in bulk, hundreds of emails each day encouraging you to buy things you never knew you didn't want and the chance to peruse potential brides from far-flung corners of the globe... I'd be lost without it. Marvellous!

[RANGERS]

When does the Ally Pally 2018 thread start?

[ELTEL]

Bourneagain said "Except for Warley, how many other exhibitions have this high number of layouts on show?"

 

I think we run it close at York even if not equalling it.

 

Stafford